More Range Report on XLR 444 with crooked sights - 3rd shoot

[AJMD429]

I took my crooked-sight XLR http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=12887 to the range finally, and shot three rounds of Remington factory 240 grain at fifty yards off a bench with a 36x scope. Here's the first 3 shot group (first shots ever out of this gun since it left factory):



So I de-tensioned the magazine tube dovetail, and a few days later shot these groups. The first shot of the first group was the high one on the right, and I will forgive that one as the gun's 'settling in' after being worked on. After scope adjustment I shot the second three shot group seen in the middle of the target.



I can't say I'm depressed over them, but I can't say I'm impressed, either...

The dovetail was really tight and I did loosen it up some with a file, but the OTHER thing going on was that the magazine tube's natural 'hang' was to be about 0.3" away from the barrel, so when the anchor screw was tightened snug, there was a good tug up on the magazine (and down on the barrel) relative to somewhere on the forend or forend cap (cap doesn't seem to hit the magazine tube though - lots of clearance). What I did was to put a rubber filler washer inside the hollow of the magazine end cap so the stud on the dovetail bottoms out on it enabling the screw to 'snug' with the magazine down in it's less-stressed position.

I think next I'll remove the tube and forend entirely and shoot (unsure where to rest the front of the gun in that scenario). I'm betting I need to either replace the rubber spacer I put in with a metal one, for less 'bounce' (it doesn't feel at all bouncy to squeeze by hand though), or rasp off the forend where it touches the barrel.

Of note the inside of the front of the forend had lots of splintering from the wood milling process, and some of them are over an inch long and angle away from the tube channel so they touch the magazine.



I know I could give up and send it to Marlin, but I hate that hassle, and I like (sometimes) the challenge of doing it myself.

I would expect a gun like the .444 XLR to be able to get cloverleaf groups at 50 yards; anything less than that will leave me somewhat disappointed. Of course my son suggested I could always turn it from a 24" barrel gun I'll scope (NOT with the 36x, mind you), into a .444 Guide Gun with maybe an 18" barrel and the magazine tube flush with the barrel end, and a ghost ring sight setup - I'd be willing to forgive a gun like that if it shot 5 minutes of angle!

UPDATE - I loosened it up some more by peeling off the slivers of wood impinging on the magazine tube (they wouldn't let it ride up snug to the barrel) and here's the FIVE shot group I got (no barrel cool down either):



Now that's more like it! I think five shots like that at 50 yards and there is at least potential. The last three all went in the hole to the right, so I'm hoping the first two 'settled in' anything that needed it.

For those who wondered about a pic of the gun, I couldn't find my slippers, so I had to borrow my kid's:

[TedH]

Hmmm, I wouldn't be very happy with that either.

Maybe you just need bigger glass on it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[CowboyTutt]

AJMD, hard to advise you on this. If it were me, I would just send it to a gunsmith like Mic McPherson and have it sorted out. However, if you want to do it yourself, Mic has a classic textbook on the subject called "Accurizing the Factory Rifle". I've decided I want to get a signed copy from him and apply it to my Enfield as I hear its a good read. Anyhow, just food for thought. But those other flyers in the 4 and 5 ring have me concerned. Has that ammo been reliable for you in the past?

-Tutt

[AJMD429]

...But those other flyers in the 4 and 5 ring have me concerned. Has that ammo been reliable for you in the past?

-Tutt

Sorry - I edited the post to clarify - I adjusted sights after firing the three shots on the right, then fired the three in the middle.

[Ysabel Kid]

What distance?

[Modoc ED]

I don't have a .444 Marlin XLR and haven't even fired one but I do have a Marlin .444S Microgrove 1:38 twist barrel made in 1979 and a Marlin .444SS Deep Ballard grooved 1:28 twist barrel made in 2003 so I do have some experience shooting a .444.

Before I'd of done what you've done so far, I'd have tried a couple other brands of ammo -- i.e., Hornady Light Magnum 265gr and some hand loads to see what they would do -- maybe even some Hornady LeveRevolution 265gr ammo too.

I've found that the most inaccurate factory loaded ammo in either of my .444s is the factory Remington Express 240gr .444 and the most accurate is the factory Hornady Light Magnum 265gr.

So, before ya get to cutting/chopping/washering/etc., try some differnt ammo.

[Blaine]

I see lots of verticle space.......All my levers will string verticle shooting a group quickly. Try letting the bbl cool five min. between shots and if it tightens up, then the bbl is stressing on something when it heats and expands.... You can be sure by taking off the forearm and shooting a group (usually, anyway )

[6pt-sika]

I have a bunch of 444's and every model of XLR Marlin has brought out to date .

And ALL my groups have been better then what you're showing in the first post . And thats with a bunch of different cast and jacketed handloads as well as a couple types of factory ammo .

In my own 444XLR I have shot a handloaded Hornady 265 grainer was about 1.5" for 3 shots at 100 yards with a 14x scope . This same rifle does about the same with the factory loaded Leverevolution ammo .

In my 2002 vintage Marlin 444SS I have shot 6 or 7 handloads at 100 yards and the worst was better then then 3" for 3 shots at 100 yards and that was with a 9x scope . This same 444SS has also shot a couple sub inch groups at 100 yards with the factory Remington 240 grain load . I also have a box of the no longer made Remington 265 grain Core Lokt ammo and of the two groups I shot with this stuff at 100 yards both were less then 2" at 100 yards .

All of my XLR's and 444's are shot as I pulled them from the box with the exception of mounting a scope !

[6pt-sika]

Of course my son suggested I could always turn it from a 24" barrel gun into a .444 Guide Gun with maybe an 18" barrel and the magazine tube flush with the barrel end, and a ghost ring sight setup - I'd be willing to forgive a gun like that if it shot 5 minutes of angle!

I have a Marlin 444P which is the Marlin 444 Guide Gun that they no longer make ! I've shot this one at 50 yards with my cast bullets and a Lyman peep with the factory front sight and gotten groups in the sub 1" range . This same rifle with my little Leupold 1-4x at 50 yards will cut ragged holes for 3 shots at 50 yards with my cast loads .

I also have a PAIR of Marlin 336D's which are the same configuration as the 444P accept in 35 REM that shot very well ! One is for jacketed bullets and the other for cast .
The cast bullet 336D with the same Lyman peep setup shot some really good groups with the Ranch Dog 359-190GC bullet . And later when I mounted a old Weaver K3 the groups at 50 yards shrunk a bit ! The other 336D with handloaded Remington 200 grain RN Core Lokt bullets at 100 yards with a 2.5-8x Leupold would easily keep 3 shots inside 2" .

I'm not sure if I have been overly lucky or what but the problems you seem to be having with that rifle have never (knock on wood) cropped up in any of mine so far

[O.S.O.K.]

I would've sent the rifle into Marlin to get the sights worked on myself and then worked on the accuracy. They'll most likely have to unscrew the barrel and put another one on...

And I agree about shooting a few different brands/loads too.

And how about a pic of this rifle?

[Idiot]

Before I'd of done what you've done so far, I'd have tried a couple other brands of ammo -- i.e., Hornady Light Magnum 265gr and some hand loads to see what they would do -- maybe even some Hornady LeveRevolution 265gr ammo too. So, before ya get to cutting/chopping/washering/etc., try some differnt ammo.

This fella gives the best advise. Try different ammo and bullets before you get out the chop saw and wreck what might be a good rifle. Especially try the ammo the gun was designed to use, the LeverEvolution stuff. Some guns can be very particular about what bullets they like and dislike, often shooting "cloverleaf groups" with one and "patterns" with others. Your gun may be one of them.

[Modoc ED]

A couple of handloads that I use:

Hornady or Remington Brass, WLR primer, 45gr H4198 Powder, Cast 290gr (.432) LFNGC Beartooth Bullet. Averages 2179 FPS

Hornady or Remington Brass, WLR primer, 54gr H322 Powder, 265gr (.430) Hornady Interlock FP bullet. Averages 2288 FPS

With those two handloads (with iron sights at 100 yards) I get groups of 1" to 1½" groups off the bench and have no trouble putting all rounds in a 6" circle out to 200 yards.

[BenT]

You need to put some more rounds through it. I just picked up a new 444 this last summer and the more I shot it the better it grouped . So put at least 50 round through it.

[J Miller]

This doesn't apply specifically to the Marlin XLR 444, ~but~ every Marlin rifle I've owned that has a dovetailed magazine tube stud in the front was tight as a starved tic at first. Within 100 rounds every one of the loosened up to where they are loose.

I would have fired a hundred rounds of different ammo through that rifle before even thinking of messing with it.

JMHO

Joe

[AJMD429]

What distance?

I took my crooked-sight XLR http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=12887 to the range finally, and shot three rounds of Remington factory 240 grain at fifty yards off a bench with a 36x scope - group was about 3 inches if I recall (can't find that target).

[AJMD429]

Thanks for all the advice - I sense a common theme - but that means I have to clean off my reloading bench (because with the price of today's factory loads I think I'll first load some up of my own). A hundred rounds from now I should have a feel for what the deal is, and I'll bet alot of it is that magazine tension (none of my other Marlins have any 'pull' that I can detect when fastening the magazine to the barrel - it just gently is held there by the screw.)

And yes, I'll try to post some pics this weekend...

Thanks,

[Modoc ED]

A couple of handloads that I use:

Hornady or Remington Brass, WLR primer, 45gr H4198 Powder, Cast 290gr (.432) LFNGC Beartooth Bullet. Averages 2179 FPS

Hornady or Remington Brass, WLR primer, 54gr H322 Powder, 265gr (.430) Hornady Interlock FP bullet. Averages 2288 FPS

With those two handloads (with iron sights at 100 yards) I get groups of 1" to 1½" groups off the bench and have no trouble putting all rounds in a 6" circle out to 200 yards.

EDIT: Here's another .444 handload I use with results the same as the first two.

Hornady or Remington Brass, WLR primer, 48.2gr H4198 Powder, 240gr (.429) Speer Gold Dot SP bullet. Averages 2249 FPS

[HATCHETTJACK]

how were you holding the forend while shooting. my 45-70 xlr shoots just as bad as yours if i hold to far from the receiver, when i hold just in front of the receiver it shoots cloverleafs.. learned that here i believe

[AJMD429]

how were you holding the forend while shooting. my 45-70 xlr shoots just as bad as yours if i hold to far from the receiver, when i hold just in front of the receiver it shoots cloverleafs.. learned that here i believe

Those were from a rest. Buttstock in leather cup up snug to my shoulder, rest weighted with three 25 lb. shot bags, and forend resting at about halfway along the wood.

Good comment though; I've heard others say forearm hold really matters and it sure is true for my 1894's.

[Guncase]

Try 46 grains of H4198 with the Hornady 265 grain flat nose. 5 shots touching from 50 yards in the sitting position with elbows rested on knees with my old MicroGroove. It has an ashley ghost ring and the barrel has been whacked to 20". Also has full length mag tube and extra barrel band.

[6pt-sika]

Try 46 grains of H4198 with the Hornady 265 grain flat nose. 5 shots touching from 50 yards in the sitting position with elbows rested on knees with my old MicroGroove. It has an ashley ghost ring and the barrel has been whacked to 20". Also has full length mag tube and extra barrel band.

If you don't mind me asking ! What are the first two digits of the seriel number of your rifle ?

It isn't "AC" by any chance is it ?

Thats the only year I'm missing for one from each year of the "First Model 444" !

[Guncase]

6pt-sika,
Fortunately for both of us, it's AD. I really don't think I could part with this rifle. It is my "go to" rifle if I really need to get something done.

[AJMD429]

And how about a pic of this rifle?

Pic added.

See the third shooting report too - much improved.

As for the crooked sight, if I decide to shoot it open-sighted, I can always use the 'rapper cant' like they do on TV with their Glocks...