OT - Pepper Spray

[cnjarvis]

I'd like to get my wife something for self defense but at the moment, she is neither proficient nor comfortable with firearms. Pepper spray seems to be fairly easy to get but what kind/brand??? I understand that some are stronger than others and some have different spray patterns. Ideally, I'd like something that would melt the perp's eyeballs from their sockets...

[Blaine]

Ya know......If you know someone in LE, they could prolly point you to a brand that THEY would trust, or the Dept trusts......... I'll bet that 10% bear spray would melt 'em pretty good!

[AJMD429]

In medical school (30 years ago... ) there were still a few faculty members who weren't loony leftist hoplophobes, and I remember a forensic pathologist saying he had removed several cans of pepper spray from the vaginal and anal cavities of rape victims, and drolly commenting he'd never had to remove a firearm.

Perhaps proper use of a truly effective spray would be helpful, but he felt that the 'type' of women (no offense intended) who would only use pepper spray would wind up losing any violent confrontation anyway, whereas the type who would offer a 125 gr JHP at 1200 fps generally not only doesn't 'lose' encounters with badguys, but often her mere demeanor lets them know ...it just ain't worth it...

Life can have harsh (and fatal) lessons, but we always hope being 'civilized' will protect us. Most of the time it does, but being able to get really 'uncivilized' on a moment's notice can help preserve human life, as well as 'civil' society...

Ask her what kind of 'tool' she'd be comfortable if someone threatened her CHILDREN - odds are unless you are a Class III owner, you won't have a weapon suitable for her in that situation. Women make men look like pansies when you threaten their children, and most would say a flamethrower or M-60 would be their weapon of choice if anyone dared harm their child.

Just remind them that until their 'child' is about, say, 60 years old, that child will NEED her. Even a woman without her own children likely has a circle of people who depend on her emotionally, intellectually, and sometimes financially, and physically. Remind her of that.

Remind yourself too, if you ever have any doubts about the legitimacy of 'self-defense'; even as cantankerous and onery as you are, someone probably depends on you, so you need to take care of yourself.

[kimwcook]

It's been a long time since I've even carried OC. I think we're now up to 15% oleoresin capsicum. There are three different types of sprays, foam, fog (cone) or stream. I personally prefer the fog/cone as you don't have to be very accurate. You just fog the perps head in the spray and they're covered. One must be aware of prevailing wind though as the sprayer can become the target. A really dedicated perp will get the job done even after being sprayed as any Marine can tell you CN/CS isn't anything you can't overcome.

[Cliff]

O.C. spray works by pain and blinding the assailant. I worked at a prison and had the fun of getting sprayed in training each year. As mentioned the spray or mist cone type works well, but wind can fire it back at you. A foam is great. Hard spray is good as well. I have found the tear gas sprays are iffy if the subject is drunk, on drugs or highly agitated. When used get the heck out of the area, don't stand looking for effect. If possible get a training class where you get to be sprayed and to spray it as well. Carry the biggest container you can, the little key chain types don't hold enough. Great for stuffy heads too. Your nose will run till next tuesday.

[Hobie]

We sell a lot of the Sabre products.

[Sixgun]

Man! I vote AJMD for President. Thats what I call common sense.

I'm 100% with Doc. Most women (or men) believe criminals have a "reasoning mind". They don't. They are a diffferent animal. You can't think that a "little spray of mace" will make them change their mind and therefore will leave you alone. A-n-i-m-a-l They need to be shot in the upper torso or head. If you are bbbaaaaaadddd, a nice 10 inch blade straight in their throat.------------------------Sixgun

[CowboyTutt]

CN, I have to agree with AJMD. I just finished my CCW (Concealed Weapons Carry) course and I can tell you that the marksmanship involved to pass the course is less than stellar. In fact, you WANT 8-9 inch groups at very short range to do as much tissue damage as possible. Get her a good 22, maybe 22 mag, and practice a bit, or just take the course and come back to qualify later.

We had to watch an outstanding video by Col. Jeff Cooper. He created a "color coding" system of awareness. The thing that you and your wife need to realize is that self-defense is about your state of mind. Without an awareness of your surroundings, and the mental ability to recognize a threat and be ready to deal with it using potentially lethal force, IT WON'T MATTER whether she has pepper spray or not. The important training is all mental and you can't buy that in a can of pepper spray. Woman who have a CCW already had this training which is why I suspect the forensic doctor never had to remove a gun from a sensitive spot.

She needs to take a self-defense course of some sort. There are many "woman specific" courses, and they don't necessarily have to involve the use of guns. But I can tell you that a good CCW course is about as good as it gets in this regard.

Please consider this carefully.

-Tutt

[piller]

I think AJMD429 makes a lot of sense. My wife trusts 147 grain 9mm in an XD, and my 19 year old daughter is counting the days until she can take the class to carry her Kahr. My daughter likes the looks of those new Hornady rounds with the plastic in the nose.

[madman4570]

Any Women or Wife/Daughter etc. that you care about get them the book"The Gift of Fear"by Gavin De Becker in paperback for $7.99

This is an absolute must for them to read!
As far as protection,have her take a GOOD CCW defense class and get her a good gun!

[CowboyTutt]

For the record:

White: no awareness of your surrounding. You are not even considering that your enviroment might contain a threat. Most people believe that they are safe, which is of course an illusion, and live their whole lives in "the white".

Yellow: You are aware of your surrouondings, but very relaxed. You are not in a state of agitation, just relaxed awareness and taking the time to look around you and see what is happening.

Orange: Heightened state of awareness. You have seen something that looks suspicious and warrents specific awareness, like the guy in the full length trench coat and its 85 degrees outside.

Red: High probability of serious threat and you resolve yourself to most likely having to take lethal action to STOP THE THREAT, to you or others.

It is very hard to harm a man or woman who is just in "yellow status" because they are aware, and the perp can see that they are. He will go on looking for the one "living in the white".

Hope this makes sense. All the training is mental.

"The Gift of Fear" is an outstanding read on the subject! Thanks for reminding me.

-Tutt

[cnjarvis]

Guys, I agree that there's no better "pepper spray" than hot lead but I need to give her something to bridge the gap until I can get her there.

[BigSky56]

The only thing pepper is good for is eggs & taters if it worked all the cops and wildlife/warden guys wouldnt carry guns. danny

[deerwhacker444]

These Mace Pepper Guns are interesting.

Then, if that doesn't work, there's always 26.5 mm Flare Gun to the Face!

[CowboyTutt]

Try a womens self-defense course that does not involve guns.

-Tutt

[Wind]

Hey there cnjarvis - Check out www.foxlabs.com. They build some pretty good stuff. They even sell an inert practice container (they come in multiple sizes) to get the feel of how the real one discharges and what the spray/stream pattern is. Fairly reasonable in price. I carry it, but have at least a 1911 and a couple of knives to back it up. Hope this helps. Wind

[Sixgun]

Tutt,
Thats good that you quoted Jeff's "color code". At home, I live in the yellow state---everywhere else, I'm orange. I even work out in the yard with a 38 in my back pocket.

The "white" state never enters my mind, even while sleeping. My 14 dogs take over while performing my 8 hours of rest. -------------Sixgun

[tman]

gangs spray pepper spray into one another's eyes to build up a tolerance to it and make it less effective. a .22 stinger to the head will end things quickly. you can't build a tolence to a fist sized hole in the back of your forehead.

[C. Cash]

gangs spray pepper spray into one another's eyes to build up a tolerance to it and make it less effective. a .22 stinger to the head will end things quickly. you can't build a tolence to a fist sized hole in the back of your forehead.

Very true!

[CowboyTutt]

Sixgun, thanks for the kind words. Just trying to pass on the thoughts of Col. Cooper. I'm trying to find a copy of the video that was shown to us, and not having any luck. I see now why Jeff Cooper was the "father" of self-defense schools in our country. It was obvious, even to me, after one video that he was truly a special man. I sure wish I could have known him.

-Tutt

[colo native]

WE keep a can of hornet spray at eah door, an the a shotgun ack up 4 or 5 feet back from that!!!!
The Hornet spray works on dogs vey well, tsted this in the 80's i Colo. on some wild dogs chasing calves, almost puts em down..

[horsesoldier03]

http://www.gtdist.com/SearchResults.asp ... egory=LESS

Here is where I get my supply of pepper spray. I think I need to upgrade to the new 40% strength. I agree, while not always effective, Pepper Spray will serve your purpose. Just make sure she understands that she needs to continue to move up and not be content with the spray.

[Dastook]

Although there is no good substitute for a firearm, if that just can't be an option. I have read good reports about this one from Kimber. They claim it is the strongest consentration of pepper you can buy.

http://www.pepperblaster.com/

[cnjarvis]

Thanks for all of the replies gentlemen. Looks like I have a couple of directions to go.

[Meeteetse]

If you choose to use pepper spray, get the one recommended for use on bears. After teaching NRA Personal Protection courses for 20 years, I found that there will always be some who are not comfortable with a firearm no matter what you tell them about potential threats. Pepper may not be the best, but it is better than being unarmed or unguarded.

I've been teaching the color codes of awareness for many years and some just don't get it and walk around seeing everything in green and can't conceive of anything yellow, red or white, so perhaps you can appeal to their green side and suggest pepper spray rather than a gun. Just a thought.