J Miller wrote:claybob86 wrote:J Miller wrote:You said we could include copies so my vote in this one is MARLIN 1894. I learned to despise the 92 action.
Joe
Hi, Joe. My M1894 is my favorite rifle. Never fired a W92, but I'd be interested in why you don't like 'em.
claybob,
Well, it's probably a severe case of picking nits really. Let me go into some details.
My first lever gun in .45 Colt caliber was my 1985 vintage Win 94 Trapper. Nothing to do with this topic except that this gun functioned properly right out of the box and has never let me down .... EVER. I guess it sorta spoiled me. That's why I still have it.
Next came an early Marlin 1894 S in .45 Colt. This rifle was problematic out of the box. It was picky about what it would feed. Then once I tried to shoot it I found the chamber was so huge the firing pin would drive the entire cartridge, rim and all, into the chamber. Not good at all. I should have sent it back to Marlin but I got rid of it.
Next was a Marlin 1894CS in .357 mag. Oh what a sweet little carbine that was. Smooth, well fitted up, accurate, functioned great for the most part, although it was picky about certain SWCs.
Next was an early Marlin 1894 Cowboy with the 24" barrel. Oh this one really tripped my switch. Nice balance, perfect functioning, smooth, and solid.
It too had a problem with the barrel somewhere. I couldn't get it to group at all. Another case of, I shoulda sent it back to Marlin and had them fix it.
But financial problems caused this one and the 1894CS to be sold. Waaaaaaa
Then came the Rossi Puma in .45 Colt. Bought it new in the box with all the papers from a guy at a local gun show. Good price too. Beautiful bluing, fit was fair to middlin, function, well it would not feed ANYTHING. Not even factory ammo. I ended up sending this gun to M&M Gunsmithing to be fixed. But it was so old even though it was NIB it was out of warranty. With shipping and all the repair costs I paid almost as much as the gun cost me just to get it to work. After that it still wouldn't work properly. Screws stripped out, the magazine end cap screw hole in the bottom of the barrel was drilled off center and eventually peened out. This caused the end cap screw to break. I had trouble with ejector spring that M&M put in. It was too light. Had to redo that.
Besides the mechanical trouble I had with this thing I disliked the tiny loading port. I almost always cut my fingers when loading the thing.
Finally I got so absolutely disgusted I sold it to a gunsmith for parts. I simply could not sell it to another shooter.
My last pistol caliber lever gun was a home run. I bought a Marlin 1894 CBC Limited. It functions perfectly. Feeds even the long nosed Keith bullets like water through a funnel, is accurate, balances well, feels good, and looks good too. Is it perfect, no. But it works.
All of the guns I had trouble with could have been made to work properly with some fixing. But the Rossi was just a piece of junque. And every time I think of shooting it I come back to that tiny loading gate. The Marlin 1894 gate is nicely sized and causes no cuts or scrapes like the Rossi did.
So, I guess it's a combination of personal preferences and experiences that have made me hate the 92s.
Would I buy another Rossi or Win 92 copy? Maybe. It just depends on the gun I guess.
Would I buy another Marlin 1894? In a heartbeat.
Joe
So in fact, you "despise" the Rossi copy of the '92 Winchester.
You should really try the real thing.
I'll relate a story here.
Some years ago, I did a rifle trade, that saw me trade a wall hanger black powder rifle, for a junker '92 Winchester missing most of it's internals.
The barrel was pitted inside and out, the action was likewise pitted, and the stock has more marks and gouges on it than you can imagine.
It was originally in 38-40.
A long term search for parts, largely from ebay of all places, got the rifle into firing.
I bought lots of parts that turned out to not fit, because they were for either the wrong cartridge, or some copy of the '92 that didn't cross over. Frustrating.
In 38-40, with the original barrel, it wouldn't group under 12" at 25 yards! It sucked, and was disappointing. It fed, it functioned flawlessly, smooth as butter. But I can't have that kind of accuracy, particularly because my objective was hunting.
I tried enough handloads to supply powder for a naval gun, with no success.
I decided that I needed a new barrel.
I also decided that I wanted to move to a 44, so I could use it as a close range deer rifle with a bit more confidence than I could with the 38-40.
I had zero luck locating a decent used barrel (IE: cheap, that's me)
A friend on Baffin Island (Yes, that's right, arctic circle Baffin Island) Sold me a brand new barrel in 44-40 still in the white, for $100 CDN.
Not only did this barrel fit, It indexed!
Now I own a strange little rifle, with Model 92 on the receiver, and model 94 on the barrel.
I took it to the range, and, after the usual safety of a remote firing load, proceeded to fire some groups.
Really crappy groups
This could not be, it made no sense at all. Everything checked out perfectly, close examination of every part of the rifle ensued.
I removed the forearm, magazine, and bands. Groups improved, but were still not what I wanted.
I went through a simple pressure point reliving process on the bands, and the wood, and the groups are now the same with the wood on, or off. Still not good enough, hovering about eight inches.
The rifle is so handy, and such a joy to shoot, I just can't stop playing with it.
I decide it must be my handloads, and I start switching powder, and screwing around with unlisted loads.
That's where the little rifle saved my bacon.
I made up a load, in fact a series of loads, based on cartridge capacity, derived from the 44 Mag. (No, I won't post those loads)
I had a large block of loads from well below what I considered safe, into questionable territory.
I was looking for groups.
At about one third of the way through that block, a deer wandered out on the range.
Now this "range" is about 75 yards long, and, I just was dumbfounded by the doe, who seemed to be ignoring my presence.
The rifle had cooled enough for another go, so i picked up another round, my eyes on the deer, and let fly.
The world seemed to stop for a second. It sounded like I'd fired a magnum. Smoke curled from the action.
I was a tad stunned. Even the deer seemed to take note, and bugged out.
I looked at the block, and let out an "Oh F**K!"
I'd grabbed the highest load in the block.
The action was, at first, frozen shut.
in a few minutes, it relented, and opened easily, presenting me with the separated case, which the spent primer fell easily out of. Putting the primer back in, it rattled around in the over sized hole.
I looked skyward. "Thankyou"
On the way home, I started thinking this through. It shouldn't have happened. The loads in that block should have had no where near that kind of power . I resolved to check the scale at home, still set, at the highest charge I'd used.
What I saw when I entered that room, made me blanche a bit.
I'd moved the wrong weight on the scale!
What should have been a load running max, was an INSANE proof load.
Over the next few weeks, I completely disassembled, and checked the rifle inside and out.
It makes no sense, there is no apparent damage.
I continued to shoot the rifle, after again, a few remote firings, and gradually, the groups improved. It was just barrel break in apparently.
a complete disassembly at a later date, and a home brewed hot tank re-blue, turned out like this:
Accuracy continues to improve, and I've taken a small doe with it.
Groups?
Well, this was admittedly a fluke, but it did it none the less:
Incidentally, I've given up on doing my own load development. Experienced though I might be at reloading, I just don't need to mess with that kind of trouble. I do not recommend it to others either. Particularly with low pressure cartridges. The clues to over pressure are much harder to see than with a rifle. You can be over your head before you see anything.
I think it's a keeper.
I may even keep the old stock on it. The dents and gouges tell a long long story.
):
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