Firestorm of controversy,...30WCF vs 32 Win Spl

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:54 am

Ok, lets get all the real issues out in the open boys. Which is superior, 30WCF, or the hot rod 32 Winchester Special. We all know that the greater diameter of the 32 Spl has greater slap down effect, and is more powerful (by a good 75 or 100 fps), so why is the old 30 WCF hanging on all this time? Is it the higher sectional density that some upstarts claim for the small 30 cal round? Or the higher ballistics coeficient? I just don't get it.

nralover · Post by **nralover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:02 am

In my humble opinion- there isn't enough of a difference to really matter. Either round would knock a deer flat.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:11 am

Aw come on,...you arent looking closely enough at this. This was the topic of great debates back in the early 1900's. My next great topic will be whether round or octagon barrels are more accurate.

I sure miss all those early 1900's outdoors and shooting magazines that an old friend let me read a few years ago.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:28 am

There are 30 cal spitzers that can be used to turn your 30-30 into a flatter shooting 2 shot rifle. I don't know if there are 32 cal bullets that will expand at 32 Win Spl velocities. One practical question: would reboring a worn out or pitted 30-30 barrel to 32 spl breath new life into an old gun or should it just be rebarrelled? I think the 32 Win Spl is the the answer to 38-55 shooters who couldn't quite come to grips with making the move to the smaller 30 cal.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:43 am

For sure the .32 is better in the same way the .38-55 is better than both of them. In most cases, you're going to stick with the 170 gr. FP which is about what the .30 WCF started with BC wise with the 160-165 gr. bullets AND you can move it faster albeit with a grain or two more powder. (30 gr. in the .30 WCF and 32 gr. in the .32 WS) All the old-timers knew the .32 was more gun but most couldn't handle it and shot the .30 WCF instead. Honest.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:54 am

Anyone with any firearms knowledge knows that the 32 WS blows away the 30-30.

I know this to be true because I own one.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:01 am

Tastes Great!

Less Filling!

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:04 am

RKrodle wrote:Anyone with any firearms knowledge knows that the 32 WS blows away the 30-30. I know this to be true because I own one.

OK! Now we're getting some good discussion going! Nothing like some good opinion to add to the topic.

"All the old-timers knew the .32 was more gun but most couldn't handle it and shot the .30 WCF instead."

Good point Hobie. So you're saying that real men shoot the 32 Spl, and the others shoot the 30 WCF?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:11 am

I think I'll post a new thread: the .280 Rem is far superior to the .270 Win...

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:21 am

Malamute wrote:.. Which is superior, 30WCF, or the hot rod 32 Winchester Special. ...

When one of the gun companies finally has the gumption to bring out a levergun in .50BMG, the .32 Spl will be finished for sure.

Jack

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:23 am

Malamute wrote:"All the old-timers knew the .32 was more gun but most couldn't handle it and shot the .30 WCF instead."

Good point Hobie. So you're saying that real men shoot the 32 Spl, and the others shoot the 30 WCF?

Some of those gentlemen thought so and would be quick to give voice to that opinion. Their deer died quicker and so forth. They were unanimous in their opinion...

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:24 am

O.S.O.K. wrote:I think I'll post a new thread: the .280 Rem is far superior to the .270 Win...

You limit that to the BLR or I'll zap the topic...

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:28 am

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:55 am

What RKrodle said + 2

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:03 pm

None of them hold a candle to the .32-40.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:07 pm

Griff wrote:None of them hold a candle to the .32-40.

What Griff said.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:14 pm

Malamute wrote:Aw come on,...you arent looking closely enough at this. This was the topic of great debates back in the early 1900's. My next great topic will be whether round or octagon barrels are more accurate.

Octagon. Hands down, not even worthy of discussion!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:47 pm

One of them shoots a lot flatter but I ain't gonna start anything by sayin' which one.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:51 pm

Everybody knows the 30-30 shoots "harder" than a 32 Special. That is why the 32 Special faded out. No one likes "soft" shooting rounds.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:45 pm

The correct answer is: they're BOTH better. Of course.

It's like the old tired troller radio talk:

Whatcha catching 'em on?
Superiors.
Well I'm using CatchMors, so why aren't I catching more?
Cause I'm using Superiors.

On a really mean day this can go on for a long time. You can exhaust a lot of airtime waiting for the fish to bite.....

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:55 pm

I' ll tell ya what, my 32 WinSpec shoots 200 grain cast .323 (8mm) sized to .321 just fine (weight drops to 188 grains though) and I'll betcha it has a heck of alot more wallop than my 165 grain cast 7.62 sized to .309's that I shoot out of my .30-30. But, shoot'n those spitzer Mosin's cast out of that Lee mould are extremely accurate. Going to try 'em either today or tomorrow for the Ranch Dog Postal.

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:49 pm

25-35 The original flatshooting wizzbang!!!

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:36 pm

Everyone knows the .32 sp is at least twice as powerfull as the .30-30 and kills like a thunder bolt.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:02 pm

I know this was started in jest but I find the cussing/discussing of the two rounds interesting.

I cut my teeth on the .30-30 Win 94 but never knew the .32WS existed until I found this forum. Same for the .35 Remington and .38-55 come to think of it...

I figure if I can kill'em dead with a .30-30 in the Texas scrub (50-75yds max range) I don't NEED to step up to the .32WS or .35 Rem. Yet the .35 seems to call me, especially in the 336 format....

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:11 pm

Yeah, but how does it do on feral cats????

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:25 pm

In the woods, lakes, and mountains of rural Amercia, the 35 Remington has been
proving it's superiority over weedy, small-bore, flash-in-the-pan cartridges like
the 30 WCF and (the clearly superior but in no way close to the 35 Rem) 32 Special
since 1906. Men of taste and distinction have known this nearly since the inception of
gunpowder......

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:02 am

NonPCnraRN wrote:There are 30 cal spitzers that can be used to turn your 30-30 into a flatter shooting 2 shot rifle . . .

One of the reasons why the Savage 340/840 etc., bolt-action rifles in 30-30 are so hard to come by in PA, and why they are priced so high.

Noah

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:26 am

Lefty Dude wrote:
Griff wrote:None of them hold a candle to the .32-40.

What Griff said.

+1!I guess there wasn't enough real men that could handle the 32-40

!

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:24 pm

This my friend Bill H. who is an avid Pennsylvania deer hunter. His carbine is an early 1950's era 32 Special. Bill has clobbered many white tails and black bears with this Winchester. Bill will tell anyone that will listen that his 32 hits harder than any 30-30. Yet he has never owned or hunted with a 30-30. This fact is irrelevant to Bill.

I've had great luck with my 30-30 carbine(s) for several decades. If 30-30 was a wounder, it would've been traded off long ago. But it kills quite well, indeed.

I've always felt that if a hunter wants to shoot big holes in deer at typical woods ranges, he should look no farther than 44MAG with hollow tipped bullets.

TR

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:17 am

t.r. wrote:
This my friend Bill H. who is an avid Pennsylvania deer hunter. His carbine is an early 1950's era 32 Special. Bill has clobbered many white tails and black bears with this Winchester. Bill will tell anyone that will listen that his 32 hits harder than any 30-30. Yet he has never owned or hunted with a 30-30. This fact is irrelevant to Bill.

I've had great luck with my 30-30 carbine(s) for several decades. If 30-30 was a wounder, it would've been traded off long ago. But it kills quite well, indeed.

I've always felt that if a hunter wants to shoot big holes in deer at typical woods ranges, he should look no farther than 44MAG with hollow tipped bullets.

TR

OK, you can see from the picture that the .32 Specials just bounced off that deer and he had to hang it to kill it. No bullet hole and a noose around the neck. He would not have these problems with a .30-30!

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:24 am

claybob86 wrote:

OK, you can see from the picture that the .32 Specials just bounced off that deer and he had to hang it to kill it. No bullet hole and a noose around the neck. He would not have these problems with a .30-30!

Poor Bill is so depressed that his .32 Specials bounced off that he's...

Seriously, if he'd used a .32 ACP that deer would have flipped 2 times and field dressed itself.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:36 am

.25-35 Win. Big bore .30 and .32 cals are for poofs!

Seriously though.... .30-30 vs. .32 Win Special.... 170 grain bullets, .013 difference in diameter, and maybe 100 fps difference in velocity (though it looks like BL-C(2) will push a 170 grain bullet out of a .30-30 just about as fast and anything will push a 170 grain bullet out of a .32 Win Special). Sound samey same to me.

~Michael

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:53 am

Yer all wrong. The 375 Win is the best cartridge that starts with .3! It is the 375 Win using 38-55 brass and 300 gr boolits!

.30, .32 or .35, PALEEZE!

Anything bigger will start with a .4!

How's that for stirring the pot?

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:12 am

This topic got me to thinking.....appropriate warning here. Could it be that the 32 died out because it was too close in diameter to the German 8mm and the 30 was just considered more American in nature? I'm thinking back to Teddy Roosevelt's charge up San Juan Hill with the 30-40 Krag on one side against the 8mm Mauser.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:38 am

I'm not sure I'd be able to handle the increased recoil of the 32 Win Spl, what with its heavier bullet and all. I think I'll stick with the tamer 30-30. A fellow can't be too careful, you know. On the other hand, that big bore of the 32 Win Spl looks like it would bust brush way better than the small bore 30-30. Hmmmmmmm. Tough decision, tough decision. By gum, this may just be too hot of a topic for me to handle.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:42 am

Jayhawker wrote:This topic got me to thinking.....appropriate warning here. Could it be that the 32 died out because it was too close in diameter to the German 8mm and the 30 was just considered more American in nature? I'm thinking back to Teddy Roosevelt's charge up San Juan Hill with the 30-40 Krag on one side against the 8mm Mauser.

7mm Spanish Mauser (aka 7x57).

I don't know. The .32 was the "gunny's" choice around here. The .30-30s were for regular Joes...

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:14 am

Jayhawker wrote:This topic got me to thinking.....appropriate warning here. Could it be that the 32 died out because it was too close in diameter to the German 8mm and the 30 was just considered more American in nature?

Well, other than the .45, there's no other caliber more American than the .30 cal. But, the .32 WS made it to the 1970s as a factory chambering, so I don't think you can blame Mausers or Germany for it's down fall.

The .32 WS went away for the same reasons the .25-35, .32-40 and .38-55 did, they don't kill deer any better than the cartidge that is synonymous for leverguns with American public, the .30-30 Win.

~Michael

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:33 pm

Malamute wrote:Aw come on,...you arent looking closely enough at this. This was the topic of great debates back in the early 1900's. My next great topic will be whether round or octagon barrels are more accurate.

You are missing out on the best arguments of all...

Red or Blue ticking, and whether or not the stripes must go paralell or perpendicular to the sight axis...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:46 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
Malamute wrote:Aw come on,...you arent looking closely enough at this. This was the topic of great debates back in the early 1900's. My next great topic will be whether round or octagon barrels are more accurate.
You are missing out on the best arguments of all...

Red or Blue ticking, and whether or not the stripes must go paralell or perpendicular to the sight axis...

No stripes, why introduce a dyed thread into yer patchin'. Are ye sure it's compatible w/yer lube? Or do you only spit-lube?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:54 pm

Griff wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
Malamute wrote:Aw come on,...you arent looking closely enough at this. This was the topic of great debates back in the early 1900's. My next great topic will be whether round or octagon barrels are more accurate.
You are missing out on the best arguments of all...

Red or Blue ticking, and whether or not the stripes must go paralell or perpendicular to the sight axis...
No stripes, why introduce a dyed thread into yer patchin'. Are ye sure it's compatible w/yer lube? Or do you only spit-lube?

I only spit lube dry patch strips if I've been drinking whisky. Keeps the bore cleaner. Otherwise it's b'argrease & beeswax soaked into the patch strip.

And I always cut at the crown, never pre-cut.

Bloodhound · Post by **Bloodhound** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:48 pm

Did I miss something...some of you keep saying the .32 died out...Mine is alive and well, and eating ammo like a horse!

30-30 is an Ok round...but the .32 well now thats a manly man's rifle!

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:06 pm

So then is the 30-30 for girly men?

Big K · Post by **Big K** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:05 pm

I was in an unfortunate hunting accident when I was 18 on the last day of Pa. deer season and can say from experience that even though a 32 Special dosen't kill very well, it does indeed hurt and the hole it puts in you does leak..I sure am glad the guy wasn't shooting an '06 or a 270, perhaps I'd be playing a harp right now.

Bloodhound · Post by **Bloodhound** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:17 am

Don't get me wrong....the 30-30 makes a nice coyote gun...

Its a mans rifle for sure...but the .32.....well now that just extra special

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:45 am

i dont think there is much diffrence betwen the to rounds ?????
iv got 2 30-30s a ranger and a trapper the trapper is the go to gun

but i have been looking for 32spl for a long time dont see them for sale here very often see ammo
for sale all the time thow ????

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:38 am

Big K wrote:I was in an unfortunate hunting accident when I was 18 on the last day of Pa. deer season and can say from experience that even though a 32 Special dosen't kill very well, it does indeed hurt and the hole it puts in you does leak..I sure am glad the guy wasn't shooting an '06 or a 270, perhaps I'd be playing a harp right now.

WE do well to be reminded of safety. Perhaps you could give us the whole story including the aftermath for you. Might catch a lot of attention and save some one of us by making us pay attention.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:16 am

Hobie wrote:
Big K wrote:I was in an unfortunate hunting accident when I was 18 on the last day of Pa. deer season and can say from experience that even though a 32 Special dosen't kill very well, it does indeed hurt and the hole it puts in you does leak..I sure am glad the guy wasn't shooting an '06 or a 270, perhaps I'd be playing a harp right now.
WE do well to be reminded of safety. Perhaps you could give us the whole story including the aftermath for you. Might catch a lot of attention and save some one of us by making us pay attention.

+1

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:24 pm

No controversy around here...
I have them both....and like them both too!
They pretty much do the same job....
one make a little bigger hole....thats all

Scott Young · Post by **Scott Young** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:47 pm

as i understand it and i may be wrong, but i will hear nothing of it. the 32 winchester was more special than the plain ole 30 winchester. it was made for real men who depended on real guns to survive. most men couldn't afford the 32 and settled on second best and that is why the .30-30 survived longer with a greater following. it was priced down and toned down for the general masses. that is why you continuously read on forums about the sufficiency of the .30-30. they have to keep reassuring themselves that they have enough gun. when has the 32 crowd ever touted such??

i must confess though to loving both sisters equally. i just had to add fuel to the fire some.

Big K · Post by **Big K** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:58 pm

To make a long story short, I was caught in the line of fire beyond where a hunter was taking a shot at a running red fox (legal at the time)...The slug hit me low in the chest, coursed through the edge of my right lung and stopped in the back of my rib cage..Spun me right around and felt like someone kicked me in the chest...They cut me open from under my right armpit to the middle of my chest, as well as cutting two drain holes low in my side where they inserted two plastic tubes which led to a jug along side my bed.Lucky I had about six inches of clothing on that day(Freezing weather)..They found the bullets jacket in my long underwear later and gave me the remainder of the slug from my body in a test tube...It was covered with threads from the fabrics of everything I wore that day .....I still have those clothes with the bullet hole in them...The tee-shirt is perhaps the most graphic...I can't even stand to look at it!...Way too close of a call...The rifle was a pre-64 Model 94 in 32 Special.....I almost loaned the guy my 270 that day.

As far as safety, it's not always possible to see what's beyond your target in a wooded area.I've never held a grudge against the guy and we are still friends even though I seldom see him.Besides, he probably still lives with this.