Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

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Lastmohecken
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Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

Well, I acquired a new Contender Barrel from ED's Contenders at the last big Tulsa Gun Show. Every year I wage war on the Carpenter Bees, around my house and barn, and I have been using a .22 Long rifle Bird Shot load in my Ruger Single Six, but now I have developed Big Medicine for them, and so far I have not missed a shot.

I did my home work and ended up developing a home made shot shell load, using a 444 Marlin case, 6.5 grs of Unique behind a full load, (AA Shot Cup) full of #12 shot, then so far I have ended up making and over shot card out of those star foam carry out boxes, and that leaves me with about 3/16 inches left to fill with melted candle wax. Then I decided to go ahead and put a roll crimp on the end to keep the wax from falling out, which can happen, and I used a .348 Win Lee Factory crimp die to apply the crimp.

It shoots a great pattern of about 8 inches diameter at about 5 yards, with hardly a hole big enough to let a Carpenter Bee survive, and would tear a snake up, if the need arose. The picture of the load shows a necked down area, that's because I had to resized the end of the case after the first firing. I used a 44 mag carbide die for that. I doubt I would have to do that with a regular shotgun chamber but my barrel started out as a 45 long Colt and has been reamed to allow for a .2-1/2 .410 load, but it's not quite as big as the initial 45 long colt chamber.
TC Contender 45 Colt and 410 Barrel, with 444 Marlin shot shell.jpg
TC Contender 45 Colt and 410 Barrel, with 444 Marlin shot shell.jpg[/attachment]
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

The barrel came with a screw on choke, which would extend the range for other varmints, etc. But when I patterned it, I kept getting way too tight a pattern with usually a half dollar sized hole completely gone out of the pattern board, which would have been deadly, except for the problem of not being that accurate and I could see how it was very easy to totally miss a bee or a snake's head. I am thinking I may end up boring that choke out some, and trying it again. So, I ended up removing the choke and started getting some pretty nice patterns, and at first I wasn't crimping my loads and I believe the roll crimp and also the necking down slightly on the brass, creates some needed back pressure, as patterns improved after I did that.

The melted candle wax seems to work pretty good, but I have some .44 cal gas checks coming from Midway, and I think I will end up using an inverted gas check to cap off my shot, although some people cut out over shot cards out of various materials and use that. It's a work in progress.

I am also planning on developing a shot load for one of my 45 long Colt revolvers, and I read where someone cut off 444 Marlin cases to stop at the end of the cylinder, requiring necking down also, but giving more room for the shot. I will probably definitely use the inverted gas check for that load.
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harry
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by harry »

Have you tried a 460 S&W brass for making the shot shells, I could send you a few if you would like to try them.
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

I did read about that case being used, no need to send any, although I appreciate the offer. I have a friend with a .460, I will see if he will let me have a couple to play around with. Have you worked up any shot-loads for the .460?
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harry
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by harry »

No I haven't, I have a 20" barrel for my Encore and never thought about making shot shells for it
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3leggedturtle
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by 3leggedturtle »

That's cool. I used a hot glue to seal the ends of my brass shotshells for the 44 mag hotshot barrel. Todd
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KeithNyst
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by KeithNyst »

I did something similar by fire forming 9.3x74R brass to make shot shells for my contender 45/410 barrel. I use it for grouse.
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J35
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by J35 »

Lastmohecken wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:39 pm The barrel came with a screw on choke, which would extend the range for other varmints, etc. But when I patterned it, I kept getting way too tight a pattern with usually a half dollar sized hole completely gone out of the pattern board, which would have been deadly, except for the problem of not being that accurate and I could see how it was very easy to totally miss a bee or a snake's head. I am thinking I may end up boring that choke out some, and trying it again. So, I ended up removing the choke and started getting some pretty nice patterns, and at first I wasn't crimping my loads and I believe the roll crimp and also the necking down slightly on the brass, creates some needed back pressure, as patterns improved after I did that.

The melted candle wax seems to work pretty good, but I have some .44 cal gas checks coming from Midway, and I think I will end up using an inverted gas check to cap off my shot, although some people cut out over shot cards out of various materials and use that. It's a work in progress.

I am also planning on developing a shot load for one of my 45 long Colt revolvers, and I read where someone cut off 444 Marlin cases to stop at the end of the cylinder, requiring necking down also, but giving more room for the shot. I will probably definitely use the inverted gas check for that load.
Sounds like you have been having fun.

A couple tips --- the inverted gas check will trap a lot of shot and behave like a slug.

A thin card for overshot wad is best and seal with silicone over the top

The 444 brass I reload, requires a .436 over powder card for best performance. Sometimes I will drop a plastic .410 wad in on top of the card, but prefer a shot wrapper for the brass shell's.

---------J
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AJMD429
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by AJMD429 »

Now I can see a whole new use for those danged "444 Marlin 'LeveRevolution'" loads I got.....their brass is TOO SHORT (shorter than standard) for regular reloading....
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

KeithNyst wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 pm I did something similar by fire forming 9.3x74R brass to make shot shells for my contender 45/410 barrel. I use it for grouse.
Image
I remember reading about using this case before, However, I see it but I am a little confused about the shape of you brass. Does you brass headspace on the rim? Please explain the hour glass reversed configuration. Is the back of the case just too strong to fire form? Very interesting.
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

J35 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:01 pm
Lastmohecken wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:39 pm*


Sounds like you have been having fun.

A couple tips --- the inverted gas check will trap a lot of shot and behave like a slug.
* Well, I was wondering about that. I thought maybe it would just fly off after a little distance.

A thin card for overshot wad is best and seal with silicone over the top.
*Yep, that may be where I end up.


The 444 brass I reload, requires a .436 over powder card for best performance. Sometimes I will drop a plastic .410 wad in on top of the card, but prefer a shot wrapper for the brass shell's.
*I think I seen a YouTube on the homemade shot wraper

---------J
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KeithNyst
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by KeithNyst »

Yes headspaces on the rim like when firing regular 3" .410 shells. Yes the case is that tough resulting in the hour-glass shape. Here is a pic of a fired 3" .410 shell next to a new and a fire-formed 9.3x74R, so you can see the length comparison.
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Sixgun »

That's thinking and a near endless fun fest on any day.

.22shot loads are ok but their range is very limited.

I load 32-20 brass with 3 grains of Bullseye and 100 grains of number 11 shot, and like you, a cardboard wad between the powder and shot and another on the top...then I rub the loaded round partway in a 25-20 fls. Deadly on bees...I shot 7 the other day and scored every round, shooting them out of a 92 Winchester.

When I'm feeling a little energetic I load up an original 1894 Marlin in 44-40 that is factory smoothbored barrel and is choked. I've shot many a bee at 15 yards.---6
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Gobblerforge
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Gobblerforge »

The 22LR shot has been real effective around here this year. The key is smooth bore for a shot column.
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

Gobblerforge wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:21 am The 22LR shot has been real effective around here this year. The key is smooth bore for a shot column.
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Yes, I think so. I have shot quite a few, carpenter bees with .22 birdshot out of a Ruger Single six. Sometimes I wish I had a smooth bore .22 and even considered taking one and boring the rifling out of it, except maybe for a couple of inches if it was a pistol, that way it would still technically be a rifled barrel and I might still do it.

I guess I could re-barrel a .22 rifle, and create a smoothbore, but I don't know if it would be worth the trouble. But right now, I am having quite a bit of fun with the T.C.
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Gobblerforge »

The issue is the rifling that destroys the shot pattern. What I did was to take a barrel liner drill for a 22 barrel liner and drilled the muzzle end of the barrel, removing the rifling for half the barrel Now there is rifling for half the barrel allowing 22LR to be shot as well as 22LR Shot. The shot column tightens back up in the smooth part of the barrel.
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

Gobblerforge wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:04 am The issue is the rifling that destroys the shot pattern. What I did was to take a barrel liner drill for a 22 barrel liner and drilled the muzzle end of the barrel, removing the rifling for half the barrel Now there is rifling for half the barrel allowing 22LR to be shot as well as 22LR Shot. The shot column tightens back up in the smooth part of the barrel.
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Did you do this in a rifle or a pistol? Was this done with a hand drill or a lathe?
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Gobblerforge »

I did this to a Stevens 26 Crackshot. My friend had the drill bit for the liner and a lathe.
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

Cool! And a pile of bees to boot.
Thanks for the pictures, and the info.
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Lastmohecken
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Re: Carpenter Bee and Snake Medicine loads for the T.C.

Post by Lastmohecken »

Well, I come up with a new load for the carpenter bees. The #12 lead shot was very effective, but for bees, it started to not be so great because I had to be very careful about my background, and it was hard to get the bees to cooperate and fly in a nice spot where I didn't have something in the background that I didn't want to shoot.

So, after reading a post on another thread about some using Tapioca seeds for shot, I decided to try turnip seed, since I didn't have any Tapioca seed. I loaded about 6.5 gr of Unique, topped it off with a fiber wad, about a 1/4" thick, then filled the 444 Marlin case full of the Turnip seeds, and finished it off with a nitro overcard and added a heavy roll crimp to create back pressure and I don't have patience to wait for glue to dry, etc.

It worked great. Kills bees and wasps very well, out to at least 7 -8 ft or so, and I can shoot them pretty much wherever they are , under the roof, even on the hot tub without damage and the pattern opens quick, very effective. Now, I have another problem; I am running out of carpenter bees to shoot. I think I have about shot them out, but then again I guess that was the plan all along.

Anyway, I believe a healthy dose of the Turnip Seeds, in the .444 Marlin case is the deal!
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