Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

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vancelw
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Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Started a new thread so I don't highjack the Ruger Gunsite thread.
1886 wrote:Try JES Reboring. 1886. http://35caliber.com/
I plan on calling this guy tomorrow.
I have a Browning 1895 in .30-'06 that I would love to convert to .35 Whelen.

It should work right? Parent cartridge is the .30-'06 so bolt and ejector should work???

Anybody see a problem that might prevent such a conversion? Providing that barrel is thick enough. Bore is only 0.050 larger. Would reboring the chamber leave the chamber walls too thin?
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by piller »

I do not know any of the answers Vance, but I am interested in this project. Sounds cool.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

I found this:

http://leverguns.com/articles/model_1895.htm
(4) When Winchester/USRAC/Miroku made 1895's in .270 Winchester in the 1990's, I was not interested in a chambering that was (1) unoriginal and (2) for an excellent long-range cartridge that would benefit greatly from the scoping that the 1895's top ejection made awkward. So, I had a .270 rebored & rechambered to .35 Whelen. The Whelen is the .30-06 necked up to .35 caliber, of course, and the .270 is the .30-06 necked down to .277. So, the feed from the magazine was just fine. I recommend this conversion highly. Hamilton Bowen did the work for me, & he did it to his usual extremely high standard. Z-Hat in Wyoming also does such conversions & makes takedowns, too!
Looks like I'm in luck. This is gonna hurt the pocketbook, but I want really, really bad.

Has anybody here ever used the services of any of these folks who rebore/rechamber?
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Ragnor »

I have had JES rebore a couple of my Marlin 336s. One to 38/55 and another to 444 Marlin. Did a nice job, reasonable and quick turn around time. Rifles both are very accurate. I went with the 3 groove. I would like to do the rebore for 35 Whelen also but I will have to wait for a deal on a 95.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Did he remark the barrel to indicate the new caliber?
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by FWiedner »

What's the advantage to reboring versus rebarreling?

:?:
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Ragnor »

Yes, he remarked the caliber on the rebored barrel. With also his initals on the top of the barrel were it is threaded into the receiver.

I thought rebore would be less costly than a rebarrel.
I think the cost is $225.00 shipping included for the rebore.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

And the finish on a new barrel might not match the rifle perfectly. For other calibers it might make sense, but for .30-'06 to .35 Whelen a rebore seems less labor intensive. No having to pay to remount sights is a plus.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by missionary5155 »

Good morning
Have had 5 barrels rebored and rifled by JES in calibers .375 and .412. His work is very well executed and you do not have to wait until next year to get it back.
He has a web site JES Reboring that containes a table of rifles and the available calibers he is set up to rebore them to. A price chart for the available rifling is included.

To rebarrel... you buy a barrel and then the cost of exterior contour cutting, threading it, finishing it, attaching sights and usualy a long backlog time.
All my JES rebored barrels shoot excellent. Have very good internal finishes. Are very consistant in diameter.

I am presently thinking of sending JES a Krag that has a bad throat and pitted bore to be rebored to caliber .358. This is a cut down rifle (not me) that has no collector value.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by MacEntyre »

What a great idea! I have a 24" Browning 1895 in 30-06... it would be a great choice for conversion to a thumper, being an 8 lb rifle already.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by MacEntyre »

You are so fortunate... so how does it shoot?
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by joepb »

I had JES bore my Browning 1895 to 35 Whelen, and I just love it. It functions with no issues. I also had him cut the barrel down to 21" and add dovetail. It shoots better than it did as a 30-06. It is my main elk rifle and a real thumper..............Joe
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

I've been thinking about this . But the problem is that my browning 1895 30-06 shoots great. If it didn't shoot good I would of done it by now.


7.62 , I read your post on your 1895, the only question is how does it shoot?
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by PaperPatch »

Here is some visual eye-candy of Whelen's innovations alongside the 30-06.
:wink:

30-06 / 35 Whelen / 400 Whelen
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

BenT wrote:I've been thinking about this . But the problem is that my browning 1895 30-06 shoots great. If it didn't shoot good I would of done it by now.


7.62 , I read your post on your 1895, the only question is how does it shoot?
That's the burning question, isn't it? It is all in pieces right now as I installed sights and I am working on the stock. Once finish that, I will shoot it. Tough to find time to work on my own stuff.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

BenT wrote:I've been thinking about this . But the problem is that my browning 1895 30-06 shoots great. If it didn't shoot good I would of done it by now.
7.62 , I read your post on your 1895, the only question is how does it shoot?
Yeah, it would be easier to stomach if you had a gun with issues. There's nothing wrong with mine either. I got it off of 2ndovc.

I'm going to to it. I talked to Jesse on the phone today. He said he has done a few of these and it turns out well. All it will cost me is $225 and shipping the rifle straight to him. I bet it will kick a bit more than my Remington 750 :D It shouldn't kick much more than my .348 and less than my .45-70
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Pete44ru »

.

AFAIK, Jes' current charge for the rebore/rerifle is $245 - a lot less expensive than rebarreling.

The .35 Whelan was first a wildcat on the .30-06 case, before Remington first (IIRC) ligitimized it as a commercial cartridge.

The rebore/rerifle is all your M1895 Winchester will need to go dancing with bears, etc.

Remember, under Federal Law, you can send the barreled action (I wouldn't send the wood) directly to Jes & receive it back, w/o having to utilize the services of an FFL.

IIRC, Jes has an excellent turn-around rate - he's always working, so I wouldn't expect an immediate response.

AFAIK, there's NP with just sending him the barreled action asap - accompanied with a check & a letter of your desired rebore of the .30-06 from .308" to .358".


.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by yooper2 »

I have often thought about going this route, too many projects and too little money. I do have a 94 that JES rebored from 30-30 to 38-55 and it shoots great. Very cool project.

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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by MacEntyre »

BenT wrote:I've been thinking about this . But the problem is that my browning 1895 30-06 shoots great. If it didn't shoot good I would of done it by now.
I have the same problem. The best 30-06 I've ever shot is my Browning 1895. I reviewed the ballistics of the 30-06 compared to the 35 Whelen, and I wondered if it is such a good idea after all.

However, I really like the Providence Tool Company reproduction Lyman 21 style sight that 7.63 Precision mentioned in his article... might just get that and leave it chambered for 30-06.

http://www.providencetoolcompanyllc.com/products.html
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Sixgun »

Vance,
I think it's an excellent idea. On the plus side, look how much fun you will have shooting/plinking with cheap .357 bullets. Brass is cheap and lasts forever with moderate loads.

I've used mine for elk but did not connect with it. I do have a blast shooting it all day with the Lyman 250 gr. gas check bullet that will work in the 35 Whelen as good as it works in my 35 Winchester, which is about the same as the 35 Whelen.

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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

MacEntyre wrote:
BenT wrote:I've been thinking about this . But the problem is that my browning 1895 30-06 shoots great. If it didn't shoot good I would of done it by now.
I have the same problem. The best 30-06 I've ever shot is my Browning 1895. I reviewed the ballistics of the 30-06 compared to the 35 Whelen, and I wondered if it is such a good idea after all.

However, I really like the Providence Tool Company reproduction Lyman 21 style sight that 7.63 Precision mentioned in his article... might just get that and leave it chambered for 30-06.

http://www.providencetoolcompanyllc.com/products.html
See, it's funny how we all filter information with our own perspective. I like the fact I can get 300 fps more (and thus more energy...AND a larger diameter hole) using a 200 gr bullet in the .35 Whelen vs the '06. Takes 20% more powder...

The .35 Whelen will shoot as far as I can see iron sights clearly. I would not pay to change a bolt gun from '06 to .35W...I'd just get a different gun. But I WANT a lever action .35 Whelen. I WANT one. Why? I don't know for sure, but I WANT one :D I can't wait to get into some hogs with it. The 750 semi-auto is nice (and low, low recoil) but I WANT a lever action.

I talked to Jesse today and his price (as reflected on his website) he quoted me was $225 including return shipping for 3 groove rifling. He seemed to think that would work fine and that I didn't need 4 or 5 groove. Will 3 groove work okay with jacketed, solid, and cast bullets? The more versatile the better.

I think I will take the wood off and maybe refinish it while the gun is gone. He told me it would be in the mail longer than it would be in his shop :D
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Pete44ru »

.

I'm glad you were able to contact Jes so easily, and got his latest price - he's a good worker, does good work @ decent money, & is a good man.

You hit the trifecta........ 8)


.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Pete44ru wrote:.

I'm glad you were able to contact Jes so easily, and got his latest price - he's a good worker, does good work @ decent money, & is a good man.

You hit the trifecta........ 8)


.
I sure wasn't trying to correct you though. His price IS $250 if you get 4 or 5 groove rifliling. I think it's a bargain to get a fairly unique chambering.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

MacEntyre wrote:
BenT wrote:I've been thinking about this . But the problem is that my browning 1895 30-06 shoots great. If it didn't shoot good I would of done it by now.
I have the same problem. The best 30-06 I've ever shot is my Browning 1895. I reviewed the ballistics of the 30-06 compared to the 35 Whelen, and I wondered if it is such a good idea after all.

However, I really like the Providence Tool Company reproduction Lyman 21 style sight that 7.63 Precision mentioned in his article... might just get that and leave it chambered for 30-06.

http://www.providencetoolcompanyllc.com/products.html
Mine is one of the most accurate leverguns I own. I used to shoot water jugs at 150 yards offhand consistantly and put my friends to shame when they would miss with there bolt guns with scopes. But my eyesight isn't what it used to be. I just mulled this conversion over during Christmas and decided I have too many other things going on. But I think it will happen someday. That is why I am curious on how the conversion works out.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

My rifle is one the way to J E S to be rebored.
I should end up with 349 Bore-359 groove. 3-groove rifling.
A new thread and range report will be obligatory after I get it back :D
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by MacEntyre »

I love the idea... just have to rationalize not doing it, because money it tight.

I've been seeing 35 Whelen ammo in several stores around here. I told one fellow that if he could find me a 35 Whelen levergun, I would buy all that ammo! I really can't do that just now, though.

Sorry to be a party pooper!

;)
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 1886 »

Awesome rifle, awesome cartridge. They should be fantastic together. 1886.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

MacEntyre wrote:I love the idea... just have to rationalize not doing it, because money it tight.

I've been seeing 35 Whelen ammo in several stores around here. I told one fellow that if he could find me a 35 Whelen levergun, I would buy all that ammo! I really can't do that just now, though.

Sorry to be a party pooper!

;)
:lol: Don't worry, you ain't got enough poop to spoil this party. :D
I have 3 full boxes or 250 Remington Core Lokt. And I already have bullets, powder and primers. Just need to keep my eyes open for brass. I like the idea of .357 low recoil plinking loads, but may invest in a mould. (I may have one and don't remember :oops: that's what us hoarders do!

I can justify it since reboring this 1895 into a "new" rifle is cheaper than buying a new rifle. Right?
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by MacEntyre »

vancelw wrote: I can justify it since reboring this 1895 into a "new" rifle is cheaper than buying a new rifle. Right?
That it a good point!

And I could finance about half of it by selling all my 30-06 ammo, brass and dies.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

I was just commenting to a friend today that I was taking a perfectly good rifle (that you can buy ammo for at almost any store-even during the recent panic) and turning into a gun that I'd have to load for or eternally pay out the nose for ammo :D

I like a challenge.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Must be a sign from God....

Today I got my new Handloader magazine in the mail. Big article in it on the .35 Whelen! At exactly the same time that my 1895 Browning is in the shop to be rebored to that exact caliber.

I bet it will perform heavenly when it comes home to me...
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by FWiedner »

I made a .358 Win by rebarreling a Savage Model 10 that started out as a .308. An easy swap, only had to set the headspace.

Been thinking about a .35 Whelen ever since.

I'm struggling with either converting my Dad's old 110E or finding a project eligible piece at the next gun show.

I'll be interested to see the range report on your 'new' gun.

:)
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Bud's had some single shot H&Rs in .35 Whelen the other day for $205.00 It sure was tempting, but I need 3 guns in the same caliber. $205 for a whole gun is cheaper than a new barrel for my Encore.

I've ordered a bullet mould (to replace one I sold years ago...I know better than to sell stuff like that) so I can start casting and shoot plinking loads using 5744. I still need to order gas checks and sizing die.

I'll be ready to test this think out when it comes back and maybe waylay some hogs.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

I got my rifle back and it is now a Browning 1895 in .35 Whelen :D :D :D :D

I stripped the stock and refinished it. It turned out a little light. I'm gonna see if it grows on me before I try to darken it.

I will show photos and start a new thread after I get a chance to test run it. I may be searching for a recoil pad....we'll see.
I also need to drill and tap it for Williams sights. Gotta do a little research and see if I have the nerve to try it myself.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by H_Talon »

vancelw wrote:I got my rifle back and it is now a Browning 1895 in .35 Whelen :D :D :D :D

I stripped the stock and refinished it. It turned out a little light. I'm gonna see if it grows on me before I try to darken it.

I will show photos and start a new thread after I get a chance to test run it. I may be searching for a recoil pad....we'll see.
I also need to drill and tap it for Williams sights. Gotta do a little research and see if I have the nerve to try it myself.
talk talk talk !!!!! where's the pictures, no pic's it didn't happen :-) :-)
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

Waiting for a range report. I can walk you through drilling and tapping for the sight. When you get to that point ,send me PM .
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by marwin »

Having a 35 whelen, and a 30-06 Browning . I am most leaning to a 338/06. It seems to have the ballastics???
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

PM sent, BenT
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

vancelw wrote:I got my rifle back and it is now a Browning 1895 in .35 Whelen :D :D :D :D

I stripped the stock and refinished it. It turned out a little light. I'm gonna see if it grows on me before I try to darken it.

I will show photos and start a new thread after I get a chance to test run it.
I may be searching for a recoil pad....we'll see.
I also need to drill and tap it for Williams sights. Gotta do a little research and see if I have the nerve to try it myself.
Patience people, patience :!: :D :!:
I'm still trying to clean up from the mother of all ice storms on a gimpy leg. I'll be burning tomorrow while the wind is finally cooperating, so maybe I can get some pics and do some shooting.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Setback...

I've had several people ask me about my project and required range report...
I made the stupid mistake of asking a local "gunsmith :twisted: " to D&T my rifle for a Williams receiver sight. He assured me he was capable and I showed him EXACTLY where the sight needed to be. I also told him if he had any reservations NOT TO DO IT!
Ugh. The moron drilled about 1/2" too low and now I have no elevation adjustment. I will have to fix it myself as I don't trust him to do anything else. I considered buying another rifle and swapping barrels, but alignment and headspace would be iffy. I can put plugs in the holes and have a competent smith install the holes in the correct position, but then I have two extra holes in the receiver staring at me and reminding me :twisted:
I may put a Providence Pattern 21 sight on it, but I don"t think it will cover the extra holes from my vision. This guy still doesn't understand why I'm upset.....he scarred up my pet project. I may just buy a new rifle and start over. If I ever sell it I have to explain to the buyer why there are extra holes in the receiver. I should have just bought a drill press and done it myself.

The twist rate I got was 1:14 so I should be able to shoot bullets over 250gr if I need to, or even the longer all copper bullets. Probably all I will ever shoot through it is 250gr JSP and my 204 gr cast bullets.

I will post a report with pictures once I get the sights straightened out :(
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
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Blaine
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Blaine »

Don't ya just love gun butchers? My Cowboy was butchered, and, I got way less than it was really worth when I sold it :(
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BenT
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

That really sucks! Before drilling more holes I would get a providence sight because that would require a different hole. That way you could test that sight out. Then if you get a a new gun you will know exactly where to put the hole. Plus it could cover up the other holes and look fine. Also if you don't like the providence sight , I could take it off your hands because I plan on buying one by this fall. By the way just go shoot the gun and you will feel better.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by .45colt »

Vance Wrote," This guy still doesn't understand why I'm upset". :shock: .about that time the top of My head would have blown off.
I would suggest I was sending the rifle to Turnbull's to have the holes filled and the action color cased and HE could pay half since His shoddy work is why it has to be done in the first place. Good Luck with this.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

I don't think the Providence sight will cover the holes, that's how far back and down the idiot drilled them.
I'm not real crazy about the looks of the Lyman 21 style sights, but they may be more functional if I want to switch from hunting rounds to cast rounds. I may just make the "gunsmith" buy me the sight and pay someone competent to drill the one hole I would need, plug the other two, and consider it a lesson learned. I'm more mad at myself for even thinking a local guy could do it. Those of oyu whp have local access to quality gunsmiths need to know how fortunate you are.

I may just buy a drill press (good excuse) and drill and tap the back hole for the Providence sight myself. Worst case I mess it up, weld the holes (all three) and have it re-blued
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vancelw
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

.45colt wrote:
Vancelw wrote:Vance Wrote," This guy still doesn't understand why I'm upset".
:shock: .about that time the top of My head would have blown off.
I would suggest I was sending the rifle to Turnbull's to have the holes filled and the action color cased and HE could pay half since His shoddy work is why it has to be done in the first place. Good Luck with this.
Yeah.....he is distant kin to some friends of mine, and it is all I can do not to explode.
He said everyone makes mistakes :evil:
I told him yeah, but decent people make it right.
He said I'm trying to get blood out of a turnip.

Not yet, I'm not...but I'm convinced it can be done if necessary. :!:

I didn't think of Turnbull. That might be a very nice option. I could have them fix the holes and fix the finish.
I do need to see how this shoots before doing all that to it though. Even with the sight too low, I should be able to hit the paper at 100 just to see if it's shooting consistent. Even if I have to add paper at the bottom :(
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by .45colt »

He said everyone makes mistakes :evil: , My blood is starting to boil, the last building contractor I had did much the same thing and then started to strong arm Me for more money. God is Good. I am not in jail. :twisted: .
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

vancelw wrote: I may put a Providence Pattern 21 sight on it, but I don"t think it will cover the extra holes from my vision. This guy still doesn't understand why I'm upset.....he scarred up my pet project. I may just buy a new rifle and start over. If I ever sell it I have to explain to the buyer why there are extra holes in the receiver. I should have just bought a drill press and done it myself.
The Williams sight can't even be installed correctly if the holes are too low - it is shaped to match the top edge of the receiver.

I just measured the holes on my 1895 Browning (from a Williams sight) and put a copper mark from a bullet tip 1/4 inch low. 1/2 inch puts it at the edge of the scalloped part, so it should be easy to judge from my photos if the Providence sight will cover yours.

I will post the photos shortly.
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Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

7.62 Precision wrote:
vancelw wrote: I may put a Providence Pattern 21 sight on it, but I don"t think it will cover the extra holes from my vision. This guy still doesn't understand why I'm upset.....he scarred up my pet project. I may just buy a new rifle and start over. If I ever sell it I have to explain to the buyer why there are extra holes in the receiver. I should have just bought a drill press and done it myself.
The Williams sight can't even be installed correctly if the holes are too low - it is shaped to match the top edge of the receiver.
Unfortunately it can be installed....but if it's too low it's obviously not correct. There is ZERO elevation left.
I think that was his problem. I showed him exactly where it needed to be mounted and assumed he would also research to verify the location. Instead, I think he tried to make the base fit over the relief that is on the side of the Browning 1895s. He got it almost 1/2" too low.

After looking it over, a Providence sight might cover the erroneous holes, but I'd rather have the Williams FP installed correctly.
I'm leaning more towards having Turnbull weld them up, refinish the receiver, and D&T the proper holes.

This so-called "gunsmith" can't understand why I don't want some kind of "southern engineering" to make the sight work. If the holes are in the correct place, a Williams or Lyman receiver sight will work properly, as well as a Burris Fastfire mount. (heaven forbid :D )

I think the only reason my head hasn't exploded is that I am still in shock. This should have been Gunsmithing 101. It's like having an RN or paramedic that not only doesn't know how to take a a blood pressure, but doesn't really know why a BP is important :roll:
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
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