CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

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Lawyer Daggit
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CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#1 Post by Lawyer Daggit » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:33 am

I have just purchased a 45/70 contender carbine barrel. It is a G1 16 1/4 inch barrel.

I want to use the rifle as a back pack rifle for Sambar deer, which is a deer species bigger than the Elk, but will inevitably also shoot wild pig, which vary considerably in size here.

Until now 30-30 Ackley imp was my biggest TC barrel. I have settled on 125 gn BT's as projectile of choice which I find fine to shoot, but 150 gn projectiles in this rifle were horrible recoil wise.

Note here I use a Rem model 7MS 350 Rem Mag, so I am used to quite a degree of recoil- although the recoil of the 350 RM is more of a slow rolling shove rather than the brutal, bruising, smack in the chops belt of the 30-30 AI. The 350 RM is quite manageable off hand as long as one does not fire too many rounds in a session.

I am beginning to wonder what the 45/70 will be like.

Obviously, before firing it I am going to have the gun fitted with a good recoil pad, and will probably settle on a slip on type that will lengthen pull and improve the rifles fit on me.

However, does anyone have any suggestions about loads?

I will be limited to loads designed for a Trapdoor loads and a 300 gn projectile is obviously going to reduce recoil a bit (compared with heavier projectiles).

Is this going to penetrate well on large game?,

What powders and loads can people suggest?

Would there be any benefit loading with black powder or pyrodex? (I have no experience with either).

Thank you in anticipation.

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#2 Post by Hobie » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:37 am

I have a custom shop 24" barrel. I doubt it weighs much more than the 16¼". First shot the barrel was vertical RIGHT NOW! After plinking with it a bit I was able to shoot it accurately from the bench with no problem. My load using 54 gr. H322 and the Sierra 300 gr. JHP duplicates the factory 300 gr. express load at 1800 fps. However, for elk sized critters I'd use the 405 but not load to exceed 1600 fps in this light gun (mine weighs 5½ pounds IIRC).
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Hobie

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HEAD0001
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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#3 Post by HEAD0001 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:43 pm

If I were you I would consider shooting a heavier projectile at a slower velocity. A 405 at 1300-1500 fps will knock the snot out of them.

I own a Contender Carbine. And a faster load in that short barrel will be extremely snappy, the muzzle flip will be worse than the recoil. If you are using a scope then be sure to get one with alot of eye relief, or you will get "scope eye".

Think big and slow cast bullet's. Plenty of trajectory for shots to 200 yards and that big slug will definitely get the job done, and it does not need higher velocities to get it done. If all your shooting will be 100 yards and in then 1200-1300 fps will easily get the same job done. Tom.

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#4 Post by Tycer » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:07 pm

Try some 405s with 13 grains of Unique.

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#5 Post by Lobo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:24 pm

Hi All,

As I recall, JD Jones makes a 50-70 barrel for the Contender, and a sweet looking thumb-hole stock. After what was essentially a 99.9% failure rate, he quit putting scopes on the rifle. They're available with iron sights only. :mrgreen:
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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#6 Post by vancelw » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:55 pm

Lobo wrote:Hi All,

As I recall, JD Jones makes a 50-70 barrel for the Contender, and a sweet looking thumb-hole stock. After what was essentially a 99.9% failure rate, he quit putting scopes on the rifle. They're available with iron sights only. :mrgreen:
I'm not so sure I'd want a thumb-hole stock if the recoil is sharp.
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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#7 Post by Pete44ru » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:39 pm

[ am beginning to wonder what the 45/70 will be like.]

A .45-70 Contender Carbine will prolly be jes' fine..............................

Onect upon a time, I bought a .45-70 Contender Super 14 (factory Lobo scoped) Hunter w/Muzzle Tamer, when that chambering was first introduced - whith T/C's new "recoil-reducing" padded walnut grip. :roll:

Shooting 300gr JSP's for the first time out of it, the trigger backlash adjustment nut/boss on the back of the triggerguard flat ripped the skin off the middle finger of my trigger hand ! :shock:

I stopped shooting that first day, to stop the bleeding and run down a set of Pachamyr rubber bumpers - which made it manageable AND one of the most accurate big-bore handguns I've ever shot.

The T/C Carbine stock/ etc should make the .45-70 even more manageable in a small frame like the Contender.

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#8 Post by Lawyer Daggit » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:50 am

I have just been told that the gun shop that sold me the barrel over the telephone had previously sold it to someone else- so it looks like I will not be shooting a 47/70 TC just yet.

Interesting comments about muzzle flip being worse than recoil. Interesting we speak of recoil as though it is one thing, but different guns give different experiences in this regard.

-noise
-'kick'
-muzzle flip
- blast

I agree that the way to load would be slow with a big bullet- and it was this that had be thinking Pyrodex or black powder, though i have no experience with either.

I agree, I do not think I would scope this barrel

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#9 Post by bigbore442001 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:52 am

Lawyer Daggit wrote:I have just purchased a 45/70 contender carbine barrel. It is a G1 16 1/4 inch barrel.

I want to use the rifle as a back pack rifle for Sambar deer, which is a deer species bigger than the Elk, but will inevitably also shoot wild pig, which vary considerably in size here.

Until now 30-30 Ackley imp was my biggest TC barrel. I have settled on 125 gn BT's as projectile of choice which I find fine to shoot, but 150 gn projectiles in this rifle were horrible recoil wise.

Note here I use a Rem model 7MS 350 Rem Mag, so I am used to quite a degree of recoil- although the recoil of the 350 RM is more of a slow rolling shove rather than the brutal, bruising, smack in the chops belt of the 30-30 AI. The 350 RM is quite manageable off hand as long as one does not fire too many rounds in a session.

I am beginning to wonder what the 45/70 will be like.

I have a barrel just like that. When TC first came out with the Super 16 series many years ago I purchased one at Kittery Trading Post in Kittery Maine. That barrel is basically my favorite. So far I have shot black bear, whitetailed deer, wild boar and moose. Don't worry that the 45-70 will let you down. If we had sambar here I would use it on them.

There is a reloading book out called the Complete Loading Manual for the TC Contender. It has a yellow cover and is spiral bound. They have a number of pages from various companies in regards to loading data for the 45-70 in the Contender. I have always used that load data for my gun and it worked well. Most of the game I have killed with that barrel has been with a 300 grain jacketed hollow point bullet. My favorite powder for that barrel is H322. It meters well and burns fairly clean.

When it comes to recoil well there isn't much you can do. A lightweight gun with such a round is going to kick. Bear in mind that I use it as a specialty handgun so you feel it much more. When I practice for a hunting situation I will go to the range with the Super 16 barrel in 45-70 and take an extra TC with the same profile in something like the 22 lr or 22 Hornet. I fire five rounds of 45-70 then shoot ten or twenty of the small bore stuff to prevent flinching. Then switch back to the 45-70.

The only place we have Sambar deer in the US is on St. Vincents Island in Florida. They have a special muzzleloader hunt on that refuge. I would not mind taking one of those things as they seem to be an impressive animal.

Obviously, before firing it I am going to have the gun fitted with a good recoil pad, and will probably settle on a slip on type that will lengthen pull and improve the rifles fit on me.

However, does anyone have any suggestions about loads?

I will be limited to loads designed for a Trapdoor loads and a 300 gn projectile is obviously going to reduce recoil a bit (compared with heavier projectiles).

Is this going to penetrate well on large game?,

What powders and loads can people suggest?

Would there be any benefit loading with black powder or pyrodex? (I have no experience with either).

Thank you in anticipation.

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#10 Post by Hobie » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:55 am

Since you won't be getting this particular barrel this really doesn't matter but....

The truth is that impact on the shoulder isn't that bad but until you learn the gun the muzzle does rise, precipitously! I was astonished as with the first shot the gun's comb was scrubbing the back of my ear and it seemed instantaneous. It can be intimidating. Then I thought that, heck, I had a box of ammo I might as well shoot it and by the end of the session was having no problem controlling the recoil.

My gun has a 2½X Weaver mounted. Not my usual methodolgy but it works.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Lawyer Daggit
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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#11 Post by Lawyer Daggit » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:39 am

I will continue to look for one- or a 375 JDJ.....

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Re: CONTENDER CARBINE 45/70

#12 Post by m.wun » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:46 pm

That 375 jdj has always sounded interesting too me.
What in the wild world of sports is going on here

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