Can anyone identify this lever gun? Now posted more photos!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:04 am

Winchester mdl 94 Carbine, 32 Spcl.

bmtshooter · Post by **bmtshooter** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:11 am

Yes .... it's mine, please send it back

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:30 am

Winchester 92 musket.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:59 am

El Tigre copy of Winchester 92

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:09 am

OldWin wrote:Winchester 92 musket.

+1 - A model 94 doesn't have a squared-off front edge on it's loading port; a musket had the long forestock w/side sling loop & the long range rear bbl sight.

.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:20 am

I believe its a 92 action, but the only place I recall seeing side mount sling loops was the Belgian Congo 94 carbines. The rear sight isn't normal 92 of any variant I recall, it looks more like an earlier type. I've seen a 92 musket a time or two, but don't recall the details of the rear sight. I'm thinking they were more like the standard carbine leaf sights.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:55 am

Malamute wrote:I believe its a 92 action, but the only place I recall seeing side mount sling loops was the Belgian Congo 94 carbines. The rear sight isn't normal 92 of any variant I recall, it looks more like an earlier type. I've seen a 92 musket a time or two, but don't recall the details of the rear sight. I'm thinking they were more like the standard carbine leaf sights.

+1
Definitely a 92 action. But, I don't recall seeing one in that configuration, either.

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:03 pm

I give up, what is it!

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:15 pm

Hmm, I think its name is Ralph and that it lived in Cleveland for a while. Why do you need to identify him? Has he been avoiding child support payments again?

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:55 pm

Need some more photos?

I'm sure someone will figure it out now.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:14 pm

Pete44ru wrote:
OldWin wrote:Winchester 92 musket.
+1 - A model 94 doesn't have a squared-off front edge on it's loading port; a musket had the long forestock w/side sling loop & the long range rear bbl sight.
.

Aye, I was too quickly influenced by that rear sight. The loading gate appears too far forward and still incorrectly shaped, the Winchester did have square corners, but the leading edge has a small rounded area in the middle of it.

A 92 styled action for sure.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:22 pm

Yes, it's an El Tigre 1892 that someone put a Remington rolling block barrel sight on and restocked it with wood from a 1960's Ted Williams 94 and inletted the sling holder thingys onto.

Looking at the curvature of the lever, near the trigger does not resemble an 1892. If it was not for me seeing the locking bolts, I'd say it was an air rifle of some sort.---6

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:44 pm

Sixgun wrote: Looking at the curvature of the lever, near the trigger does not resemble an 1892. If it was not for me seeing the locking bolts, I'd say it was an air rifle of some sort.---6

That's my take. It isn't an original 92 or a Miroku made version, they do the lines very well long the bottom of the receiver. It looks like a Rossi or similar in that regard.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:46 pm

Most people are familiar with Winchester rifles sold to European countries, such as France and Belgium.

There is one rare Winchester variant that most people are unaware of. This is because the sale and exportation was carried out in the utmost secrecy.

In 1897, Ireland was in a state of change and upheaval. A recent famine in 1879-1880 had brought attention to the state of agriculture and land ownership in Ireland, and changes to the owner/tenant system were being argued and enacted. Railroad construction meant the country was now linked by tale and travel was easier. Larger numbers Irish, especially young women, were still emigrating to England and America, and the English were still amazed that despite improvements in land ownership and tenant leases the Irish were still dissatisfied with English rule demanded freedom.

While modern advances were being made, such as the establishment of the Irish Motor Car and Cycle Company, there was also a focus on old Irish history and the supernatural realm. George Sigerson published his translated anthology Bards of the Gael and Gall. Dora Sigerson Shorter published The Fairy Changeling, and Other Poems. In 1897, Bram Stoker's novel Dracula, based loosely on Irish legends, was also published.

So it is no wonder that sightings of both abhartachs and kelpies increased, spreading terror across the rural areas of Ireland. The British proved shockingly unwilling to provide assistance, and the Irish constabulary of the time were tied to their British counterparts. So the Irish formed a committee to discuss a solution. Following a number of secret meetings, it was decided that they would form a secret militia to protect the countryside from these threats. This militia would be divided into local squads which would patrol their area of responsibility in teams of two or three men. Responsibility for organizing and leading this militia fell to Patrick O'Blairney, who appointed Sean Malarkey as Chief Inspector of Ordnance. Inspector Malarkey was responsible for procuring a standard carbine for use by the squads. The weapon was required to meet the following criteria:

The Carbine must be short and light, easy to carry and lively in handling.
The Carbine must avoid unnecessary length and bulk, to be more easily concealed about the persons and dwellings of the members of the force, to prevent discovery by the British.
The Carbine must be of a sufficiently powerful caliber to despatch the Kelpie when it takes the form of a horse.
The Carbine must be a repeater, capable of rapid fire and a large capacity of ammunition.
The sights must be rugged but adjustable for long ranges.

Inspector Malarkey had a cousin named Bell O'Nay who had emigrated to America during the famine, and secured a critical job at the Winchester plant. Malarkey sent a message to O'Nay, who immediately left her custodial duties without so much as picking up the pile of sweepings she left in the middle of the factory floor and burst into a board meeting. Winchester executives were discussing the feasibility of making ugly, squarish-shaped auto-loading pistols using synthetic materials. At the moment O'Nay burst into the board room, John Browning had just vomited across the conference table upon seeing the concept drawings of the proposed pistol and the entire board room was in a state of consternation and upheaval.

It should come as no surprise that O'Nay was unceremoniously ejected from the room with a warning of termination.

This may have ended the procurement attempt for the new carbines, but for a fortunate event. O'Ney, in her confusion, dropped the letter containing the Malarkey request. A young Winchester salesman named Hezekiah Flummery recoverd the letter and became convinced of its authenticity. Thus began the top secret dealing between Winchester and the Irish militia. The sale was code-named CASTLE, and Winchester began adjusting their popular 1892 carbine to fit the needs of the Irish.

The first 50 carbines were delivered secretly to the Irish via a tramp freighter named the Inanity, and entered service almost immediately. Two were put through trials, one was kept in almost new condition, and the rest were issued to patrols.

The carbine proved a great success. Trooper Crock was the first to successfully use a Malarkey Carbine, which he had affectionally named Horsefeathers, to despatch a Kelpie. According to Trooper Twaddle, who was present at the the scene, "Myself and Trooper Crock, while patrolling the cliffs near the sea shore, encountered a large Kelpie. He was traveling with great speed near the edge of the cliff. His mane was dripping and he had a young lady upon his back. Trooper Crock immediately fired three times in quick succession, causing the beast to crash to the ground, unseating the girl that was ridding upon his back. The beast rolled over the edge of the cliff and was impaled upon the rocks below, where his carcass remained until the next high tide. The young lady at first appeared to be unhurt, but was confused and smelled strangely of seaweed. We later concluded that she had injured her head, for she spoke incoherently and accused us of shooting her horse. She proved singularly ungrateful and soon ran off. We lost her in the mist before we were able to render aid."

There was some confusion surrounding a report by a nearby landowner, Lord Balderdash, that his daughter had been accosted by unknown persons who, without provocation, shot and killed a prize horse. It was later determined that the two events, while highly coincidental, were completely unrelated.

This was the only historically proven use of the Irish Malarkey carbines in an actual engagement. Unfortunate events soon ended the carbine program.

It is a well establish fact that the Irish cannot do anything without singing about it in a pub. This is exactly what happened with the O'Blairney Militia. One night a British officer, Leftenant Popicock, was out of uniform drinking in an Irish pub, when he overheard a ballad about the exploits of the O'Blairney militia. It was a beautiful and sad ballad in which the Militia fought bravely to save the Irish population of virtuous young ladies in its entirety, each fell in love with the fairest of said maidens, but were cruelly betrayed and executed by the British before they could consummate their love with the young ladies that married them in moving but tragic prison ceremonies. It was very tragic and romantic.

The Leftenant quickly left the pub to inform his Colonel. On the way, he met Sergeant Bosh in the street and, rather forcefully and with alcoholic fumes, expounded on his suspicions. Sgt. Bosh leaned as far backward as practical while dispensing some fatherly advice to the leftenent, using comforting words such as, "sleep it off."

Unfortunately for the leftenant, the conversation was overheard, and he was found near Colonal Farce's quarters the next morning with a large hole through his body in a location not advantageous for a long, healthy life. The hole was found to be a .45" hole, which is not surprising, as it was a common bore diameter for firearms in service at the time.

However, some light was shed on the murder by the Colonel's Indian orderly, Hokum, who reported observing the event. "The leftenant was shot by a man in dark clothing with a very American-looking rifle with a floppy-lever-thingy on the bottom," the orderly reported. This sounds very serious, unless you imagine it stated in an excited Mumbai accent (I recommend you try it out loud), which makes it impossible to keep a straight face, even if you are British. This explains the lightened mood of the British officers, who left the whole matter to enlisted men and marched off to have tea.

This would have ended the matter, had Sgt. Bosh not reported the concisely slurred report he had received from the Leftenant the night previous. This was a catalyst for an investigation, which would have uncovered nothing, had the investigators chosen to return to the barracks at night instead of drinking and listening to ballades in bars. As the investigation closed in, the militia disbanded, members went into hiding in local pubs, and the 50 carbines disappeared. Completely lost to history, their whereabouts are unknown to this day.

However, I have one in my possession that I acquired from an old Irish friend named Packy O'Prattle. He told me that his grandfather recovered the carbine from a very short old man in a red coat and hat that was trying to steal a stone from a wall of the Blarney Castle. The strange little man offered Packy's grandfather three wishes, but being of a practical nature, he just confiscated the carbine and let him go.

The final configuration of the carbine, which came to be known as the Irish Malarkey carbine, was a 20" Model 92 chambered in the experimental .45 Extra Long Colt. It had a tangent rear peep sight marked in meters, and sling swivels added to the left side of the stock and forend. Finish was blued with case hardened lever, trigger, hammer, bolt and barrel bands. Since the Irish have a flair for extravagance, nitre blue screws and sling swivels were specified.

The caliber was .45 Extra Long Colt. This obscure experimental cartridge that was not really used in the US and faded into obscurity. Since Winchester did not want to put the Colt name on their rifle, they simply came up with a three digit caliber designation. The rifle was marked strangely. The barrel was simply marked with the name of the captain of the tramp steamer that transported the carbines to Ireland, followed by the three digit caliber designation, and code name for the operation. A strange mistake in marking the barrel led to one of the most amazing coincidences in the history of firearms and ammunition development. A Winchester employee accidentally misspelled the code word CASTLE, and it was marked incorrectly on the barrels, just after the caliber marking. Decades after the original cartridge was completely forgotten by the world, a guy developed an identical cartridge, and put his name on it, which, amazingly , is spelled exactly as the misspelled markings on the Irish Malarkey carbine barrels!

Here are the photos - the only known Irish Malarkey Carbine in existence. Undoubtedly, the value is inestimable.

Notice the barrel markings above, beginning with the name of the captain of the tramp steamer Inanity. Not only can the Malarkey Carbine fire a modern but totally unrelated cartridge, through an accidental misspelling of a top-secret code name, the carbines are even marked correctly for the modern cartridge!

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:58 pm

Dang, we missed that one by a mile guys.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:03 pm

Shades of the Asperly Aimless...

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:09 pm

I knew you guys would be unfamiliar with the Irish Malarkey Carbines.

All seriousness aside, you are clearly familiar with the small differences between the 1892 and it's various clones. You guys nailed it pretty quick.

The obvious giveaways, of course, were the front end of the forend, shape of the barrel bands, knurled magazine cap, shape of the lever, and scalloping at the rear of the receiver. Sling swivels, the magazine tube, and the sight confused matters, of course.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:19 pm

Gives new meaning to the word MALARKEY....thanks....a great story!!

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:30 pm

As they say in the gun collecting word… "Buy the gun, not the story."

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:53 pm

cas wrote:As they say in the gun collecting word… "Buy the gun, not the story."

But he said his great grandfather carried it at Little Bighorn when he fought against Napoleon and his Mongol hordes with General Washington!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Sounds like this is all Malarkey to me. An obvious crock.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:53 pm

Toss out all the Malarkey & that's a sweet looking gun!!!!!!

ollogger

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:00 pm

Touch off a few and THEN tell me what you think

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:05 pm

a story teller with a classy carbine. good job on the malarkey.

did you hear the one about the baloney pistol?

me neither, yet

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:47 pm

Old Savage wrote:Touch off a few and THEN tell me what you think

I will. It first went to a girl who shot it out of the box and wrote a review. Then I did some work for it, and will write an article about cleaning up the Rossis at home, and then it will go back to the girl who will write a followup article.

Then, I will keep the rifle around for a beater that I can let people use when they need something to carry in the woods and I don't want to hand them an 1886 or Model 71.

I expect it will shoot a lot nicer now with a buttpad at a better angle and the action smoothed up.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:12 am

7.62 Precision wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Touch off a few and THEN tell me what you think
I will. It first went to a girl who shot it out of the box and wrote a review. Then I did some work for it, and will write an article about cleaning up the Rossis at home, and then it will go back to the girl who will write a followup article.

Then, I will keep the rifle around for a beater that I can let people use when they need something to carry in the woods and I don't want to hand them an 1886 or Model 71.

I expect it will shoot a lot nicer now with a buttpad at a better angle and the action smoothed up.

Well done. The angle change can only help. You might want to glass bed the wood though. Rossi's cheap wood and the 454 recoil tend to leave cracked buttstocks and forewoods that slip. Glassing it hardens the wood and makes for a tighter fit into the tangs.

BTW, got your email. When I get a chance I'll put a reply together that should cover it all. At least from my view.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:13 am

7.62, my experience, guns like this more beat up big guys who absorb the recoil than the light flexible that give with it. And, where you are there is likely a real use for it.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:19 am

Old Savage wrote:7.62, my experience, guns like this more beat up big guys who absorb the recoil than the light flexible that give with it. And, where you are there is likely a real use for it.

Do you think? I always assumed us scrawny guys had it worse with no padding between skin and bone, but you are probably right. Recoil depends on individual perspective for sure - I have always felt that the .454 Rossis recoil far less than a light (7-8lb) .45-70, yet others swear they recoil more.

As far as use, the .454 Rossi is a great little carbine for this area. I like the .45 Colts more, though, since they are more traditional, and if I lived where there were no big brown bear, I would stick with them. Anyway, the .45 Colt from a strong '92 action is nothing to discount. A good hand load from the .45 Colt in a carbine could be pretty effective against big bears.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:26 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote: Well done. The angle change can only help. You might want to glass bed the wood though. Rossi's cheap wood and the 454 recoil tend to leave cracked buttstocks and forewoods that slip. Glassing it hardens the wood and makes for a tighter fit into the tangs.

BTW, got your email. When I get a chance I'll put a reply together that should cover it all. At least from my view.

The girl who is writing about it felt that recoil was more uncomfortable than a .45-70 Marlin. I am interested to see what she thinks about it with the new recoil pad. I know for me the angle of the original pad is such that the toe points into my shoulder, not the face of the pad.

I will be glass bedding this one, taking your advice about using fiberglass cloth. I have not bedded a lever gun before, so it will be a learning experience, but much of the stuff I did to this one was just fun experimentation. I will just wait until all the writing is done and then bed it. I think the forend should be relieved more in the magazine tube channel as it still bows the magazine tube down a bit.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:35 am

Side by side with an unmodified rifle.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:35 am

Old Savage wrote:7.62, my experience, guns like this more beat up big guys who absorb the recoil than the light flexible that give with it. And, where you are there is likely a real use for it.

Yesterday I fired, without a shirt on, my 16" 454 Casull using several factory loads, and even with the short barrel, I was surprised that the recoil wasn't all that bad. I think the total round count was close to 50, but maybe 20 of those were from the 20" ones.

I actually just plan to reload more along the lines of "45 Colt +P", just to try to preserve case-life, but the main appeal of the little 16" one was that it was the only 16" Rossi I've seen that had the 'tube-loading' feature, and also the magazine tube is secured better than the other chamberings.

- and -

7.62 - I'd like to know more about that sight...!!!

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:43 am

Oh, the sight.

It is a repro of the Spanish meter sight used on an 1876 carbine. This Rossi was drilled and tapped under the rear sight for a rail. I made a dovetail insert contoured with the barrel and drilled and tapped the insert for the forward screw and used the rear hole on the barrel. I had to drill a new hole in the sight slightly to the rear of the original front mounting screw hole to align with the dovetail insert hole.

I cut the aperture off of an M16 sight and drilled it out to an appropriate size for the distance from the eye, and welded it onto the sight. The ladder tension spring with the V-notch sight I flipped upside down and drilled a hole in the bottom have to change it from a wide V notch to an aperture. Then I polished and "case colored" it, and nitre blued the small parts. I am struggling with the photography and can't get the photos to really show the case coloring or nitre bluing well.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:48 am

AJ, you look like the wiry type that can do that.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:51 am

AJMD429 wrote: Yesterday I fired, without a shirt on, my 16" 454 Casull using several factory loads, and even with the short barrel . . .
. . . the main appeal of the little 16" one was that it was the only 16" Rossi I've seen that had the 'tube-loading' feature, and also the magazine tube is secured better than the other chamberings.

Do you find the recoil more or less with the 16" barrel? My wife has one with a 16" barrel. I have not actually fired one with a 20" barrel yet.

I would like the tube loading feature more if it didn't have the stupid loading window on the bottom of the tube. I think it is ugly, and i don't use it. I actually never load through the tube, but it is handy for unloading. Like you said, it is the strength of the design that is appealing.

Did you notice what I did with the mag tube on this one?

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:41 am

Grizz wrote:a story teller with a classy carbine. good job on the malarkey.

did you hear the one about the baloney pistol?

me neither, yet

Well, you are in luck. By an amazing coincidence, I just happen to have in my possession a Browning-Rybář Machine Pistol made by Beretta, known as the Bologna Machine Pistol. Just have to dig up my old photos.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:21 am

Who knew!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:00 pm

Fun one!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:22 pm

The only thing I know about the 454 is from what I have read and from that, it's actually more powerful than the factory loaded 45-90 of which I am well acquainted with in the way of handloads. We all know what the 45-90 is capable of doing so it looks like to me, that's one powerful rifle you have there.

In your description, I like how you attached the sight to the barrel, with the dovetail and all. I learn something new everyday. That baby won't come flying off to smack you in the head like the sight did on Gunny's civilian Thompson last summer....smacked him but good.

Your quite a storyteller. The names you came up had me rolling over. Trooper Crock and the name of the Winchester salesman...I can't spell it...thanks for the entertainment

----6

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:42 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote: Well done. The angle change can only help. You might want to glass bed the wood though. Rossi's cheap wood and the 454 recoil tend to leave cracked buttstocks and forewoods that slip. Glassing it hardens the wood and makes for a tighter fit into the tangs.

BTW, got your email. When I get a chance I'll put a reply together that should cover it all. At least from my view.
The girl who is writing about it felt that recoil was more uncomfortable than a .45-70 Marlin. I am interested to see what she thinks about it with the new recoil pad. I know for me the angle of the original pad is such that the toe points into my shoulder, not the face of the pad.

I will be glass bedding this one, taking your advice about using fiberglass cloth. I have not bedded a lever gun before, so it will be a learning experience, but much of the stuff I did to this one was just fun experimentation. I will just wait until all the writing is done and then bed it. I think the forend should be relieved more in the magazine tube channel as it still bows the magazine tube down a bit.

Yep, I tell my customer the angle is more suited to a shotgun used for aerial targets. As long as it's point upward it's not so bad. But level that sharp toe does dig in.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:59 pm

I believe the shotgun shooters have been using a negative toe angle for years, its supposed to keep muzzle rise down in recoil to some degree, and the toe doesn't hang up as much mounting the gun in fast handling. Every rifle I put a pad on I have the angle set to about 1/8-1/4" negative from a right angle off the comb. This with rifles that don't have much drop in the comb.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:08 pm

i'm probly a wuss, but a 255RNFP at 1600fps was all I could handle out of a 16" Puma 45, for about 10 shots tlll I put a 3/8th's pad on. Great looking piece. Your adaptability is impressive.. Miss Alaska, aint been there since '04

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:59 pm

3leggedturtle wrote:Miss Alaska, aint been there since '04

Never met her, was only in Alaska once, to pass thru on the way home from VN... but did date a Playboy Bunny outta New Orleans for a while.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:05 pm

Griff wrote:
3leggedturtle wrote:Miss Alaska, aint been there since '04
Never met her, was only in Alaska once, to pass thru on the way home from VN... but did date a Playboy Bunny outta New Orleans for a while.

LOL, What yer wife think of PB of NO?

Made it point to never spend more than 12 days straight their.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:49 pm

3leggedturtle wrote:Miss Alaska, aint been there since '04

If you head this way again, let me know.

I have been shooting 360 gr. Cast Performance somewhere around 1700 fps, I have been told. (I need to get a chronograph to say for sure) out of my wife's 16" carbine. Does that sound like an appropriate velocity for that bullet weight at normal pressures?

Anyway, the recoil seems much less to me than a stout .45-70 load, or even some of the lighter-bullet, higher-velocity .45-70 loads, from a 7 lb. rifle.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:14 pm

I remember in 1990-1993 beating my head against a brick wall, and the brick wall of Jim West's shop (I had pretty well given up on a custom WWG by the time I left in '95), to try to convince him to make a .454 levergun to pair with my FA.

No dice.

And now they are as common as ... well, not dirt, but still an OEM/non-custom product.

Always early with an idea and late with the money...

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:21 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:I remember in 1990-1993 beating my head against a brick wall, and the brick wall of Jim West's shop . . .

That's funny. I tend to think you are not the only one. You won't see many local people in that shop, ever. I usually keep my mouth shut, but sometimes . . .

Old Ironsights wrote:Always early with an idea and late with the money...

I know the feeling. There are a number of products for modern tactical rifles (and even some older ones) that are making manufacturers a lot of money. I could dig up the drawings I made long before someone else started producing them.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:02 am

The longer I lived there, the greater the impression that you voiced...

Too bad I left (never should have... Great Regrets 101... I'd be a couple of hundred thou richer... or actually, not a couple hundred thou in debt for pointless reasons... )

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:37 pm

[quote="Old Ironsights"Too bad I left (never should have... [/quote]

Rarely is anyone ever dispassionate about living in Alaska. People have three reactions; they hate it and can't wait to get out, they love it and can't stand to leave, or they think they hate it or at least don't really care, but after they leave they can't stand to be away.

From Robert Service:

I wanted the gold, and I sought it;
I scrabbled and mucked like a slave.
Was it famine or scurvy—I fought it;
I hurled my youth into a grave.
I wanted the gold, and I got it—
Came out with a fortune last fall,—
Yet somehow life’s not what I thought it,
And somehow the gold isn’t all.

No! There’s the land. (Have you seen it?)
It’s the cussedest land that I know,
From the big, dizzy mountains that screen it
To the deep, deathlike valleys below.
Some say God was tired when He made it;
Some say it’s a fine land to shun;
Maybe; but there’s some as would trade it
For no land on earth—and I’m one.

You come to get rich (darned good reason);
You feel like an exile at first;
You hate it like hell for a season,
And then you are worse than the worst.
It grips you like some kinds of sinning;
It twists you from foe to a friend;
It seems it’s been since the beginning;
It seems it will be to the end.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:56 pm

On the .454 Rossis, there is a lot of discussion over what purpose they serve and whether they replace a .45-70, etc., with people being pretty opinionated on both sides of the fence. For me, the little Rossis fill an important role very well, better than a .45-70 is several ways, but can't be said to simply "replace a .45-70."

The Rossi .454, to me, recoils less than a light .45-70 with comparable loads. Even if the recoil is perceived to be the same as a .45-70, you are getting the same recoil from a lighter, more compact carbine. Imagine the recoil you would get from a .45-70 the same size and weight as a Rossi!

The Rossi .454 cannot match the long-range ballistics and killing power of the heavier bullets in a .45-70. The longer heavier bullets from the .45-70 will fly better and penetrated better at lower velocities.

The Rossi .454 cannot move the very heavy bullets that a .45-70 can. You are not going to match the 400 gr. to 500 gr. loads you can launch from a .45-70.

The Rossi .454 is lighter and handier than any .45-70, efficient from a short barrel, and ideal for a bear defense carbine, especially for women or children or those recoil or weight sensitive.

The Rossi .454 will outperform a .45-70 with most factory loads, but cannot match the heavier hand loads or specialty ammo from a .45-70.

If I am going to go bear hunting, I will most likely grab my 1886. If I am fishing or hiking with the kids, the Rossi is handier, and will still hammer a bear pretty well, if hit in the right place.

Outside of anywhere where big bears are an issue, the .45 Colt will do anything needed, and I prefer the more traditional look of the .45 Colt rifles, except that the .454 will handle a steady diet of the heaviest .45 Colt loads better due to the magazine configuration. Even for bear protection, velocity of heavy-loaded .45 Colts from a carbine are not too far under those from the .454 from the same barrel length.

So for some uses, the .454 will be a practical match for the .45-70, with advantages of less recoil from a lighter, more compact rifle. For other uses, it can't touch the .45-70, and for other uses, a .45 Colt will serve just as well.