Rifle techniques assembling a proper sling

[JReed]

I would have put this as Off Topic but felt that this could be applied to any long arm so I feel it is On Topic.

I put this together for another member via PM but thought the rest of you all might find it useful as well.

This is kind of an add on to the post I made on the Army Marksmanship Unit site. found here.http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 75#p403075

The question put to me was how you rig the sling as some of the pictures on the Army site weren't to clear on how it looked. So I broke out my enfield to show how this is done. The sling I am using is the 1 1/4" web sling that is issued on the M-16.http://www.brigadeqm.com/cgi-bin/tame.e ... .ctx=30145 I have acquired a couple of these over the years and like to use them on my rifles. Many 1903 A3, Garand, and M-16 match shooters like to use the leather sling that came with the 1903 but the web sling is easy to use and lasts forever and cheaper.
There are two ways to use this sling, the loop sling and the hasty sling. This post will deal with the loop sling. Very few people outside of the military or competition circles know of it and how to use it properly. So I thought I would shed some light to those out there haven't seen this before.

Here are some pics of how it is used on the rifle and as a loop sling.
Here it is attached to the rifle


Here is how the part of the sling attached to the toe swivel is assembled around the S hook. To use it as a loop sling the webbing must be fed threw the buckle in this manner.


Here it is pulled tight and ready to use.


Now here is were the rubber meets the road. The loop that we just made now gets put on your arm as high as you can get it. To low on the upper arm and you cut off blood supply to your hand when tension is applied causing pain and eventually loss of feeling in your non firing hand.


Here is another view.


I will be adding on to this as I am able to get more pic's taken ( i.e. talk the wife into humoring me by taking silly pictures of me and guns)

[Tycer]

Thankyou thankyou thankyou.

[JReed]

Your welcome

Ok here is some more while reviewing my first part I realized I left some thing out. To get the sling to lay flat around your arm you have to give it a half turn clockwise if your right handed and a half turn counter clockwise if you are a south paw.
Here are some pics to show this.

Here it is straight.

and here with the clock wise turn.

this allows the sling to make the turns around your forearm with out any kinks in the sling.

Ok another question I received was how to get into the cross leg sitting position talked about on the Army site. This is the position I use on the rifle range for qualification. Many people can't successfully get in this position but if you can it is extremely comfortable. All of this for a right hander but for a lefty just switch it and you are good.
( these may seem Barny style but I would rather show to much then not enough)
Start this position by sitting on the floor with your legs out in front of you.


Cross your legs at the ankles with your left ankle on top feet pointing out to the sides.


Next place the elbow of your non firing hand on the same side knee. (I place mine just in front of the knee cap)


Followed by the elbow of the firing hand.


Now lets tie this in with a rifle and the loop sling.

[AJMD429]

I need to bookmark this thread - better explanation than I've seen anywhere else.

Thanks.

[Rusty]

If you look on the websites for the Appleseed project there is a link there for a WWII era training movie that show getting into a shooting sling live. They also show the use of the "Hasty sling."

[FWiedner]

Everybody has to discover what works best for them.

My preferred sit is very similar but to try and avoid having the point of that trailing elbow as a weak point of support I pull my knees in a little and lean in a little bit more to get the flat part of the back of my arm above the elbow against the flat of my upper shin below the knee.

My forward elbow ends up in a similar position on my other shin.

[J Miller]

Jeremy,

According to the text on the site, and their pics it was not as easily understood. You're pics make a lot better sense. Soon as I get a sling I'll try it again.

Joe

[Alan Wood]

I'm not sure weather to call this a hint or a warning. When I went to Camp Perry for the National matches during high school our small bore team took the m-16 training offered. They specifically warned us that if we tried to use the slings the way we used them on the 22's we would BEND the barrel! Now this was in 80 or 81 so things have likely improved but...

When you use the sling apropiately except for offhand you have a setup where the rifle is held steady by the sling and your bones. No muscles involved! Bit of a story here. The first school team practice after the National Matches I was in position (prone) meditating on my notes while the coach was introducing the new members of the team to the art of the sport. He took the oportunity to point out that I was (seemed to be) asleep but the rifle was still pointed down range not on the ground. Wasn't asleep but it sure would have looked it. Totaly relaxed but the barrel was pointed high down range.

Alan Wood

[COSteve]

JReed's suggested sling mounting method is right on. I've mounted my slings that way for almost 50 years.



Allen Wood's concern is actually not an issue with the sling adjusted so that it's tight at the back but loose up front.

In the picture below, the rifle is tightly in place while there is zero load on the barrel. I've been shooting this way sine the very early '60s and the tension can be adjusted by moving your elbow in and out.

[olyinaz]

Sticky this!

Oly

[Ysabel Kid]

I need to bookmark this thread - better explanation than I've seen anywhere else.

Thanks.

+1 - this one gets shown to Y2K when he gets home from school! THANKS!!!

[JReed]

Everybody has to discover what works best for them.

My preferred sit is very similar but to try and avoid having the point of that trailing elbow as a weak point of support I pull my knees in a little and lean in a little bit more to get the flat part of the back of my arm above the elbow against the flat of my upper shin above the knee.

My forward elbow ends up in a similar position on my other shin.

Exactly Rifle positions are an art not a science every one has to fine tune their position to work best for them. Latter this today I will show the other sitting positions we use.

[kimwcook]

Looked good, Jeremy. I would add that the length of the sling will change from prone, sitting and offhand, plus different clothing will require a different setting on the sling. Sometimes sitting and offhand can remain the same, just a little tight on the sitting. Marking your sling for the different positions is a good thing to do so you can easily set it prior to getting into position.

[rjohns94]

Well done and thanks for taking the time to do this.

[Griff]

Everybody has to discover what works best for them.
My preferred sit is very similar but to try and avoid having the point of that trailing elbow as a weak point of support I pull my knees in a little and lean in a little bit more to get the flat part of the back of my arm above the elbow against the flat of my upper shin above the knee.
My forward elbow ends up in a similar position on my other shin.

Aye, me too, had an instructor that told us that "...the more of your long bones you can parallel, the steadier you'll be."

[JReed]

Looked good, Jeremy. I would add that the length of the sling will change from prone, sitting and offhand, plus different clothing will require a different setting on the sling. Sometimes sitting and offhand can remain the same, just a little tight on the sitting. Marking your sling for the different positions is a good thing to do so you can easily set it prior to getting into position.

Yes sling length changes from position to position and with the amount of clothing. Marking your sling is a necessity every thing in shooting is revolves around repeatability if you don't mark your sling you can't repeatably reset it to where it needs to be for the position used. I was going to talk about this a little later but you beat me to it.

Grif and FWiedner I position my arms the same way it is just hard to see that with the clothes that I am wearing. Maybe I will retake that photo with shorts on so it shows more clearly the placement.

Gents and Lady's if at any time something doesn't make sense please stop and ask. I am used to coaching and teaching Marines that already familiar with the things I am covering here and don't want leave something out. The only dumb question is the question never asked.

[J Miller]

Question:

I'm planning a Ft Wayne trip before you head west. Is there a rifle range we could use, and what would be the best time to come up, for some hands on coaching????


Joe

[JReed]

Question:

I'm planning a Ft Wayne trip before you head west. Is there a rifle range we could use, and what would be the best time to come up, for some hands on coaching????


Joe

There is a range down in Huntington about 30mins from Ft Wayne that goes to 400yds Mokwaw lives over there and could be persuaded to come along I think. As to time frame I will be pulling stakes and moving some time between May-July so I would say if you could make it this April that would be best.

Ok I wore out my wife's patients in the photo taking department so I will have to use some I took of Marines that I was coaching on the range.

The next sitting position is the cross leg ( I mislabeled the other sitting position it is the cross ankle this is the cross leg sorry for any confusion ) Many people call this one sitting Indian style. It is easy to get into and very stable. I recommend this one for folks that are around average height or shorter or those that for some reason can't get into the cross ankle.

You start by sitting and crossing your legs tightly in front of you with your knees resting on the toe of the opposite foot. With the sling in place on your non firing hand place the elbow of the non firing arm into the pocket created between the end of your thigh bone and your knee cap. With your firing hand grasp the but stock and place the but high into the pocket of your shoulder. Once you have the but seated grasp the pistol grip( or wrist of the stock depending on your rifles configuration) and roll your firing elbow down to your knee again placing the back of the elbow in the pocket created by your knee. Then to obtain proper cheek weld start by placing your chin on the comb and dragging your face downward pulling up all the lose skin until your cheek is firm resting on the comb. ( note: Many stocks do not have a comb allowing the shooter to do this properly. If the comb on your rifle wont allow this so that your eyes line up the sights properly then I recommend finding a means of raising the comb height so that you can. Snipers do this by taking a foam sleeping mat and cutting strips and stacking the strips to the right height secured with OD green duct tape but there is more then one way to skin a cat so use what you have on hand.)

Here is a pic of the position done the right way.


And here is one done the wrong way

While this Marine shot well he would have been much more stable and shot a higher score if he had crossed his legs as shown in the pic above. Regardless of what hand you shoot with the forward leg should be crossed over the top of the other leg. Because of the way he has his legs crossed it caused him to sit up more and left his forward knee unsupported he wiggled all over the place under recoil and had a hard time getting his point of aim back on target. The next day he did it the way shown in the other pic and dropped all 5 shots in the X ring at the 200yrd line.

The other sitting position is the open leg I will have to get some picks for ya and get them up but I suspect most of you shoot in this position naturally.

[JReed]

They specifically warned us that if we tried to use the slings the way we used them on the 22's we would BEND the barrel! Now this was in 80 or 81 so things have likely improved but...
Alan Wood

This was a problem on the M-16 A1 the barrels were thin and springy. When they went to the M-16 A2 they used a heavier barrel and this became a non-issue. With the A2 you can safely use enough sling tension that you can cut off all blood flow to the non firing hand causing pain followed by tingling then loss of feeling in the hand and fingers.

When it comes to getting in to the different firing positions we must look at a few things that have nothing to do with actually firing a rifle.

First is flexibility. Everyone has a certain amount of natural flexibility unfortunately this degrades with years and mileage on the body. But have no fear some flexibility can be recovered with diet and exercise.

Now When I say exercise I am not talking about going and hitting the gym for 2 hours every day. I am talking about core based exercises that build the muscles in the back and the abdomen. Many people laugh when I suggest this but Yoga is a great thing for a shooter. It involves lots of stretching and holding your body in positions that build the muscles that will help you to have a solid frame when in any of the shooting positions. A good cardio program is also a must. It will help lower your resting heart rate and your breathing as well make your cardio-vascular system work better getting needed blood and oxygen to your eyes, brain, and muscles.Do Not start an exercise routine without an ok from your Doctor

Here is a little eye opening drill for you to try at home with your favorite rifle in the comfort of your living room. I want you to get it in to one of the sitting positions and stay there for as long as you can. When I am preparing to go to the qualification range I do this for a couple hours every evening switching from sitting to kneeling to prone ( we call this snapping in drills). You will be amazed at how sore and tired you are from doing something as simple as sitting on you tail.
The more often you do these drills the more your knees hips and back will slowly stretch and make it easier to get in and out of your positions.

Now to help with the painful joints there is a 3 pronged approach. Proper nutrition, anti-inflammatory drugs, and supplements. Proper nutrition goes a long way. I am not talking about going on a diet to lose weight but rather making sure your body gets what it needs so that those old knees keep the cartilage they have left. Fruits, Vegetables ( if you are not a big fan of veggies suck it up and at least drink a couple V8's a day), and lean meats like fish ( I am not a fan of fish so I take fish oil pills) have the anti-oxidants and fatty acids needed for good joint health. Anti-inflammatory drugs like Ibuprofin will help keep the pain to a minimum and help your joints recover quicker from the strain. I use joint supplements which may be surprising to you all since I am only 36 but between having swam competitively, 30 years of playing soccer, and 15 years in the Marine Corps my joints have a ton of mileage. I take glucosamine and chondroitin pills I have found that it makes a big improvement in my knees and shoulders and makes being in shooting postions much less painful. I wont go into all the other benefits of nutrition when it comes to shooting but let me just say that it plays a huge part.

[jeepnik]

I'm glad someone mentioned the use of slings on earlier AR's. As I've said, with the M16 (not the A1, the original) we were taught to just lay the fore end on the outstretched palm, lest we bend the barrel and destroy the zero.

One other thing of note, positions are nice and pretty on the range. Attention to detail isn't quite so important when someone down range is shooting back. Mostly you're looking for a deep hole.

[J Miller]

Jeremy,

Okie Dokie ..... got two of the slings. OD green marked: SW(?) US MRT.

I followed your pics and reconfigured one like yours. Mine is made just a tinsy bit different than yours at the buckle end. On yours the sewn tail is just flat against the strap, on mine the tail is doubled over and sewn. I won't be able to draw it up as tight against the s hook as yours is, but it shouldn't make much if any difference .... right?

I'll get some pics in a bit.

Joe

[JReed]

One other thing of note, positions are nice and pretty on the range. Attention to detail isn't quite so important when someone down range is shooting back. Mostly you're looking for a deep hole.

Very true. But many Marines threw out history have used rifle range techniques to send bad guys to their maker at long range.

[J Miller]

I dood it!!!! Now I r a rifleman ....

Sling set up A.JPG

Sling set up B.JPG

OK, so now I gotta see if I can actually duplicate your sitting position.

Joe

[JReed]

Ya done good.

[tman]

Excellent Post. This is the way i learned to shoot. All of my hunting rifles have slings. I always try to find some makeshift rest, tree, stump, brush in the field, combined with using a sling. If i can't find i rest , i drop to 1 knee. Try it , along with shooting free hand and no rest and no sling. This works well for me ,anyway.

[JReed]

TMAN
I will be covering a couple kneeling positions here as well I have one that is almost as stable as the cross ankle sitting position I discussed earlier And yes I use it under field hunting conditions.

[JReed]

I haven't forgotten about this. I had my lap top take a dump along with about 8 articles with pictures that I had put together to add on to this . So I am in the process of retyping everything and taking new pictures. But I promise that I have more coming.

[FWiedner]

What?

Did you think no one would wait?

[JReed]

I have been around here long enough to know how impatient y'all can get.