Bison questions

[kooz]

I am thinking of doing a Bison hunt next month and have a couple questions that some of you guys can probabley answer. First, about how big, weight wise is a 2-year old cow or bull ? And also how about using a .45 Trapper to take one of this size ? Thanks for the input.

[20cows]

How close do you you get to stand?

If it is a calm animal at the time trajectory is not an issue, the 45 Colt is plenty.

[rjohns94]

Depends on the stock of the Bison, but you can expect 1-1200# on the hoof. I shot one of about 1200 pounds this past august, using my sharps in 45-70. I shot clean through Bison, taking out the spine and dropping her where she stood. My shot was 70 yards. I have to tell you, I didn't feel like I had too much rifle. I wish you luck with your hunt and your .45 choice. let us know how you do.

[kooz]

I will be able to get within 50 yards no problem.

[Buffboy]

Generally female bison will weigh 600-800 on their second birthday, bulls 650-850, assuming an all grass diet, generally(depends a lot on the grass), you're looking at the lower number. With feed management they will go at 900/950 & 1000/1100, respectively, and that's about where you want to sell for top dollar at slaughter. Heavy feeding will get them to that weight a couple/three months sooner. If they are bigger than that, generally, you are looking at an animal closer to 3 than 2. There's a lot of growth between 2 and 3.

As for your 45colt, it depends on the load and bullet construction. A solidly constructed bullet loaded to respectable velocity is better. A standard 45colt load even from a carbine would be a too weak. They aren't easy to put down, placement even with a heavy load is critical.

[O.S.O.K.]

The 45 Colt from a trapper is a power to be reckoned with.

However, if this were me, I'd be looking at a 45-70 with 400 grain bullets at 1600 fps at least.

You can get 1500 fps with a 300 grain bullet from your trapper, and that has plenty of poop but I'd personally want a bit more insurance.

[kooz]

I am going to look at loading some heavy bullets say about 325-340gr with the max charge of H-110. A guy I work with goes every year to shoot one of these two year old Bisons and uses a 300 Weatherby magnum, he says it took 6 well placed shots last time and the animal still walked around for a bit before dropping. Thanks for the input so far

[86er]

I've shot just over 40 bison/large bovine with my clients and universally they are tough to put down. I've seen a handful out of that number drop at the shot. You never know what will do it either, one day a .50 muzzleloader with 250gr bullet drops one in it's tracks - the next time a 375 H&H runs 4 or 5 bullets through the vitals before the beast reacts. My wife shot a bison in August with a 45 Colt. She practiced a few hundred rounds off-hand before the hunt. The load was a 300 grain hardcast at 1740 fps out of a 20" Win 94. One of the things we emphasize is to be prepared to shoot more than once if the animal remains on it's feet. In this case my wife shot a tight-behind-the-front leg shot at 40 yards. There was no reaction and the small bull (823 lbs we later found) started to walk off. She ran up closer to shorten the distance and fired more shots, all a little high and in the lungs. The bison went around 75 yards into some brush. She again ran to get close and was about 30 yards when the bison went though an opening. The last shot dropped in, hit just under the spine in the top of the lungs. None of the bullets exited.

I recommend a combo punch - the ole one-two of a 300 gr hardcast followed by a 300 gr Swift A-Frame. 3 of each ought to get your mag tube filled up enough. Frankly, the 45 Colt wasn't really enough gun - but it was the largest she could handle and it did get the job done with the multiple shots.

See link below:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ds#p108082

[slimster]

I guess the bison these days must be reading the latest gun mags. A whole bunch of those dummies in the 1860's and 70's were falling to those old, slow, 1100 to1300 fps B.P. loads. Heck, some of them didn't even realize that they had only been hit by a 44rf!...Go figure!

[Buffboy]

I guess the bison these days must be reading the latest gun mags. A whole bunch of those dummies in the 1860's and 70's were falling to those old, slow, 1100 to1300 fps B.P. loads. Heck, some of them didn't even realize that they had only been hit by a 44rf!...Go figure!

With a 44rf they probably didn't realize they had been hit. A 44rf was never a good bison killer, it would do it, but be prepared for a lot of shots, a long chase, and the possibility that the animal would get away. Dances with wolves was not true life. A 22lr will work if perfectly placed behind the ear at the correct angle but you can't count on that in a field situation.

A big old 45/50 caliber bullet weighing 350+gr(heavier the better) at those black powder speeds will penetrate a long ways and that's what we were recommending. If he gets a solidly constructed 300gr+ bullet moving over 1400 out of his 45 colt, it will work, but be ready with a follow up and probably more than one. With the heart/lung shot I've seen more animals go down faster with a good pass through broadhead hit than any bullet because they bleed out faster internally. Like 86er, I've seen several take 4-5 solid heart/lung hits with magnum rifles and not even flinch. They die, but it isn't always fast. The only time they go down fast is with a central nervous system hit. Their heart-lungs are twice as efficient as those of a cow and quite a bit larger. It can take a lot of damage to shut that down quickly.

[tman]

a .45 hard cast at decent velocity should penetrate a bison. at 50 yards, place a shot in the vitals and you made meat. we modern hunters seem to be way overgunned. i tend to go with a lighter, shorter rifle, as opposed to the big heavy, long range super magnums. good luck and shoot straight.

[Les Staley]

I shot a heifer (18 mos old) with a Shilo Sharps 45-70 and a 300 gr. hp handload .. one shot five inches below and five inches rearward of the ear, dropped like a bag of rocks.. the four quarters totaled 298 lbs hanging at meat locker. DELICIOUS!! Les

[scr83jp]

I learned the hard way when I shot a 7+ year old trophy bull the meat was rank worst tasting and smelling gave it away to a zoo,if ever again I'd only take a young prebreeding bull or cow for tasty meat

[Buffboy]

I learned the hard way when I shot a 7+ year old trophy bull the meat was rank worst tasting and smelling gave it away to a zoo,if ever again I'd only take a young prebreeding bull or cow for tasty meat

I'll second that, if you want good eating, a bull is best before 2. You can get away with up to 3, if it's separated from the cows for at least a couple months(better yet, never been with cows) and if it's getting some grain.

Older bulls kept separate from the herd for a while are edible ground into burger("usually" good eating). If there haven't been any cows in heat for a few months, a herd bull can be edible as burger too but all bets are off if they've been been rutting after cows with the herd. They can be so rank they're inedible so it can depend on when it is taken.

Cows "can" be good eating at nearly any age if they have some condition(just off good grass in the fall) and/or getting some grain for a couple months before they are killed. Still, the best eating with them is before 2 as well.

[Nath]

Alot of folk shoot their animal and stand there to watch the animals reaction, then when it does not go down their jaw drops in amazement. This is usually because they think their gun is so powerfull they think the animal will be lifted in to the air by it
Then there is the less intense cartridge shooters much like our selves that expect to have to shoot more than once!
Even if the super mags were super dooper why do they bother fitting magazines?

You know how close you gotta be and you know you gotta keep shooting.

Forget your buddies 300 it's worlds apart from 45 colt, the 300 is a newbie and your 45 colt has been around alot longer, the 300 tries to destroy it's bullet but yours will just try to dig deep.

Best wishes,

Nath.

[Rusty]

A friend of mine retired from teaching and then needed bypass surgery. After he recovered he realized he wasn't 18 and bullet proof any more so there was some things he wanted to do before he died. One thing was to kill a buff. He showed up with his .54 cal muzzleloader and they said, no dice. So the guide let him use a .270 he had. He dropped where he stood with one shot.

[jkbrea]

A friend of mine retired from teaching and then needed bypass surgery. After he recovered he realized he wasn't 18 and bullet proof any more so there was some things he wanted to do before he died. One thing was to kill a buff. He showed up with his .54 cal muzzleloader and they said, no dice. So the guide let him use a .270 he had. He dropped where he stood with one shot.

[/

The guide or the buffalo??
I'm not a muzzle loader but won't it do the job.

[rjohns94]

I am pretty sure my .54 with 110 grains of BP would be enough for a Bison. I have yet to recover a round ball out of this rifle

[20cows]

Guide and Predjudice.

Somebody ought to write a book.

[kimwcook]

I too think my TC 54 cal. Hawken would do the job. I'm not talking much over a 100 yd. shot mind you.

[Hillbillygunsmith]

I and several hunting partners have taken 11 bison on several hunts, really just a meat harvest, and a heavy 300 grain hard cast bullet at 1500-1700 FPS will do the job on a one shot kill if placed right. One of my partners used his TC 50 cal. Hawken black powder rifle to make a one shot kill on a small bull.
We were able to get within 60 yards and placed the shot about 3-4 inches below the base of the horn and about 3-4 inches back towards the neck. It will severe the spine where it connects with the skull. all four of us made instant one shot kills on four bison using this shot. The rest of us were using 45/70 cal rifles with Hornady 350 gr. flatpoint innerlock bullet.
On another bison meat hunt, the rancher did not allow us to shoot for the spine-skull shot due to past problems of poor shooting by hunters that blew off the animal's jaw, or were to low in the neck and having to chase the bison all over the country to finish it off. He would only allow a chest shot tight behind the shoulder. Two of my hunting partners shot the bison midway up and behind the shoulder as instructed by the rancher. Both animals refused to go down with second shots into the same area, all were good lung shots, until they put the third bullet below and behind the base of the horn. This third shot came after the animal refused to drop after standing 5 minutes from the first two shots.
I and another partner placed our shot into the lower chest area, heart shot just behind the leg, and both of those animals dropped within ten seconds after being hit by the above mentioned 45/70 load.
These bison are very tough and shot placement is very important to dropping them with one shot. Pratice enought where you can take the spine-skull shot or heart shot .

[86er]

Well put by Hillbillygunsmith. I should have clarified that my observations of large bovine rarely dropping to the shot applies exclusivley to shoulder/H/L shots. The base of the neck and head shots are extremely effective. Each individual must decide if they can confidently make that shot at the given range with their equipment.