Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

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86er
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Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by 86er »

I got around to testing some 35 Rem bullets for accuracy, penetration and expansion on game. TedH graciously sent a box of 190 grain cast bulelts. He'll have to report in with the composition of the bullet, all I know is they were cast with a gas check and lube. I averaged the 20 bullets and got 191.9 grains. I compared them to Hornady LeverEvolution and Remington Core-Lokt, each of 200 grain weight. I tried to get the 190 cast and the 200 RCL to the same velocity for fairness in comparisons. It took a lot of load experimentation but I ended up using the 190 gr cast with 35 grains of H322 for 2065 fps average and the Remington Core Lokt were over 36.3 grains of H4895 for 2039 fps average. I could not get the velocity closer without sacrificing a ton of accuracy. The 190's require a deep seating depth to cycle in the Marlin, with the bullet seated to the last crimp groove and a heavy Lee factory crimp applied. The Hornady's were factory loaded 200 gr and I did not chrono them for velocity. Rifle is a Marlin 20" bbl w/ a 4X scope with German post reticle. First the groups at 100 yards, shot prone with no sling or rest: The Remington Core Lokt put 3 shots into an inch. The Hornady did just under 3 inches so I shot a 4th shot to be sure. The cast bullet threw one round of the first 3 shot group so I shot another into the group. It put 3 shots in 1 1/2 with the flier making the group 3". Next the penetration. Similar accuracy out of my 1909 year Rem Model 8, but I was more interested that it functioned with all of them and it did, and it has open sights. I had two rear halfs from cows that weighed close to 300 pounds per half. We put three layers of shrink wrap to keep the splatter down and also give some resistance like the hide would. The two halves were hung side x side. I figured the 35 Rem is most commonly used from a stand or jump shooting so 50 yards would be common. I also considered feeders and open shots could have it going 100 yards pretty often. Closer and further are possible but less frequent, so I compromised and did the penetration testing at 75 yds. I thought the bullets might go through one half and into the other but they did not. I shot marked 2 1/2 inches on the plastic and shot the bullets that far apart and in a straight string. Since I had the other half fresh I repeated on that side and averaged. All the bullets were oval shaped so I measured the expansion across the widest part. The cast bullet retained the gas check on it.

Bullet Penetration Expansion Weight
Horn 7" .782 187.5
Cast 9.75 .722 154.9
RemCL 16 .714 198.5

You can also see some of the wound canals in the photos. The Hornady bullet started to make a canal at around 3 inches and it was nickel sized. The cast bullet started at 1.5" and it was about quarter sized for 5 inches and then shrunk to a little over bullet diameter. The Rem Cl started at 3.5" and continued to a size between nickel and quarter but kept the same size canal to its resting place.

Any of these would be good for whitetail deer. I would not hesitate to use the cast bullet on animals up to around 275 pounds and out to 100 yds. The Remington Core Lokt would be good for deer, bear and I think up to around 600 pound up to 100 yds.

ACCURACY
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AMMO SELECTION
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200 Grain Core Lokt
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190 Grain Cast Bullet
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200 Grain Hornady Lever Evolution
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Wound Channels
Rem Cl
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Cast
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Hornady
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The 3 shots
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Last edited by 86er on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Old Savage »

Thanks Joe for doing the testing - that Remington load is a winner again.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Tycer »

There's a reason the CoreLoks have been around for over 60 years.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by TedH »

Those bullets I sent Joe are cast from the Ranch Dog TLC359-190-RF mold. I cast them from an alloy that is supposed to be a duplicate of the Lyman #2 alloy. Glad to see Joe got some decent accuracy out of them. I'm still trying to get them to shoot in my Marlin 356 Win. I think some H322 is next on my list.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by C. Cash »

Great info Joe....thanks for the report. Those Ranch Dog bullets look deadly with that big meplat. I am thinking I will start shooting my Beartooth 210's again in my 356, for a Hog/Deer load.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by JohndeFresno »

Great work - again - Joe. Thank you. I'm archiving this little gem.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Awsome report...Mebbe I ought to punch out my 99 300 Sav to 35 Rem....
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by CEMENTHEAD »

Joe,
have you tried the Buffalo Bore 220gr JFN ? Just curious............

Thanks, Tom
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Old Savage »

Well, maybe punch it out to 35/300 Savage.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Paladin »

Thanks for the info, great data, looks like it is time to test the .35 EBR.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by 86er »

I had tested 220 grain bullets previously. My notes indicate that the penetration was slightly more but the expansion was the same or less under similar conditions. I note 19" of penetration at 50 yds. If I were intentionally targeting big bears or an extremely heavy animal I would consider the 220 gr. For anything under a ballpark of 500 pounds the 200 gr Core Lokt would be as good.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by CEMENTHEAD »

Good to know. Just as I was thinking. :D Thanks Joe.

Thanks, Tom
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by stretch »

Thanks, Joe!

The Remington Core-Lokt just keeps going, and going, and going.......

A superb design - as you've proved again!

-Stretch
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Nath »

You put some work in on this Joe, many thanks :)

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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Bogie35 »

Has there ever been a bullet as well suited to its cartridge as the 200 grain Core-Lokt is to the 35 Remington? It has been superlative in every test I've seen. Joe's experiment further validates this one: http://www.suitorsgarage.com/gunstuff/3 ... part1.html

From impact velocities of about 1300 to 2200 fps, the bullet produces a near perfect combination of expansion and penetration, and with plenty of weight retention. Amazing!

Thanks Joe!

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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Goat »

Thanks for giving me even more confidence in the 35 Rem/200gr Core-lokt combination. I have only limited experience with it but have found it to work in an astounding way on whitetail deer when coupled with the Marlin 336. My handload gives an honest 2200fps and has always shot very well. I hope to have it back in the woods next season but the remainder of this one will have me toting my M-375. Good information and as always, well written. Thanks for the effort you put into these tests and reports!
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by jlchucker »

The 200 gr Coreloct bullet is the first one that I tried when I began loading that caliber. It performed so well on paper with that first box of ammo that I never bothered experimenting with my loads. Later, when I got into casting for the 35, I got similar results from the RCBS 200 gr cast bullet. 86er's tests validate the excellence of the 35 Remington and 200 gr bullets. Has anyone noticed though, that over the past couple of years Remington has been jacking up the price of their 200 gr Coreloct component bullets? They must be reading all of the positive info being spread by guys like 86er and others (including me). 86er, your findings prove that anyone with a 35 need look no further than the 200 gr Coreloct. Great job with this article, 86er--and Happy New Year to everyone!
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by KirkD »

Very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting this.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by stretch »

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the work and the post.

I've always been a fan of the Remington Core-Lokt bulltet.
It was correctly designed many, many moons ago, and your
testing validates it yet again.

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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by C. Cash »

Great stuff....many thanks Joe.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by 86er »

In the data booklet that John C. Clark and I put out called 1000 Tags Filled there's a whole pile of game taken with the 35 Remington. Except for a skewed incident it ranks as one of the top cartridges if I limit the estimated animal weight to 350 pounds and the range to 150 yards. Without limiting any categories it hangs in the top 7 cartridges of those in the booklet (dozens and dozens of cartridges are represented). The raw data combined with my own recollection and clients re-caps of the hunts really opened my eyes to the 35 Rem. The results were too consistent and positive to ignore!
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by Old Savage »

Ben, you would have to punch it out to 35 Savage. There is the cartridge I think the guys who want a 35 should be doing.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by 86er »

I think the neck on the 300 Savage case is too short to take it to .358. Maybe if you blew out the shoulder too. It appears that there would not be enough gain with a 300 Sav case to warrant a 35 on it. Remington made an experimental 38 Remington cartridge that never was produced. Now that may be something! It is essentially the 35 Rem expanded to 38 caliber. If only a good rifle bullet was available in .380. Nothing comes to mind.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by C. Cash »

The 356 Win. is still a great cartridge as well....more roomy and can use the same bullet/velocity concepts. I cannot imagine needing much more unless one went to a 35 Whelen or some such thing, in a gun that will take the longer cartridges. Recoil is going to take all the fun out of it at that point, though, in a short compact carbine, and for what realworld gain? And then you come back to the fact there is nothing wrong with the 35 Rem., so why fix what's not broke? I just prefer the 94 Win. in the Big Bore config. so the 356 Win. is the answer.
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Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Post by earlmck »

Much thanks for the great bullet test, 86er. I printed it out and put it with my 35 Rem reload info.

And Ben, I'm with you. If I had a 300 Savage that wasn't getting much use, opening up to 35 would be a real option. As far as case neck goes, the 300 Savage is short but that has never been a problem in 30 cal and it would gain a scosh of length going to 35. I just scooped up a 200 gr. Hornady R.N. 35 (same profile as the core-lokt) and held it against the 300 savage cartridge. It would seat at the canelure with room to spare. Maybe a little too much room... a pretty good jump to the riflings, even if you chamber the new cartridge with virtually no throat, like both my 35 Rem 336s are chambered. But the fine 200gr. R.N. bullet would seat to just below the base of the neck in the Savage case. I'd call it "pert neer perfect".

But you would have some other bullet options, in those made for 358 Win. or 35 Whelen. And with a normal throat, the 35 cast bullets could be seated to a more normal position (I have a great 180gr. LBT pistol bullet that I use in my 35 Remingtons, but I have to seat it way back so just the nose sticks out... And 86er had to seat his cast bullet awful deep for the same reason. Yep, 35/300 Savage would be a fine cartridge if you have the spare rifle.

Here's how they look:

Image

300 Savage at normal O.A.L.___ 200gr. 35 R.N.___ 180gr. cast___ 35 Rem. loaded with the cast
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