Browning 86 Carbine

[Hawkins]

I have a new to me Browning `86 carbine, and I was hoping y'all could help me out with a couple of questions:

1) I've seen several discussions about lengthening the throat, and I've already noticed that a 405 grain cast bullet seated to the crimp groove will just chamber. Exactly how far do you typically lengthen the throat, so that most loads will feed through it? Does that have any effect on the accuracy?

2) I think I'd like a receiver-mounted peep sight on it, and I'm leaning towards the Lyman. Anybody have experience with this, good or bad? And is there enough metal at the muzzle to cut a dovetail for a different front sight?

Thanks in advance!

[Tycer]

Heavy recoil bent the base on my Lyman. The Williams has a lock screw for the elevation which might keep that from happening.

[Leverluver]

If the bullet you want to use WILL chamber and you are not pushing the upper limits of pressure, I wouldn't bother with the throating. It does little harm and may even do good for a cast bullet to be somewhat seated into the rifling. There are some bullets (mostly jacketed, the Hornady 350FP comes to mind) that you will not get away with unless you throat. In that case, go ahead but no need to get carried away. A taperd throat to get rid of the edge at the end of the chamber will handle pretty much anything you run into. I would not go wild and actually freebore the chamber as that can (if it is not the perfect size) do bad ju-ju to cast accuracy.

[Old Savage]

That is one of the neatest guns around - few here have written about shooting them in a while.

[Hobie]

I haven't written more about shooting mine because I haven't gotten to. Too many other "toys". I put the Williams FP-71 on mine. Works a treat. No problems. I'm not shooting light .458 Win Mag equivalents though. Really tightened groups and did NOT require a new front sight.

[Mike D.]

My Browning '86 SRC is torn down to basic parts. I removed the fugly finish from the wood and am reducing the "Browning Belly", too. I would like this gun to be a .45-90 to take the strain from my original Winchester, so that's what it will become before it's put back together. I consider all of the recently made 1886 rifles as "experimental" guns, with no value loss from "customizing" them.

[Grizz]

Leverluver nailed it pretty good. It seems like it's the bullets with the fat ogives that give the saami chamber fits. A truncated cone shape glides right in. I think it isn't designed to shoot the postel bullets that seat far out.

Grizz

[Malamute]

I used a steel Lyman receiver sight on mine, a No 56. I like the regular front sight OK, but am planning on fitting a sourdough type blade into the factory front base. Just drifting the pin out, and fitting a sourdough type blade into it. Already did that on my 94 carbine.

[71fan]

1) I've seen several discussions about lengthening the throat, and I've already noticed that a 405 grain cast bullet seated to the crimp groove will just chamber. Exactly how far do you typically lengthen the throat, so that most loads will feed through it? Does that have any effect on the accuracy?

I bought mine used, and it had action work done on it, so it may have had throat work as well. I don't really know how to check for sure, but I will tell you that my handloads using Laser Cast 405s cycle and chamber perfectly fine. I have also shot LeverEvolutions with no problem.

FWIW, my handloads with the 405s group around 2-1/2" at 100yds, while the LEs consistently group to 3/4" at 50yds and 1-3/4" at 100yds. That is about as good as I can shoot with open sights, so perhaps the rifle would do even better with the LEs if (God forbid) I put a scope on the rifle (which I WON'T).

2) I think I'd like a receiver-mounted peep sight on it, and I'm leaning towards the Lyman. Anybody have experience with this, good or bad? And is there enough metal at the muzzle to cut a dovetail for a different front sight?

I am using a vintage Redfield 70 and am very pleased with it. If I had to choose between the new aluminum Lyman or Williams I'd go with the Williams. I have not been overly impressed with the new Lyman 66 sights - they never seem to tighten up securely. Not so with the Williams. If you can find an older steel Lyman 66 or a vintage Redfield 70/80, those would would be my top picks. The Williams just doesn't seem to have that "vintage" look about it.

I don't know about the front sight. I like mine just fine for now - I have come to prefer a medium width blade with a nice square top for paper punching. But I still prefer a bead for hunting. So I'm also interested if'n the front can be dovetailed.

[SFRanger7GP]

Hawkins:

I have a tang sight you are welcome to if you want it; PM me.

I had the same problem with my Browning 45-70 SRC. I had to run all of my loads (except 300gr bullet loads) into a taper sizer die (or the sizer die with decapper removed) to get them to chamber. Mine shot 300gr bullets so good that I ended up only using that bullet. From what I understand, the 45-70 should not have a throat. I brought this problem up a while back and I really didn't understand it until I got my Shiloh and started loading BP cartridges.

[Modoc ED]

It seems that the all steel Lyman sights are hit-and-miss these days. I've seen more than a few reports of the sight adjustment screws stripping out on them. Regardless, my personal preference would be for the Williams FP series.

[Malamute]

"It seems that the all steel Lyman sights are hit-and-miss these days. I've seen more than a few reports of the sight adjustment screws stripping out on them......"


I'm confused about your comment. "all steel Lymans these days". As far as I know, Lyman hasnt made an all steel receiver sight since the 50's or 60's. I'm not overly impressed by the aluminum ones they make today, the slides seem to bend easily. The Williams are thicker in the slide area. Functionally they are fine, but I don't care for the way they look. Just me. I look for Lyman 56's (all steel), or the steel 66's.

[Mike D.]

One of My ELs still has a Williams sight, but it will go as soon as I can locate another mint Lyman #56, or maybe a #38. The sight will probably cost me more than the guns did.

[TNBigBore]

Frankly, I would stay away from the current manufacture Lyman sights. I have had several that were wobbly. They have really let the quality slip in recent years. The Williams is a rock solid sight, but I don't care for the sharp corners on the new Williams sights either. I like the older Williams or Lyman sight if given the choice, but will settle for the newer Williams sights if I can't find an older one.

[tman]

if there was a hall of fame for hunting, exploring rifles the 86 carbine would be in it at the top!

[Modoc ED]

"It seems that the all steel Lyman sights are hit-and-miss these days. I've seen more than a few reports of the sight adjustment screws stripping out on them......"


I'm confused about your comment. "all steel Lymans these days". As far as I know, Lyman hasnt made an all steel receiver sight since the 50's or 60's. I'm not overly impressed by the aluminum ones they make today, the slides seem to bend easily. The Williams are thicker in the slide area. Functionally they are fine, but I don't care for the way they look. Just me. I look for Lyman 56's (all steel), or the steel 66's.

You know, I think you're right. They are not all steel anymore are they? Another brain fanny burp by an old fanny burp. At any rate, the reports I've seen of the Lyman sights of late have not been positive.

Sorry for the confusion.

[salvo]

16 posts and not one picture? You guys are slipping
I cant add much, my carbine chambers most the loads that I use in my 1894G and like 71fan said it chambers the 405 gr Laser Cast so I'm happy with it. I have Vintage steel Lyman's on both my Model 71's I would love to find one for the 1886. I just cant make my self drill holes for the Williams sight. I really should just order one of those repro Lyman 21's and be done with it!

[Mike D.]

No pictures? OK, here's mine.

[Malamute]

Here's mine, the part with the Lyman No 56 sight anyways.






And here it is halfway up the side of the Beartooth Mts, leaning against a tree that a grizzly had bitten. At least it looked like grizzly hair in the tree, not black. I chopped mine to 20" also.





Mike, what happened to the pithy, fibrous, non metal parts of your gun? Is this the new thing? Are we all going to be doing this soon?

[salvo]

Now thats more like it!

[Pathfinder09]

Here is mine. I have a Lyman 66WB reveiver sight in it and it works great. I have fired all types of ammo through her with no problem including 430 grain +P grizzly ammo. It wasn't broke so I have found no reason to fix it.

[71fan]

Nice pics / rifles guys.

I'm not allowed to post pictures of mine anymore. Hobie gets upset

[kimwcook]

I think Mike D. is going for the lightweight, freefloated bbl. concept.

Pathfinder, that's one well fed mule.

[Pathfinder09]

He is tuff old mule I'll tell you that. He does like to eat though.

[Hawkins]

Wow, lots of good pics and info, especially about the sights.

SFRanger7GP, I VERY MUCH appreciate the offer on the tang sight, but I've never quite been able to like them. They always seem to be in the way of my thumb, or folded over, or bumping a hat bill, or something.

Salvo, you mentioned that you couldn't bring yourself to drill holes for the Williams. Is there something that doesn't require drilling and tapping?

Malamute, did it work out well having the barrel shortened? Any problems with refitting the barrel band, front sight, etc?

Thanks very much to everyone!

Hawkins

[Malamute]

I had a local gunsmith do the chop job. He did good, mostly. He had the mag tube one turn shy of all the way in when he drilled the small hole for the mag cap screw in the barrel.


I do like it at 20" tho. Very much.

As far as front sights, you can remove the blade from the factory base and file a dovetail type bead or sourdough down into a blade type to fit into the sight base, and pin it in place. Years ago, Lyman and others offered replacement front sights for the early type carbines.

[tman]

I had a local gunsmith do the chop job. He did good, mostly. He had the mag tube one turn shy of all the way in when he drilled the small hole for the mag cap screw in the barrel.


I do like it at 20" tho. Very much.

As far as front sights, you can remove the blade from the factory base and file a dovetail type bead or sourdough down into a blade type to fit into the sight base, and pin it in place. Years ago, Lyman and others offered replacement front sights for the early type carbines.

hate to be nosey, but what did the shortening job cost? ALWAYS WANTED IT DONE ON MINE. your gun is way cool

[Malamute]

I believe it cost me either $60 or $80. That was cut and crown, reset (silver solder) the front sight base, shorten the mag tube (from the front, the rear end is threaded) reset the front band, and probably cold blue the parts needed.

I had mine done maybe 4 or so years ago. The guy retired a couple years ago.

[tman]

I believe it cost me either $60 or $80. That was cut and crown, reset (silver solder) the front sight base, shorten the mag tube (from the front, the rear end is threaded) reset the front band, and probably cold blue the parts needed.

I had mine done maybe 4 or so years ago. The guy retired a couple years ago.

thank you, sir. good price. gonna start shopping around mine to get done

[big bear]

Here is mine. I have a Lyman 66WB reveiver sight in it and it works great. I have fired all types of ammo through her with no problem including 430 grain +P grizzly ammo. It wasn't broke so I have found no reason to fix it.

Do you know one could find riding mules for sale? How do they handle rocky trails, cold country? thanks!

[JFE]

Malamute - was yours originally fitted with a saddle ring ? If so, was it welded over ?

[Pathfinder09]

They can be found through private ranchers. Not one special place.
They are great in the mountains, sure footed. I prefer them to horses for the back country. But they can be a handfull at times but well worth it to me.

[Malamute]

"Malamute - was yours originally fitted with a saddle ring ? If so, was it welded over ?"


Yes, it had a ring. I'm not fond of them. I removed it and made a flller screw for it from a metric allen set screw, filed the end flat and cut a slot in it. You can see the mar in the finish around the ring stud hole. They torque them TIGHT! I used a big crescent wrench. It twisted the ring up pretty badly, but I was only concerned about getting it off.



There's a Mule Days in Ralston Wyoming, a little town near Cody. It's in June sometime, but I'm not sure when. Would likely be some good contacts about mules there. Some folks around here like them for mountain riding, claiming they are steadier than horses on bad trails. I have no experience with them.

[big bear]

thanks, this will keep me from buying more lever rifles!,Hope to have a riding mule to show off some day down the road and up the mountain, just needed some inspiration.

[brucew44guns]

I've owned a NIB 86 carbine for over 20 years, this posting has got me anxious to take it's virginity away this week-end. If I don't, someone else will in a lot less than 20 years, I suspect.

[Malamute]

Shoot it! You'll like it!


I, for one, have no reservations about drilling holes, cutting, etc on a gun I want to use.

[Pathfinder09]

20 years and you ain't shot it? Git a rope!