35-30/30 update

[86er]

So, some of you know my Henry was converted to .358-30/30. The first process was to form brass. The two die Redding set is difficult to form cases from without crushing 3 or 4 out of 10. Fire-forming works well. I used 6 grains of Titegroup with a sheet of toilet paper and a wax plug. This forms the case enough to resize properly in the dies. Then, while trying different powders, I determined that Benchmark worked the best. It will push 180, 200 and 220 grain jacketed bullets as well as 225 up to 300 grain cast bullets. Also, a full case works great but it is hard to get too much powder in the case so this helps as a safeguard. I got bulk pack from Midway bullets labeled as 200 grain Remington Core-Lokt. After they were all loaded, I noticed there were two groups on the target, one was 2 inches lower than the other. Upon close inspection, I discovered that Midway had 2 different bullets in that box. Most are Core-Lokt but the others are more of a flat point and may be Hornady or Speer. At least over the same load they shoot just 2 inches different. The chronograph also shows 2000 fps for either (20" bbl). I also loaded Hornady FTX 200 gr. These group nicely but shoot 12 inches high and 3 inches right compared to the other two bullets! Next, I have a Saeco flat tip spire point bullet that is 224.5 grains and gas checked, sized .3595. Again, same load of powder they get 1974 fps. Lastly, a Lyman semi wad cutter 225.8 grain gas checked, sized .3600 with the same charge gets 1988 fps. The groups shooting at 100 yards using a sand bag front and no rear rest with zero wind using a 7X scope from the Rem Core-Lokt bullets is 2.50", Speer or Hornady is 2", Hornday FTX is 2.50" . The cast bullets are shooting good too - Saeco is 2.25" and the Lyman is 2.50". Grizzly Cartridge measured the pressure from the jacketed loads and got a reading of only 28,885 psi. The recoil is negligible and the rifle is really pleasant to shoot. One thing that became obvious is that 30-30 Winchester brass needs to be trimmed about every third loading because the case mouth will be un-even. With older 32 WS brass I have not experienced this issue.
The rifle has 3-groove deep cut rifling and the conversion cost $225. I have not tried the 180 gr pistol bullets yet, that's next but I am starting to hunt with this rifle now, so maybe it will make game soon.

[TedH]

I ran into that with those bulk bullets from Midway before too. I've used cream of wheat to form 375 Win cases from 30-30. Only lost 3 or 4 out of 100 that way. Did JES do the rebore? Sounds like a great conversion.

[Rusty]

It sounds like it's coming together Joe. I wonder if Anthony would be interested in this project?

Maybe that's what he needs in his lineup, a new cartridge. He could call it the .35 Henry and everyone would benefit from the factory ammo as well. But then the ammo companies might not be interested in it right now since they're already selling everything they can turn out.

[Mainehunter]

I'm assuming JES has done the work and was curious why you decided to go with 3 groove instead of 4 or 5? Also I LOVE that stock!

Mainehunter

[86er]

Yeah, JES did the work for me. I chose 3 groove after several considerations. It will shoot ok with 357 diameter pistol bullets that are 160 gr or more and it works great with 200 gr+ jacketed bullets. Any oversized cast bullet will do. The only bullets that it is weak with are 150 and 180 grain jacketed rifle bullets. These would be better served with 4 or 5 groove. Jessie knows what he's talking about and can walk you through your decision.

[Sixgun]

Just run the 30-30 brass in a 35 Whelan neck expander that's designed to make 35 Whelan from 30-06. It is a tapered ne. That is the first step I do when making 38-55 from 30-30 and I don't lose any.----6

[1894cfan]

What does a 35/30 cartridge look like? I gots to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BenT]

Nice project. A pic of the cartridge would be nice . There can't be much of a shoulder on it.

[86er]

L-R
225 grain SWC, 224 gr FPSP, 200 gr CL, 200 gr FP

[Nath]

Impressive stuff Joe.
Do you think three groove will have an effect on bullet performance terminally?


U.

[AJMD429]

What does a 35/30 cartridge look like? I gots to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe like this - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=688

[1894cfan]

Thanks, guys. I like, just not enough to change out a perfectly good 94.

[piller]

It isn't normally done with a perfectly good rifle. It is more for fixing one with a shot out barrel, or perhaps a damaged barrel, that cannot be fixed to still shoot .30-30 due to the oversize bore that is left when the repairs are done. I see the point of the caliber, and would keep it in mind for a fix to something that I hope never happens to me.

[86er]

I just like 35's. I have two 35 Rems, a Whelen, a 356 Win (borrowed), a 360 DW. I also have a 30-30 Win. So, since I have powder and bullets that will work in all the .358 cartridges I figured the .358-30/30 was a way to enjoy the rifle while consolidating components. I am very familiar with the ballistics since the load I like mimics the 35 Rem and 356 Win loads I use. And, I could load a 300 gr bullet up to 1900 fps if I feel the need. If you have an inexpensive rifle or a duplicate rifle it is an inexpensive way to get a new caliber to shoot. In this case the rifle was a X-Mas present so my cost is in the conversion and dies. I also appreciate the terminal performance of the cartridge too, as it has proven to be really reliable and consistent. One noticable and interesting fact is that the noise level and the recoil (200 gr bullet at 2000 fps) is less than the same rifle in 30-30 (170 gr bullet at 2000 fps) - not that the 30-30 was much to begin with.

[BenT]

I like the 35's also. Been thinking about rebarreling the Browning 1895 from 30-06 to 35 whelen. But the Marlin 338 MX has my favorite these last couple years , just because I don't want to beat up my 356 Win.

[Rusty]

Joe,
I knew you had the 360 DW so I was thinking that you might have a special interest in the .35 cal stuff. I've been thinking about a .357 Maximum myself. I wonder if it could be done in a repeater?

Maybe a 92 clone, or a Win 94, or even a 357/77 Ruger. I could always got the Handi Rife route which is what I've been thinking.

[Bloodhound]

What a great project! Puts me back to my .375 JDJ project plans. Havn't thought about it for a while...but this thread has me scratching my head again...and checking the web for an older .444

[Model 52B]

I ran into that with those bulk bullets from Midway before too. I've used cream of wheat to form 375 Win cases from 30-30. Only lost 3 or 4 out of 100 that way. Did JES do the rebore? Sounds like a great conversion.

I do the same thing.

I use 8 grs of Unique, add cream of wheat to about half way up the neck and add a pea sized plug of toilet paper to hold it in the case. If you fire it vertically, the case mouth comes out nice and even.

The same thing should work to form .358/.30-30 as it hasn't got that much of a bottle neck in it.

[Sixgun]

I ran into that with those bulk bullets from Midway before too. I've used cream of wheat to form 375 Win cases from 30-30. Only lost 3 or 4 out of 100 that way. Did JES do the rebore? Sounds like a great conversion.

I do the same thing.

I use 8 grs of Unique, th add cream of wheat to about half way up the neck and add a pea sized plug of toilet paper th to hold it in the case. If you fire it vertically, the case mouth comes out nice and even.

The same thing should work to form .358/.30-30 as it hasn't got that much of a bottle neck in it.

That's a lot of work. On an RCBS Pro2000 press, I first screw in a 32 Spl. Sizer, next a 35 Whelan fls with a tapered expander, then a 38-55 fils with a tapered 378 whby tapered expander. I run out 100 cases in about 10 minutes with no loses. Load as usual with my standard load and trim after this first shooting.-----6

[madman4570]

Very cool!

[86er]

Thanks for the info Sixgun. That works good!

Now - The Lyman semi-wadcutter 225 grain is not working out so good. Some cartridges load fine yet on others I cannot close the lever. If I try to force the bullet in/lever closed it will sometimes eject an empty case while leaving the bullet stuck in the chamber. The loading process is the same and I have fooled around with COL to try to rectify this but no luck. If it was all or none I could get it but I am obviously missing something here. About 4 out of 10 loaded cartridges would not chamber. I pulled, resized and started over. Then maybe 1 or 2 of these will now chamber yet the other 2 still won't. Any ideas or tips?

[Sixgun]

Joe,
You probably have a full width driving band and you have to seat it deeper. Get a fired case and seat a bullet in by hand so there is just a tad of friction. Slowly chamber the dummy round until the lever is closed.....then carefully extract and notice where the bullet is in relation to seating depth. Seat there on loaded ammo and Lee FC.

I have even taken cast bullets with this problem and sized them nose first in a sizing die that's about .008 smaller and sized just the front band, then seated that band in the rifling. It centers it up real nice and will still chamber. Sometimes only a couple of thou. reduction is needed. You wind up with a two diameter bullet with a lot of time involved but those babies really shoot.

The Brownings always have this "no lead" issue and with the thinking cap on, about any cast bullet can be made to shoot accurately.-----6

[Model 52B]

I ran into that with those bulk bullets from Midway before too. I've used cream of wheat to form 375 Win cases from 30-30. Only lost 3 or 4 out of 100 that way. Did JES do the rebore? Sounds like a great conversion.

I do the same thing.

I use 8 grs of Unique, th add cream of wheat to about half way up the neck and add a pea sized plug of toilet paper th to hold it in the case. If you fire it vertically, the case mouth comes out nice and even.

The same thing should work to form .358/.30-30 as it hasn't got that much of a bottle neck in it.

That's a lot of work. On an RCBS Pro2000 press, I first screw in a 32 Spl. Sizer, next a 35 Whelan fls with a tapered expander, then a 38-55 fils with a tapered 378 whby tapered expander. I run out 100 cases in about 10 minutes with no loses. Load as usual with my standard load and trim after this first shooting.-----6

I have Unique and cream of wheat. I don't have a .32 spl sizing die, a 35 Whelen die or as .378 tapered expander.

I can do about a 1,000 cases before the UPS truck gets here with the dies and expander plugs I'd have to order, even with over night shipping.