New/Old Experience

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guntar
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New/Old Experience

Post by guntar »

I have listened to all the talk about AR15's for the past few years, and wondered if they had changed any. The last time I shot such a rifle, it was an M16, not an AR15. The year was 1974 and it was loaned to me by a generous Uncle. I couldn't wait to get away from that thing and back to my sporting rifles. The M16's were heavy, unreliable, clumsy and inaccurate. The triggers were terrible and, if you got a good one, it would shoot 4" groups at 100 meters. So, after listening to all the hoopla for the past ten years, I bit the bullet (figuratively), and tried out several AR15's today.

After 120 rounds, I came to the following conclusions:
- They are still way too heavy.
- They have the balance and handling of a 4"x4".
- They do seem to have fixed the reliability issues.
- They are definitely more accurate.

I am willing to concede that weight, balance, and handling are somewhat subjective items, and I suspect that I could play with an AR and get it closer to what I want, so I won't quibble about those issues. My question deals more with the trigger. A rifle with a lousy trigger is no fun for me, and every one of these rifles had awful triggers. Is there a model that has a decent trigger, or is there an aftermarket trigger that would be decent? (I am talking about acceptable in a hunting-type bolt gun.) Just a curiosity question.
Bronco
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by Bronco »

There are some fantastic triggers out there! And they are a drop in unit :mrgreen:
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AJMD429
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by AJMD429 »

Yep. Some great triggers drop right in. Single or double stage, as well.

I have a little shorty that seems like it couldn't weigh near as much as my 16" 357 Mag Rossi, and it handles NICELY. I also have an 18" bull-barrel one with a piston kit, extra [40 rd] magazine holder, night light, laser, and suppressor, and it makes my Garand feel like a feather... :lol:
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

I have two AR15's ( Had three,sold one to my brother. I have installed Timney triggers in both. My otherwise stock Ruger AR 556 will easily keep em all in 1 1/4" at 100 yd. with most brands of factory and 1" with handloads and scope.My other is a custom that I built. Billet lower,custom match grade barrel and upper,varmint grade. It will keep its shots under 3/4" at 100 yd. these things have come a long way since they were first introduced to me in the army in 1967. I didn't think much of them when I was a small arms repairman in the Army,much prefered the M14 back then. :wink:
Pete44ru
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by Pete44ru »

.

The last time I had anything to do with an AR (an M-16, actually) was in the mid-60's, when my Uncle sent me on an exotic S.E. Asian vacation. :roll:

Although I was glad to have it, and enough food to feed it - I was glad to return it when I left for home, hoping that I'd never again have anything to do with one.

So far (over 50 years later), my hopes have remained fulfilled............ :mrgreen:

(Give me blued steel & walnut, any day)

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Pisgah
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by Pisgah »

Good aftermarket triggers for the AR abound. In my experience, the best one for an all-purpose rifle -- hunting, targets, defense -- is the Rock River Arms two-stage match trigger. Simple, rugged, less expensive than most triggers, easy to install. Pull weight cannot be adjusted, but the roughly 2.5-3 pound pull it gives is absolutely crisp and consistent. Install it and instantly you have what feels like a real rifle's trigger rather than a cap gun's.
jdad
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by jdad »

These guys make the best triggers on the market, for every AR application.

https://geissele.com/lower-parts/triggers.html

I use their G2S model. 2.5# first stage, 2# second stage.
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GunnyMack
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by GunnyMack »

I was never fond of the platform either. Then there was an election, I bought a 16" upper, put a lower together for it and now I have 3 ar15 and an AR10. The AR10 is heavy, more of fixed position rifle!
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guntar
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by guntar »

Thanks for the replies. I will look at them some more, and see if I can find something that suits me. It seems like it would be good to have one for an emergency, and maybe for calling in coyotes (multiple targets). We'll see.
jkbrea
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by jkbrea »

I was a range master and taught a MP5/AR15 user and a patrol rifle course for our department. Officers had to buy their own rifles so I got to see and shoot several brands and variations.. All were AR 15s and one officer liked his mini 14. The one I think had the best trigger was Rock River Arms. The worst was my own Bushmaster. I replaced it and it made a world of difference. Accuracy in most were very good as well as dependability. The only recommendation I would have is don't "overload" it with options.

One new guy showed up with an AR that had a red laser, green laser, a scope with a red dot scope mounted on top of the scope, a flip up sight mounted on the side in case his scopes went out and a vertical foregrip with a high intensity light. Really high dollar stuff and really heavy. By the end of the course he kept stripping a little of it off at a time. He ended up with just the flip up sight relocated and the light. The green laser was pretty cool though.
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jeepnik
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by jeepnik »

The original M16 had issues. But it was featherweight when compared to the M14. However, the M14 worked and the M16 was iffy at best. When an M16 failed on me, I found an M14 and was happy until I returned to the States.

Flash forward40 + years. Two kids are Marines. They rave about the M4 (carbine version of the M16). So they get me an AR15, civilian version of what the M16 has become. It works (although it's only seen the range and a couple of yote hunts, so no real stress), trigger is pretty good, and it's pretty darned accurate. It is considerably heavier than the original pencil barreled M16.

So what's happened to M16 is that they got rid of what I thought was it's one saving grace, the light weight

So, push comes to shove which rifle will come out of the safe. No, not the AR15, but a updated civilian version of the M14, a Springfield Squad Scout.
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jnyork
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by jnyork »

I bought one about 25 years ago, a Colt HBAR Match Target, to shoot Service Rifle with. It was OK but never could get it to shoot as well as I thought it should, probably put less than 600 rounds through it and has been in the safe ever since.

I have played with a couple of carbines since , owned by friends , put a couple mags through, just cant get interested in the dang things. I suppose part of it is my dismay and dislike for the black rifle nut cases that show up at the range all togged out in their military costumes and blast away mag after mag rapid fire at the ground in front of them without a thought of trying hit anything.
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earlmck
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Re: New/Old Experience

Post by earlmck »

What p's me off about the cussed things is how well you can shoot the silly little "made-by-Matel" thing's off-hand. Which I didn't know until I got to trying out many different rifles on our "Levergun Challenge" targets. It must be that the nice palm rest you get with the 30-round mag and the weird adjustable stock that allows a perfect cheek-weld makes up for the lack of forward barrel weight and generally funny-feeling balance. A few weeks ago I shot both the wonderfully balanced Sharps single-shot 44/40 that just holds so well, and the S&W Black, standing on my hind legs shooting the levergun target at 50 yards. Got just about exactly the same score. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!
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