1894 Marlin Levergun Project!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:29 pm

Well, I located and finalized the deal on my next project gun, a pre-safety Marlin 1894 Competition Cowboy. The rifle is a rusted hunk of junk, I was offered right here in my hometown! Apparently this .44Mag was left outside for a coupla years and didn't suffer from over-attention. I pick up the gun the 2nd week in May.

The rifle is coming with a new Marlin 20" Cowboy Competition .45 Colt barrel. I have not seen how Marlin holds the front of their mag tube under the barrel, except on my mdl 375, which uses a simple block dovetailed to the barrel with a screw thru the end cap. Are the octagon barrels done similarily?

In addition to refinishing the metal, a new stock & crescent buttplate will be fitted along with conversion to .45Colt/Cowboy45Special. To really see how amazing this dual "chambering" is watch the video on Marauder's website where the modifications necessary are described. Widderm'AJ'ic

The impetus for this project came from my desire to actually compete in SASS' "Wild Bunch" matches. Actually compete, insteada just playin' around as I do in cowboy matches. The 1911 is a gun I've shot, carried and competed with for 40 years... As the rules have a power factor, minimum bullet weight and all 1911s must be 45ACP, plus the mods allowed are really stringent, I see that as a huge equalizer. With the shotgun requirement of an 1897 pump, (original or clone), your rifle is about the only to "game" it!

Since AJ's C45S is essentially a 45ACP with a 45Colt rim, I'm figuring to switch calibers on the reloading bench will only need the shellplate changed on my Dillon. Same boolits and powder charge, should yield good results. 815fps outta the 1911 will make the power factor, so while I could drop the powder needed to make the PF outta the rifle, an increase to ~1000fps outta the rifle shouldn't impact recoil or shot to shot speeds. And since it requires at least a .40 rifle and the same minimum PF, even if some do drop their rifle ammo down the minimum, gun handling and accuracy should prevail!

I'm considering simply bluing the gun, or going to CCH on the receiver, bolt, floor plate, forend cap & buttplate.

Now for a coupla quesstions:

1 - Can someone with one of the octagon Cowboy Competition models post a pic of the front magazine hanger?

2 - If I do go the CCH route, is doing the hammer & lever "over the top?" Is that just me, or do others feel the same? How were the original Cowboy Competition models finished?

I'm only going with straight-grained Walnut on this gun and slimming the forend. Might, maybe, am thinkin' of shortening the barrel to 18"... 16"? Will it still hold 10 C45Ss? Decisions, decisions!

And, FWIW, on my other projects, the holdup now is finding forends to match my stocks. Fancy grade forends are just RARE. My price w/the seller depends on him finding the right forends! Been waiting to do final fit on wood BEFORE habing the metal refinished! Arrrgggh!

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:38 pm

Look forward to the finished product.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:55 pm

Sounds like a gun that got rescued from the pound...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:59 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Sounds like a gun that got rescued from the pound...

Can''t tell from the pics, but "pond" could be it!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:03 pm

Cool

looking forward to seeing the finished gun.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:11 pm

Griff,

Here you go. It's just the little dovetailed block in the barrel at the front.

IMG_0124.JPG

IMG_0125.JPG

This is the closest pic I've got:

muzzel end.JPG

As for refinishing you can see mine is cc finished on the receiver, lever, and trigger plate (lower tang).

Hope this helps some.

Joe

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:16 pm

Yep, dovetailed hanger on the bottom of the barrel, and yer gonna have to re-work the mag tube to match. I suggest getting the holes right (one side of the hole is big, the other smaller, as it slips over the hanger and is caught with a screw from the bottom), then clip off the other end of the tube to length where it fits into the receiver and chamfer the end on the inside just a tiny bit. Yer CC barrel is 20", the .44 manglem is 22"......

I had Bill English cut one of my .45 CB-L barrels to 16.25". It holds ten C45S rounds.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:14 pm

Is that thing more accurate with two front sights????

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:16 pm

Old Savage wrote:Is that thing more accurate with two front sights????

Well, when I'm seeing double I have a sight for both of them

Joe

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:31 pm

Some people think a scope is cheating but this takes the cake especially if you are also using a peep sight of some sort which of course is just a little itty bitty scope.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:24 pm

J Miller wrote:Griff,
This is the closest pic I've got:
muzzel end.JPG
Joe

Thanks Joe. That does indeed look like how my mdl 375 is attached. And thanks for CCH info... don't want mine to look "just like" 'em, but close enough to make 'em think, "...what'd he do with safety?"

adirondakjack wrote:...yer gonna have to re-work the mag tube to match. I suggest getting the holes right (one side of the hole is big, the other smaller, as it slips over the hanger and is caught with a screw from the bottom), then clip off the other end of the tube to length where it fits into the receiver and chamfer the end on the inside just a tiny bit. Yer CC barrel is 20", the .44 manglem is 22"......
I had Bill English cut one of my .45 CB-L barrels to 16.25". It holds ten C45S rounds.

Thanks for the reminder on the mag tubes. What's the OAL on those cartridges as I might need to adjust to accommodate longer boolits.
Watch fer my order for 500 pcs of brass.

Does a free ballcap come with that?

(Hey! Don't squawk at me, ya can't say "yes" if I don't ask)! Watch out how ya answer, ya might get innundated w/orders!

Old Savage wrote:Some people think a scope is cheating but this takes the cake especially if you are also using a peep sight of some sort which of course is just a little itty bitty scope.

Say it ain't so!!!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:26 pm

Nominal max OAL is 1.225. Most rounds will run shorter. For instance, I load 160s to 1.160, and that's crimping em long, behind the crimp groove.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:57 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Some people think a scope is cheating but this takes the cake especially if you are also using a peep sight of some sort which of course is just a little itty bitty scope.

Griff "Say it ain't so!!!"

Yes Griff and now it can be told - there is no Easter Bunny!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sun May 01, 2011 12:33 am

Oh, Griff, when ya send yer order, mark "Griff" in the comments area so I know who it is. I will have a little somethin special for ya

No ball caps though

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:15 pm

adirondakjack wrote:Oh, Griff, when ya send yer order, mark "Griff" in the comments area so I know who it is. I will have a little somethin special for ya No ball caps though

Mailed ya off a MO on Tue. Should near an OH postmark, and if you can read my chicken scratch my actuak return address. Marked "Griff" on it in big enough letters you shouldn't yer readers!

Lookin' fiirward to whatever Crackerjack prize ya put in there!

But ya needn't; I'se just joshin' with ya!

Hopin' to get up that way as the weather warms above freezin'!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:47 pm

TedH wrote:Look forward to the finished product.

+1

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Fri May 06, 2011 9:20 am

Griff wrote:
adirondakjack wrote:Oh, Griff, when ya send yer order, mark "Griff" in the comments area so I know who it is. I will have a little somethin special for ya No ball caps though
Mailed ya off a MO on Tue. Should near an OH postmark, and if you can read my chicken scratch my actuak return address. Marked "Griff" on it in big enough letters you shouldn't yer readers! Lookin' fiirward to whatever Crackerjack prize ya put in there! But ya needn't; I'se just joshin' with ya!

Hopin' to get up that way as the weather warms above freezin'!

You'll be seein mail about the middle of next week, assuming the Express feeds the ponies and the injuns don't waylay the riders.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri May 06, 2011 9:41 am

Hard chrome!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat May 07, 2011 12:30 am

Old Savage wrote:Hard chrome!

Now OS, would that be appropriate for a "short rifle" of the 19-teens? No, CCH it'll be. 'Sides where it now sez:

on the door, when I finish powder-coating all the stainless & aluminum, it'll read: "The Anti-Chrome"! Don't sound like a fellar that'd hard-chrome a rifle!

Jack, hopefully I'll be home the mid part if next week also! Maybe I can get a weekend off!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:10 pm

Got home last nite, packages all arrived. Thanks to getitdone1 for the pre '64 parts, Leverbob for the primer holder for my RCBS Rockchucker and Adirondakjak for the brass and such itty-bitty boolits! Thank you gentlemen.

Jack, I'll load them boolits up and try 'em out.

Don, the parts'll be absolutely great in my '63 project. Now all I need are the guide rails and decide on what barrel & configuration I want.

Bob, the primer cup and holder fit perfectly... adds a lot to the flexibility of my old press... now I don't HAVE to hand prime those cases if I don't want to. Was aggravating when I went out to the barn to load the .40-90SBN and found I'd left the hand primer in the house! As wet as it's been here, sloggin' back 'n forth thru the puddles left me with cold, wet feet, and lost the enthusiam to load. Well, I did get several BP 45Colts loaded on the dillon...

Well, to the rifle: pics above were from the seller, (who, I must say is quite the nice gentleman and isn't the one that abused this rifle. He got it with the intent to convert just as I'm doin', but decided it was too big a project). When I posted that I was looking for one, I fully expected to be contacted by someone across the country... was really surprised to find that he was right here in town! And a visitor on this forum from time to time. I promised I'd document the build and keep photos of its progress.

So, in the beginning there was an abused and neglected .44Mag Marlin 1894:

And, a new .45 Colt Cowboy Competition barrel.

Anyone want a Williams peep sight? Can't use them in SASS, and I'm thinking a period (1890's) barrel sight would be best. Maybe a trade could be worked out?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:48 am

Anyone want a Williams peep sight? Can't use them in SASS, and I'm thinking a period (1890's) barrel sight would be best. Maybe a trade could be worked out?

Griff,
Is that an FP or a 5D sight, I can't tell from the pics.

All I have as far as a Marlin lever gun sight is one of the folding barrel sights like this:

28a8_1.JPG

So that's not much of a trade. If you come across a couple 1890s rear barrel sights I could use one too.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:30 am

Thanks Joe, I have that same rear sight off my Marlin 375 (somewhere????). I'm trying to figure out if the one Midway shows for the "CB" series is near to what I'm looking for. Can't really tell from pics I've seen on their site or even the pics of the 1894 "Cowboy" on the Marlin site.

Oh, about the Receiver Sight, I don't know... what do I look for?

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:36 am

Let's get a scope on that bad boy. Oh that's right SASS - never mind.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:21 am

Old Savage wrote:Let's get a scope on that bad boy. Oh that's right SASS - never mind.

I already have 3 guns with "suitcase handles"... this little bugger don't need it!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 13, 2011 5:13 pm

Griff,

The FP (Fool Proof) uses click adjustable elevation and windage adjusters.

Williams FP-39_b.jpg

The 5D sight uses sliders held by screws to make the adjustments. Like in the pic below. ( The caption is wrong)

Williams FP.jpg

Joe

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:09 pm

Griff, I have a Cowboy Limited CB 45 that I could take a picture of the rear sight if need be. Just let me know.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:17 pm

I think the Cowboys wore Marbles front and rear sights?? If memory serves me correctly. 1886.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:21 pm

Well then Griff - come out of the closet and show us pics of your "suit case handles" guns - and, are any of them levers???

Bolts don't count!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:37 pm

1886, I believe my rear sight is a Marbles. Don't know what the front sight is. You're more than likely right and it's a Marbles too.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:38 pm

Well, never one to delay tearin' something apart:

Disassembly is done. Well... almost, still gotta get the barrel off. Tried the bench vise and wood block method... it's way tight! Might just have a pro do it, and save any damage to the receiver... once that's done, it's sandpaper and crocus cloth and polishing compound.

Joe, the peep is a Williams, marked on the bottom, "94 36". While it looks something like the FP in your pic, it's click adjustable for both windage and elevation.

OS/Kim, all the Marble's rear sights I see now use the double row elevator. Not my cup of tea. But, from what I can tell, the Marlin uses a single elevator same as the other mdl 1894s.

OS, only one levergun with a "handle". Pics can be seen here: Re: marlin 375 serial # ?.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:04 pm

Griff, two thoughts. One, a dremel with a steel or brass brush, along with some hoppes would be a quick and effective crud remover on the innards.

Two, I asked the folks at Turnball Restorations about HOW to take a barrel off a Marlin. They told me this. Chuck the barrel in a padded vise (easy with the octagon barrel), and with the receiver assembled (the lower tang is very important for stuctural rigidity, make sure all the screws are in and tight), use a padded but snug parallel jaw wrench on the receiver, on the flat part right behind the barrel root. Don't yank on it, but instead, and I quote, use a cheater bar if ya have to, and just lean in and apply slow, steady pressure" until it moves. The ideal wrech believe it or not is an old time "Model T" (aka monkey wrench) with smooth flat jaws, padded with a some belt leather taped to the jaws. If need be put a length of pipe on the handle and lean on it and go slow and steady. Turnball assures me ya won't hurt it unless ya jerk on it.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:21 am

Hi Griff,
Marlin uses the marbles tall semi. It's the one in the middle. They use the 3/32" brass for the front. the one on the left.

Keep in mind if you color-case it that helps cover any pits. here's one Mike hunter just finished for one of my customers. The forend cap was cased too.

Here's a Cowboy with crescent buttplate.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:31 pm

Nate,

Don't think mine will turn out anywhere that nice... But, it's starting out a little rough (hey! it's my excuse)!

The barrel is off... (anyone want a .44Mag barrel? Be advised, it's very pitted on the outside... many pipe wrench marks!!!! It was tight!)

After a little sanding, it's looking better, but the pits are pretty bad:

Anyone have a Bisley hammer... I think I'd like a wider spur on this Marlin. On the agenda for tomorrow? Cut out the forend cap for the octagon barrel... Yeehaw... dremel here I come!

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:57 pm

Griff,
Sent those parts to Mike and most of those pits will disappear. The one pictured above was about the same.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun May 29, 2011 11:02 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Griff,
Sent those parts to Mike and most of those pits will disappear. The one pictured above was about the same.

Sent him an email, need to cut the barrel to 16-½", the mag tube and then re-blue it also. BTW, my barrel contacts the receiver about a ½ a flat off from level... is that too far to tighten, or should I figure on having the surface machined a little to make it closer?

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun May 29, 2011 11:54 pm

Griff wrote:
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Griff,
Sent those parts to Mike and most of those pits will disappear. The one pictured above was about the same.
Sent him an email, need to cut the barrel to 16-½", the mag tube and then re-blue it also. BTW, my barrel contacts the receiver about a ½ a flat off from level... is that too far to tighten, or should I figure on having the surface machined a little to make it closer?

Griff, for me it's all about the feel. it's really hard to say because the take up will depend on thread pitch. Fine threads will turn in more then coarse. But, a half of a flat is 22.5 degree out. if you can get it within about 10 degrees from TDC it should tighten but If all else fails and it doesn't bump up use some red loctite.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon May 30, 2011 9:08 am

Griff wrote:OS/Kim, all the Marble's rear sights I see now use the double row elevator. Not my cup of tea.

What I'd like is a Williams FP base using the 'aperture' from a Marble's Bullseye rear sight. If I were a good machinist (and had a milling machine) I'd make one by drilling out and threading the dovetail-base of the 'fixed' version of the Marbles:

+

= ???

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon May 30, 2011 9:48 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Griff wrote:OS/Kim, all the Marble's rear sights I see now use the double row elevator. Not my cup of tea.
What I'd like is a Williams FP base using the 'aperture' from a Marble's Bullseye rear sight. If I were a good machinist (and had a milling machine) I'd make one by drilling out and threading the dovetail-base of the 'fixed' version of the Marbles:
+ = ???

I'm a traditionalist... and SASS rules don't allow any of those sights. Since this is going to be a competition rifle in SASS sanctioned matches... I kinda gotta go with their guidelines... and they also happen to fit my idea of what I like. If I knew of a place to get a reproduction of this sight:

I'd have two! to go on my rifles with tang sights.

Since that's not likely, for this particular rifle I'm looking for another of these:

It's a quick sight to get on target... I think it, in combination with one of Nate's Grabber sights he pictured above will be the combo I want to go with.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:48 pm

kimwcook wrote:Griff, I have a Cowboy Limited CB 45 that I could take a picture of the rear sight if need be. Just let me know.

Kim,

That would be super.

I got home this evening (slow down at the base means I get the weekend off). ARRRGGGHHH!!!! Ripped open the box from Midway. Only to find that the new stock is cut for a much longer tang than my rifle has.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:48 pm

Well, the non-fitting stock has been returned and I'm waiting on the arrival of the correct stock and a matching forend from Precision.

The flap over my proposed hammer modification reached the highest levels of SASS, and the result is: they don't want to entertain the notion. Sorta like opening Pandora's box, you just never know what you'll be letting out!

So... since I have all this time on my hands and was thinking about this today, (traffic is light on the 2-lanes of MS & TN and my A/C is broke), it dawned on me that my hammer is undercut for a slide-on spur extension. SO... why not make the Bisley spur a removeable extension!

End of problem! Now all I need is a machinist to do some itty-bitty work!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:30 pm

The project 1894 came home today after having the barrel shortened to 17", a new dovetail cut for the mag tube, barrel indexed & headspaced... and the barrel crowned.

Threw the stock blanks on it, and viola! Balances wonderfully, right in front of the lever pivot screw... throws up to the shoulder like it was returning to the womb... uhhhh, I think I'm going to love this rifle!

Ain't sure the nice crown job will show in the pic, but it's concaved and the outside is nicely radiused!

Now, to stock up on sandpaper!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:02 pm

Stop at an auto body supply and use yer charm to get REAL price on decent sandpaper. Retail is NUTS these days.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:49 pm

Griff, I don't know how I missed you asking for the pic of my 94 barrel sight. I'll take a look at it right now and see if anyone's posted one that looks like it.

I forgot I put a tang sight on it and took the barrel sight off. I don't know right off the top of my head where it's at. I'll look for it in the next couple of days.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:26 pm

adirondakjack wrote:Stop at an auto body supply and use yer charm to get REAL price on decent sandpaper. Retail is NUTS these days.

Good idea Jack. It's nice that it's finally getting together. A couple of the new parts have had to be altered to fit... and may need some more final "tweeking" before it's ready to be refinished. But, I figure it's best not to rush thru this. Before I go much farther, I'll be doing the internal mods to get it to run the Cowboy45Special ammo and .45 Colt. Idea is to make it all functional before I put any lipstick on this pig.

Kim, I'd like that, thanks. Until I get the sights... I'm holding off getting the front dovetail cut. I'll get the hammer mod done at the same time...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:17 pm

WOW! Been fitting the stock and forend... that inletting is tedious work! I've done one Winchester 94 that was 95% inletted... this one is like 96 or 98%... but whereas the Winchester just needed the front edge cut so that the tang went all the way back, this one has the tang cut just a 1/8" short! Those little curved at the end of the hammer slot are tough to get right!

Sadly, the first forend I tried was about that same 1/8" too short! The second is about that much too long! Rasping down the ends on the forend is tough to keep straight! Either that or my eye to hand control is worse off than I thought!

Put all the pieces back in 'er... and arrrggghhh! The magazine tube was drilled off-center. The gunsmith made a new plug; and didn't drill it quite right... too shallow for the stud it screws into... so the mag tube sits too far off the barrel, the forend cap won't line up unless I really bend the tube upward in the middle... NOT the right way to do this. I think that between that, the homemade plug, and the fact that the mag tube was really pitted when I got the rifle; a new plug & mag tube are in order.

But, on the plus side, 17" was the absolutely correct length to cut the barrel, it'll hold 12 of AJ's little Cowboy45Specials or nine 45 Colts, both with a 185grain WFN. With just a ¼" more, it'd hold 10 45Colts!

Maybe cutting down the spring a bit more (plenty of tension with about 8" of spring stickin' beyond the tube. It'll feed one C45S, but with any in the mag, there's something binding it up. Or something is pushing the rim of the second round out into the frame, and blocking the carrier from coming back up. Not good!

Looks like I'll be learning more about the Marlin 1894 than I first thought!

I'll have to study on Widowmaker Hill's conversion a bit more... (note: this is an unmodified .44Magnum with a .45Colt barrel installed. So, it ain't like I was expecting to work before I made the changes WH outlines in his "Widowm'aj'ic Special" mod for the Marlin 1894. Which'll be engraved on the barrel once all the final work is done. Headspace is perfect @ .0025". Should still be fine even after it warms up!

I'm going to have to study up on how to correct that. But, oh boy, does this little baby balance nicely!

Maybe a new mainspring, as the insides are polished up nicely and it's one smooth baby! Since the run I normally do has all but dried up, I've been running around TX and LA for the last two weeks, no issues about taking the baby with me and working on it at night! Hopin' to get back to my good payin' run after the first of the year... if not before!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:40 pm

Ok, think I've found the problem with the magazine. If anyone has a 1894 Cowboy I wonder if they could tell me if my magazine stud is in too shallow of a dovetail? Or, to put another way, is the magazine being held too far away from the bottom of the barrel?

Here's a pic of the dovetail as cut:

Since I can't recut the dovetail... or make it deeper (?), if it's too shallow, I guess I'll have to remove some metal off the stud.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:24 pm

Ya may have to use a washer type shim on the mag tube stud Jam a piece of cardboard or something between the mag tube and barrel to figure out how thick a washer ya need on the stud to get the tube further from the BBL.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:20 pm

adirondakjack wrote:Ya may have to use a washer type shim on the mag tube stud Jam a piece of cardboard or something between the mag tube and barrel to figure out how thick a washer ya need on the stud to get the tube further from the BBL.

Actually, I think the gap at the muzzle is too large.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:15 am

Griff,

Here is a pic of the magazine tube hanger on my recently acquired Marlin 94 CB:

SHASTA

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:28 am

Thank you Shasta... yep, he cut the dovetail too shallow. The stud portion appears to be flush with the bottom of the barrel... so that mag almost touches... now... THAT, I don't know if it can be corrected without a new barrel?