OT: Has Unique and the other Alliant powders been changed?

[J Miller]

This has been hashed over a bunch of times on every forum I'm a member of; has Alliants powder changed from Hercules powder. Some say yes, some say no. And at least one forum owner; JohnK over on Handloaders.com has called Alliant to ask that question. Their answer to him was no, no change. Any differences will just be lot to lot variations.

Wellllllllll now, I'm not so sure about that.

Don't tell anybody but I collect powder cans. I got a 2-85 vintage Hercules Unique can in the mail today from a TRF member. On it right over the bar code was a sticker with the ingredients. I decided to compare those ingredients with my Alliant Unique that was purchased 1-05.

Here is the ingredient lists. I will type them out exactly as they appear on the can:

HERCULES UNIQUE, 2-85;
Hercules Canister Powder
NITROCELLULOSE - 9004-70-0
NITROGLYCERIN - 55-63-0
ETHYL CENTRALITE - 85983
ROSIN - 8050-09-7
POLYESTER - NJEIN #8009285003

ALLIANT UNIQUE, 1-05;
INGREDIENTS
Nitrocellulose CASRN 9004-70-0
Nitroglycerin CASRN 55-63-0
Diphenylamine CASRN 122-39-4
Ethyl Centralite CASRN 85-98-3
Rosin CASRN 8050-09-7
Polyester NJTSRN 800928-5003

The label format is a bit different, but with the exception of the Diphenylamine it's the same.

However the addition of that one ingredient is a change. So, has Alliant powders changed? The answer is yes.
Has the change made any significant differences in the powders performance?
To me, no it hasn't. I can't tell any difference from the loads I use. They all perform the same and the accuracy is unchanged.

Does this post answer any questions ..... I don't know. I thought it was interesting so I posted it.

If we have any chemists here maybe they can tell us what the Diphenylamine is and what might add to the mix of the powder. Oh, the 2400 can has the same ingredient list as the Unique can does.

Joe

[1886]

Not a chemist by any stretch of the imagination. Diphenylamine is a stabilizer. Unique is a single base powder. Heavy in nitrocellulose. Nitrocellulose will/does deteriorate in time yielding acidic byproducts. This is why some powders as they age smell acidic. At this point they should not be used and properly disposed. D is added to deter this process. "New" Unique is a little cleaner and less prone to deterioration over time. Just as flexible and useful as ever. It is a better product. 1886.

[J Miller]

1886,

Unique is a double based powder. It has both Nitrocellulose and Nitroglycerin.

I don't know much, but of that I'm sure. Since I just typed out the ingredients.

Joe

[Lefty Dude]

It sure is cleaner burning. I am using it more & more.

I have an 8# jug on order.

[1886]

You are correct Joe. I was not clear. What I should have said is "for the purpose our discussion" as it relates to Diphenylamine it is appropriate to think of Unique as single base. It is a double base powder, the nitroglycerin adds energy. D is a stabilizer, added to retard/deter the degradation of the powder. Thanks for the clarification. 1886.

[J Miller]

Here is a link to an article written by Mike Cumpston about Unique:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... ntent;col1

I found it very interesting and informative. There is also a link to an article about loading Unique by John Taffin on the left side of the page.

Joe

[ole pizen slinger]

Diphenylamine is used as a stabilizer in nitrocelulose/nitroglycerin type propellants. Over time these type propellants deteriorate by the loss of NO2 radicals from the nitrate (NO3) groups in the propellant substrate molecule. These NO2 radicals accelerate the degradation of the propellant. Diphenylamine and nitrodiphenylamine compounds act as a "scavenger" of the NO2 species thus slowing down the break-up of the nitrate esters in the propellant. Maybe this is not too technical and will give a simple explanation of the place of diphenylamine compounds in single and double base propellants.
ole pizen slinger

[J Miller]

Diphenylamine is used as a stabilizer in nitrocelulose/nitroglycerin type propellants. Over time these type propellants deteriorate by the loss of NO2 radicals from the nitrate (NO3) groups in the propellant substrate molecule. These NO2 radicals accelerate the degradation of the propellant. Diphenylamine and nitrodiphenylamine compounds act as a "scavenger" of the NO2 species thus slowing down the break-up of the nitrate esters in the propellant. Maybe this is not too technical and will give a simple explanation of the place of diphenylamine compounds in single and double base propellants.
ole pizen slinger

I understand what you described just fine. But it brings up another question. This ingredient was not listed in the 20 yo powder, so is it something they had to do because of the changes to make the new cleaner burning powder? Just a thought.

Joe

[Sixgun]

Diphenylamine is used as a stabilizer in nitrocelulose/nitroglycerin type propellants. Over time these type propellants deteriorate by the loss of NO2 radicals from the nitrate (NO3) groups in the propellant substrate molecule. These NO2 radicals accelerate the degradation of the propellant. Diphenylamine and nitrodiphenylamine compounds act as a "scavenger" of the NO2 species thus slowing down the break-up of the nitrate esters in the propellant. Maybe this is not too technical and will give a simple explanation of the place of diphenylamine compounds in single and double base propellants.
ole pizen slinger

This dude is smart As for the difference in Unique, it all chronos the same form the 1930's on. Its a little cleaner burning, they say, but well, you have to clean your guns anyway.(at least in my tests)

Joe, you collect cans? This is just a sampling of that junk I have laying around. Always looking to move it.---------Sixgun

[J Miller]

OK, now why in the heck don't we have a slobber icon. I need one right now.

That is one cool Model 1894 Winchester rifle you got there.




Oh the stack of old Hercules cans is pretty neat too. I think I might have the Unique and 2400 cans like those in the middle row. But I don't have the others.

Joe