Questions: M94 for silhouette

[DarryH]

I want to try cowboy rifle silhouette shooting.
There are three classes, and I have two covered.
I still need a rifle caliber gun.

I cannot decise on caliber.
Here are my choices: 32WS, 38-55, 7x30 Waters, 30-30.
I have listed those in order, my favorite listed first.

NOW...is my thinking correct??
Range is out to 200 yards, and some to 300 yards.
I want to keep recoil down, but want to knock down the targets reliably. I hope to use cast lead home loaded ammo.

Any and all help appreciated.

Thanks
Good Shootin!!
DarryH
Nebraska

[Griff]

If I didn't already have a bunch of .30-30s, I'd go with a .38-55.

[El Chivo]

I'd go with the 38-55, don't they shoot 200-220 grain bullets?

With silhouette, you don't need a flat trajectory, just reset your sights or practice different holds. A 30-30 can do the job but ringing a ram is, well, frustrating.

I have seen quite a few ringers with 150 grain bullets though not with 170's. 200 grain bullets out of the 35 Rem slap them right down. I have shot a lot of long range out of my .357, mostly with 158 grain bullets, and they usually do the job but not with authority. 180 grainers work fine but they take a long time to get out there.

The crowd that shoots silhouette usually has an appreciation for the traditional calibers and the 38-55 has cool factor. If that 32 WS will shoot a big (170+) bullet that would work too.

[DarryH]

I do already own a Winchester Model 1886 in 45-70.
I really don't need all the extra recoil, plus the gun lettered to 1888, so I don't want to put a ton of rounds through it.
I don't know much of anything about the 38-55.
Any good on-line places to read up on it???
I have been leaning towards the 32WS with the 170Gr bullets. These guns are much harder to find, and more expensive than the 38-55 chambered guns.
Thanks again,
Good Shootin!!
DarryH

[jdad]

The rams are at 200m. The NRA rules state that the ram has to be balanced so that a 150gr 30-30, factory load, fired from a 20" carbine will knock it down. I still have "rung" rams,with a 170gr bullet, and have seen a 115gr 25-35 drop them when hit in the butt.

With that being said, any rimmed cartridge firing a 180gr plus bullet will drop any ram pretty much anywhere you hit it. Look around for an old Marlin 336A (24" barrel) chambered in 35 remington.

If your pistol caliber rifle is a 45 or 44 you can easily use that rifle for both classes. 158gr 357mags will drop the ram, but it's a matter of shot placement.

[jlchucker]

DarryH, I hear you with your comment about the 45-70. Last summer I noticed something that may be handy to know. After reading some of Mike Venturino's comments about loading for old calibers in his book about shooting lever action rifles of the old west, I bought some AA5744. Loaded some 405 grain cast bullets for my Marlin with it. Went to the range, where my gunsmith was playing around with a single-shot 45-70, identical bullets to mine, and loaded with RL7. Our loads, according to a couple of manuals we had with us, were comparable, velocity-wise. We had a good day shooting and visiting. We used each other's loads in both rifles. Point of impact at 50 yd was the same for both, and groups were both pretty tight. The big difference was felt recoil. It surprised us both. AA5744 gives the impression that you are shooting a pipsqueak load, but not so! I'd hunt deer with those cast bullets loaded with 5744. Accurate, pleasant to shoot. A lot less recoil for some reason. I don't do cowboy shooting, so I don't know what the actual requirements are, but maybe, if you already haven't done so, you may want to get a can of 5744 and try some 45-70 loads with it.

[w30wcf]

DarryH,
A few years back I witnessed an accomplished levergun shooter run 12 rams in a row @ 200 with a .45-70 Marlin.
His load was 12 grs. Unique under a 400 gr. cast bullet. He would raise the muzzle to position the powder to the rear of the case prior to firing. Those slow moving 400 gr. bullets sure made a distinctive sound when they hit!

Have fun!
w30wcf

[Wind]

Hey there - All of your choices will work fine. Get started and gain some experience, shoot a match or two with your 45-70. Most everyone shooting will of course have a formula AND an opinion! I use a 30-30 (circa 1897) with a 170 grain, gas checked bullet over 10 grains of Unique and it works fine. You can't launch a bullet big enough to knock over a ram if you don't actually hit it!! When I still had my '86, a 350 grain bullet was comfortable to shoot and reliable to boot. The game sure is fun, and whacking those chickens sure is hard...I'm usually grinning so much I can't get a proper cheek weld on my stock!! Hope alittle of this helps. Watch yer top knot. Wind

[jnyork]

You need to be less concerned with what cartridge you use and more concerned with being able to hit them! Silhouette is 96% shooter and 4% equipment. Any of your selected calibers will do the trick nicely. There are more shooters using the 30-30 than all the others combined, but I think that is simply because there are more of them. I alternately use a 30-30, a .32 Special and a .33WCF and can tell no difference in my scores, my average being about 28/40. I dont care what you shoot, you will occasionally ring a ram, that's just the way the game is.

For both my 30-30 and the .32 Special I use a 170 grain gas checked bullet and 24 grains of 3031. Doesn't bark too hard and knocks 'em down.

[El Chivo]

and if you don't like recoil, some shooters develop a stouter load for rams only.

[GEOFF]

A bunch of good advice above. A great question too, by the way.

I've been shooting this game for a while and like Wind says, it will make you smile, a LOT of fun!

I've shot long range with these 4 calibers, .40-65, .45-70, .30WCF, and .38-55. Multiple matches with each.

My PERSONAL opinion, is that you truly handicap yourself using the big heavy guns in the bigger heavier calibers. If I'm trying to just have fun, experiencing a fine old lever gun, I'll take a .40-65 or my .45-70 and IT IS FUN but seldom, at least around here do you see a big bore shooter as MATCH WINNER! Like has been said above, I use 5744 exclusively in these big old guns, of 1880's vintage.

Now the .38-55 is a FINE CHOICE, I shot my personal high score, an incredible day when I hit 38 out of 40 targets and won the match in a shootoff, using a Black Powder Marlin 1893 in .38-55. If I was shooting a match TOMORROW and really going for the win, I'd use that rifle in .38-55. But I have put HOURS in on load developement, finding the right diameter bullets, etc......... but I LOVE the .38-55 cartridge, I've just found it to be a bit finicky.

So now we get down to the present. I'm STILL in search of the perfect long range silhouette lever gun. Experience has taught me to look to these 2 calibers if one is REALLY serious, .30WCF or the .32Win special. Like has been said above, I'd love to try a nice 26" barreled .25-35 sometime. I don't have one though so have no experience.

Personally I'm continuing my search looking at these factors. The rifle has got to be fairly old, don't know why but I just like old stuff. Its got to be at least a 26" barrel, don't really care if round or octagon, prefer octagon but mostly I'm looking at the rifle that has the right look to me. Either a Winchester 1894 or a smokeless Marlin 1893.

The guy that is the toughest to beat around here and shoots most consistently shoots a RELINED 26" barreled 1894 Winchester 1894. He's the guy I beat that unbelieveable day with my 1893 Marlin .38-55. I just think it's easier with a .30WCF.

All the other posts in this thread, I agree with. Great posts! Absolutely true about .357 Mag rifles, need 180 grain bullets on the 200 meter rams. Even then .357 Mag is absolute minimum!!!!!!!!!

Hope this helps! Warning, this lever silhouette game is addictive and will teach you more about good shooting than any thing you've ever done. It sure has been enlightening and a challenge for me.

Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geoff

[hammerman]

I use my 25-35 with 117grainers most of the time and the 30-30 with 150 grainers. I have only lost 4 rams with the 25-35 in 2 years and about 5 with the 30-30. I prefer the 25-35. At the nationals in Raton last year, two of the top shooters were using a 25-35. The top 2 aggregate winners both used a 25-35 . The hardest part is hitting the targets .

[RIHMFIRE]

I vote for 38-55

[DarryH]

I own a Winchester (Miroku) in 357 Magnum.
It is very accurate, and has been my cowboy action shooting gun for the last seven years.
I also own a pair of 92's, one in 38-40, and one in 32-20.
I have the pstol cartidge category covered.
Since I own a 9422, I also have the rimfire category covered.

I want to shoot cast lead bullets in the rifle cartridge category.
I was told the 32WS was better for this than the 30-30.

It sounds like I should just go buy most any of these guns mentioned,
and start shooting. I want a 24-26" barrel, and prefer a shotgun butt. The curved butts are nice looking though.

I will be shooting the 1886 in 45-70 once in a while. You can't leave these guns sit, or they get lonely!!!!!

I like OLD Marlins, but the newer models have WAAAYYYY too much wood on them for my taste. Arguably, they MIGHT be more accurate than the 94 Winchester, but unless they are older, they just don't catch my fancy. I bet I'm not the only one that doesn't like to own ugly guns!! (now I'm in trouble I bet)

I appreciate all the help. In these parts, it is hard to get a lot of knowledgeable conversation on lever guns.

Good Shootin!!
DarryH