MOSSBERG'S 464 REINCARNATION OF THE 94

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:11 pm

Current issue of Shooting Times reviews Mossberg's reincarnation of what basically looks like the Winchester 94 30-30 with some "upgrades". Has anyone here seen one?

Just when I thought I didn't have any need for another gun ! Fortunately, my 82nd birthday is coming up in August and my wife has been trying to find out what I want - and, I do think we need to provide help for our wives in any way we can.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:12 pm

OJ wrote:Current issue of Shooting Times reviews Mossberg's reincarnation of what basically looks like the Winchester 94 30-30 with some "upgrades". Has anyone here seen one?

Just when I thought I didn't have any need for another gun ! Fortunately, my 82nd birthday is coming up in August and my wife has been trying to find out what I want - and, I do think we need to provide help for our wives in any way we can.

Excellent, She buy's you the Mossberg for your B-day. You do a range report, load testing. And then give us the nod with a up-down grading of the Rifle.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:18 pm

OJ,

What's "need" got to do with it? I'll bet 99.99% of us have everything we "need".

I haven't seen one yet. There are way to few genuine gun stores around here and their rifle stock is mostly black guns.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:44 pm

Here ya go OJ: New Mossberg Leveraction.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:27 pm

I looked one over and shoulder one at the local shop. Nice and light and points well.
The sights are terrible, I'd add a ghost ring if they make one for it yet.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:06 pm

I saw handled one at the SHOT SHOW in 2008 at Las Vegas. I was pretty underwhelmed actually. The wood was extraordinarily plain as was the over-all fit and finish. I'm sure it will function great, but I prefer something a little bit better.

-Tutt

Steelbanger · Post by **Steelbanger** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:20 pm

Here I am at 67, hoping these "needs" diminish with age. Fat chance, huh?

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:53 pm

WCF3030 wrote:I looked one over and shoulder one at the local shop. Nice and light and points well.
The sights are terrible, I'd add a ghost ring if they make one for it yet.

The pics in Shooting Times look like you describe it and I would just plan on replacing the sights - probably with something like i have on my Buffalo Bill Commemorative Winchester 94 - which has a 26" octagonal barrel (and weighs nearly 10#)- - making that 20" round barrel (and some 6 1/2#) look very appealing. None at Spoortsmans Warehouse today but plan to go to the Shootin' Den later this week.

Steelbanger wrote:Here I am at 67, hoping these "needs" diminish with age. Fat chance, huh?

Not a chance, man - as has beeen said by one near my age - "Resisting temptation isn't the problem now as much as finding some" - and, I confess, my wife makes certain my only temptations I have had over the more than 28 years we've been married only involve guns (which she encourages - I'm one lucky husband). The price sounds affordable and - you can't take it with you - and she has been bugging me to pick out something she can get me for my birthday.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:57 am

My local gunshop has a 464 on the shelf. I'm thinking of getting it for my "to self" 65th birthday present in August. The fit and finish on it is good and the wood is as good as any I have ever seen on a standard Winchester Model 94.

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:54 pm

J Miller wrote:OJ,

What's "need" got to do with it? I'll bet 99.99% of us have everything we "need".

I haven't seen one yet. There are way to few genuine gun stores around here and their rifle stock is mostly black guns.

Joe

That was what my wife asked also - about what "need" had to do with anything.

None in stock locally but should have one before the end of this week - I'll turn in a range report ASAP. Dealer tells me Mossberg is considering a 16" barrel version also.

jlchucker · Post by **jlchucker** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:02 pm

I saw and handled one at my regular gunshop. I was NOT impressed, especially with the way the action opened. It was really rough, and seemed like a two-stage deal--requiring effort for the first half-way, then springing open on its own for the remainder of the lever throw. This is not, IMO, anywhere near the rifle that a Winchester 94 (even the later ones) or a Marlin 336 is. I've used lever guns since I started shooting as a kid (back when nobody said "pre-64") and I can only say that if I saw one of these Mossbergs for sale at a flea market I'd leave it there for the next guy.

OJ · Post by OJ » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:57 pm

As frequently happens, the gun I ordered didn't arrive last week - never happened to me before -

.

At any rate, if you go to the Mossberg web page, there are pictures of it. Meanwhile, now I remember how I felt waiting for Christmas 3/4ths of a century ago -

http://www.mossberg.com/

I'll report at the earliest possible time after seeing and shooting it.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:33 pm

I handled one a few weeks back. Nothing fancy by any means but it felt solid enough. The wood was not walnut but other than that it seemed at least as well built as late Winchesters..

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:39 pm

I look forward to your report on the 464. The one at my shop did not have that great of wood but looks like it would get the job done.

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:08 am

Seems I read that the wood on the new 464 is birch or some other hardwood.....???........Mutt

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:16 am

Yup the stock is Birch.Some of the internal parts are MIM(Metal Injected Molded).

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:30 am

Ya'll . Needs has nothing too do with it.Just wants...........................

MUTT

ByronG · Post by **ByronG** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:53 am

I like its looks: traditional, plain and workmanlike

nralover · Post by **nralover** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:51 am

I have handled one as well. The wood was not only plain, but looked rough like some of the imported guns I have seen. The bluing looked decent, but the action was a bit rough. They may indeed be shooters, but for the price I'll take a Marlin 336W....

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:57 am

rjohns94 wrote:I look forward to your report on the 464. The one at my shop did not have that great of wood but looks like it would get the job done.

Got it and took it to the range. Had open sights zeroed in less than half box and it was a joy to shoot.

The bad news is the extractor failed before I got through the first box of ammo .

It's in its second week at the dealer's place awaiting a replacement. I only hope the replacement part is more durable. Dealer tells me Mossberg has a new shotgun out and is having trouble supplying firing pins for those that are breakiing - sure hope but am some aceptical.

I'll report ASAP.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:55 pm

Of all the Leverguns in current production, I'm hoping they do a .444/.410 tooling.

Same tooling, just don't rifle the bore.

THAT I want.

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:25 pm

Incidentally, I've usually led a lucky life and it held up when I ordered the aperture sight for the rear sight. It was tempting to buy the XS ghost ring sight designed for the Browning 700 but the man at XS Sights advised me it would not fit. The correct combo - for those interested in aperture reear sights (somehow, a scope on a lever gun just looks out of place to my old eyes - YMMV) XS sight "GHOST RING APERTURE SIGHT Low Weaver Backup #22-2069A-500-8 is the correct sight and it fits on a Weaver Top Mount Base #403 - which is actually a front sight base for a Winchester 94 angle eject rifle. That was described in the shooting times article but Mossberg kept it secret as do the Weaver and XS people since they have had no experience with the new Mossberg 464 rifle.

The help I got from the man at XS Sights was "above and beyond" and I was really impressed with him.

Now, if I could just get the extractor replaced ----

99savage308 · Post by **99savage308** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:46 pm

Mossberg's 464,

I looked two over reallllll good at the NRA shot in Louisville,Ky back in May. I was impressed. They had a plain straight grip looked like hardwood and a pistol grip with checkering it was walnut. Looked and pointed just right for me. Just me telling what i thought.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:10 pm

think i will hold out for a .35

OJ · Post by OJ » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:08 pm

jlchucker wrote:I saw and handled one at my regular gunshop. I was NOT impressed, especially with the way the action opened. It was really rough, and seemed like a two-stage deal--requiring effort for the first half-way, then springing open on its own for the remainder of the lever throw. This is not, IMO, anywhere near the rifle that a Winchester 94 (even the later ones) or a Marlin 336 is. I've used lever guns since I started shooting as a kid (back when nobody said "pre-64") and I can only say that if I saw one of these Mossbergs for sale at a flea market I'd leave it there for the next guy.

That would be the right choice. After waiting some six weeks and having to pay some $12.00 shipping the gun to the repair facility - not done at the Mossberg factory - the extractor does work but, as noted previously, the action is rough and it will not cycle even one magazine of six rounds without a malfunction.

Haven't shot it yet but, I agree with the evaluation that it is indeed - no good.

blackhawk44 · Post by **blackhawk44** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:01 pm

Sadly, your review fits the impression I got when handling one at the store. A mediocre grade of apple crate stock matched to the precision of assembly of a chimpanze with a claw hammer. The round bolt and action bridge are only an expediency so as to not have to machine a mortised square bolt. A used '94 (even Ranger) of any vintage would be a far better investment.

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:49 pm

blackhawk44 wrote:Sadly, your review fits the impression I got when handling one at the store. A mediocre grade of apple crate stock matched to the precision of assembly of a chimpanze with a claw hammer. The round bolt and action bridge are only an expediency so as to not have to machine a mortised square bolt. A used '94 (even Ranger) of any vintage would be a far better investment.

Yep - you hit the nail on the head -

OJ · Post by OJ » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:32 pm

Update on my Mossberg 464.

After waiting some six weeks for the repair facility to replace the defective extractor, I got the rifle back and took it out to the range. Before I had gone through two magazines (6 each) the forend came loose. Turns out the little bolt through the band that holds it broke.

I've been owning (collecting - or better described as "accumulating") guns since 1932 - this is the worst experience by far. I have to agree with those who judged it to be junk (thing) to have been correct in their evaluation.

So much for not learning the right lessons with the 1958 Edsel I bought while still in my surgical training at the county hospital for Detroit in 1958.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:49 pm

Modern American Crapsmanship... Mossberg used to make a sturdy, albeit plain, decently priced product...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:22 am

Sorry about that OJ, you deserve better birthday presents. If a man has only ever bought two "edsels" in a lifetime that's pretty good over all. But I hope your wife finds that to be a null and void present and finds a suitable replacement. Happy Birthday anyway!

Grizz

OJ · Post by OJ » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:58 am

Grizz wrote:Sorry about that OJ, you deserve better birthday presents. If a man has only ever bought two "edsels" in a lifetime that's pretty good over all. But I hope your wife finds that to be a null and void present and finds a suitable replacement. Happy Birthday anyway!

Grizz

Thanks - she does more every day than I really deserve - for instance - she makes certain our schedule never interferes with my weekly trip to the shooting range or with my weekly (yep - correct spelling) motorcycle ride. To qualify as a ride, it has to be at least 100 miles.

My being lucky enough to have her for a wife more than makes up for the few "Edsels" in my life.

She takes care of me AND the big dogs also - big dogs being the excuse for our first date some 29 years ago. I'm really one lucky guy.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:32 am

Fellas,

I usually don't trash a product, but I had the chance to handle one of the new 464's yesterday. I cycled the action once, cocked the hammer once and sighted down the barrel once. I put that rifle back in the rack quicker than any I have ever held before. The store does have it priced good ($370 IIRC), but I think it will be there awhile.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:35 am

Just an observation from what I've read.
Mossberg must think we are like crack addicts, hard up for a fix, and will buy any junque they put out.
Of all the reports I've read on the 464, 9 out of 10 are negative. About the only reports I've read that were positive were from the gun magazines, and those "testers" are highly unlikely to tell you the truth.

I haven't seen one myself here in central IL, but at this point I'm not looking to hard either.

Joe

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:29 pm

I'm gonna get a hold of one before I make any judgements. I would still like to look at one up close just cause it's neat.

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:59 am

Andrew wrote:I'm gonna get a hold of one before I make any judgements. I would still like to look at one up close just cause it's neat.

If you like it, I know where you can get one for a greatly reduced price -

L.F.Combs · Post by **L.F.Combs** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:01 pm

I think I have talked on this before here, but this gun is stronger than the 94. It has been on here before right? Anyway it is a nice gun(the one I have). I have not had a problem one with the one I have. I just published my article on the gun first in gunblast, and now in my own magazine http://www.venompublishing.net I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a big blunder bust of a gun. A few good ones in the first batch then stuff.

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:46 pm

OJ wrote:
Andrew wrote:I'm gonna get a hold of one before I make any judgements. I would still like to look at one up close just cause it's neat.
If you like it, I know where you can get one for a greatly reduced price -

I'm retracting that offer - I wouldn't sell that Mossberg 464 to anyone 'cause I know what I'd think of someone who sold me a piece of stuff like that and I wouldn't want anyone evaluating me like that.

Got the extractor replaced and eventually got the screw for the forend replaced - dunno why it should tak six weeks to send a screw out - probably because they really wanted me to send the rifle to them for the replacement. Find that, despite the correct method of loading a tubular magazine correctly being described in the manual, it doesn't work in the rifle. Cartridges loaded to the rim don't stay but tend to all slide back - even out if not careful and, if they slide out in a partially loaded magazine, you can't load more cartridges because the last one in the magazine slides back - blocking use of the loading gate. It seems to me that no one bothered to check such design goofs before putting it on the market.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by my Winchester 94 30-30 but it seems to me it wouldn't have required much effort to have produced a quality rifle - Mossberg simply blew it.

L.F.Combs · Post by **L.F.Combs** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:40 pm

I can understand you being upset. I had the same type of problem with my 94 trapper, and one of my 94 rangers. Send it back to the company, and make them fix it. Let them know tht they have a messed up gun that needs to be straightened out. I am still shooting mine so far no problems, but I may have got a good one.

OJ · Post by OJ » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm

L.F.Combs wrote:I can understand you being upset. I had the same type of problem with my 94 trapper, and one of my 94 rangers. Send it back to the company, and make them fix it. Let them know tht they have a messed up gun that needs to be straightened out. I am still shooting mine so far no problems, but I may have got a good one.

It looks like I didn't make my point clear. My Winchesters have never been a problem. I started this thread about a new model 464 lever gun Mossberg brought out specifically to fill the niche created when Winchster went out of business. It got a glowing review in Shooting Times.

The extractor failed in less than a dozen shots. I've had reports from others of such failures the first shot. It went back to the factory and after a month or more, it was sent back. The bolt holding the forend broke immediately without it even being touched with a screwdriver and it took another month just to get a replacement screw.
I listed the many malfunctions above that are simply the result of a poorly designed rifle and poor workmanship. I have had a number of messages from others with the same experience.

IT'S JUNK !!! I've never had the experience of badmouthing anything before and haven't had an experience like this since 1958 when I bought an Edsel (no internet then) -

Anyone wanting a lever 30-30 would be much better off to buy a good used Winchester 94 or the equivalent in Marlin.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:34 pm

OJ wrote:
IT'S JUNK !!!

Well, it IS a Mossberg.

~Michael

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:55 pm

Well, it IS a Mossberg.

~Michael[/quote]

Dinna think that's quite fair. I have a great deal of respect for their Model 500 pump gun...

L.F.Combs · Post by **L.F.Combs** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:10 pm

I'm not saying that you didn't have issues, or that the gun is not becoming a piece of junk. I am just saying that the problem with the shells jamming the action has happened to two of my 94's and one that a friend owns. The gun may very well be junk. I can only takl about the gun that I have, and I have been shooting. LIke I said maybe I got a good one.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:42 am

Rather than junk, let's say rough. That's a word I can use to describe ever Mossberg I've ever handeled, and it doesn't suprise me that a person would have problems with a 464.

~Michael

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:54 am

The mailman just dropped off my copy of the December issue of GUNS magazine. Mr Taffin has a review of the new Mossberg lever gun in it.

OJ · Post by OJ » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:36 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:12 pm
OJ wrote:Current issue of Shooting Times reviews Mossberg's reincarnation of what basically looks like the Winchester 94 30-30 with some "upgrades". Has anyone here seen one?

Just when I thought I didn't have any need for another gun ! Fortunately, my 82nd birthday is coming up in August and my wife has been trying to find out what I want - and, I do think we need to provide help for our wives in any way we can.

Excellent, She buy's you the Mossberg for your B-day. You do a range report, load testing. And then give us the nod with a up-down grading of the Rifle.

Unfortunately, there seems to be much misunderstanding of the reason for my thread here and subsequent posts about the Mossberg 464.

It was requested I report my experience with the rifle for the benefit of fellow forum members and that is exactly what I did - nothing more or less. I certainly don't like admitting in public I made a mistake that, at my age, I should have known better than to make. My best excuse is I had no experience with Mossberg but expected better of them since they have been manufacturing shotguns for many years. My gun dealer tells me they are having difficulty getting enough firing pins for their new shotgun because the originals are breaking at a great rate.

If my thread & posts have been helpful for other members here - that was my intent - it was not loking for advice or just complaining about Mossberg.

major · Post by **major** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:00 pm

I have purchased a 464 and have to say it is a welcome firearm to my collection, the action took a little work to brake in and smooth up but after cycling it a few hundred times smoothed up like a well broke in winnie. Handles very much like the 94 until you feel the safety under your thumb and notice the bridge of steal over the rear of the bolt. But for $349 thru davidson's with lifetime warranty would gladly buy another. I have no complaints about the gun or the way it shoots if any it would be tang safety on a classic style levergun.

handyrandyrc · Post by **handyrandyrc** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:32 pm

I love mine, too. Works great now that I have the extractor bug worked out.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:35 pm

handyrandyrc wrote:I love mine, too. Works great now that I have the extractor bug worked out.

Not picking, this is just a question/comment.

How many live rounds do you have through it since you put in the new extractor? I wouldn't say I had the bugs worked out till at least 150rounds down range ... given it's history.

JMHO

Joe

major · Post by **major** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:40 pm

I have read a few post about extractor problems but I haven't had any problem at all with mine. but like i said earlier the action was kinda gritty when I first got it and took a few hundred cycles to smooth out.

L.F.Combs · Post by **L.F.Combs** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:01 pm

MIne is still going good not had a problem one out of mine. I noticed that they have another version on the market now that has a checkered stock, and pistol style grip.