OT - Politics.. This is to good not to share

[Charles]

A Texan's opinion

T. B. Bechtel, a part-time City Councilman from Midland, TX , was asked
on a local live radio talk show, just what he thought of the allegations of

torture of the Iraqi prisoners. His reply prompted his ejection from the
studio, but to thunderous applause from the
audience.

"If hooking up an Iraqi prisoner's balls to a car's battery cables will
save one Texas GI's life, then I have just three things to say,


"Red is positive"
"Black is negative"
"Make sure his balls are wet

[JReed]

ROTFL

[DDude]

And the statist mantra continues justifying the US warring against a nation that never attacked us. No wonder the world hates us. Hitler would be proud of Bush and Company following in his footsteps.

[jkbrea]

How can you compare Hitler with Bush? Hitler was set on world dominatin. If the US wanted to take over Iraq, it would have been done long ago using Hitler's tactics. Making that comparison is comparing US soldiers and marines to SS soldiers. We're not rounding up civilians and killing them or trying to destroy a race of people. I get sick of people making the comparison of the United States to Hitler. This country does more FOR the world than any other country in history. It's always there to help any country in times of crisis or natural disasters. I am no big Bush fan, but he is not a dictator and we are not like WWII Germany.

[Hobie]

And the statist mantra continues justifying the US warring against a nation that never attacked us. No wonder the world hates us. Hitler would be proud of Bush and Company following in his footsteps.

Twarnt just Bush but Clinton too until his party got voted out of the White House. Now, if you just think it is wrong to be involved overseas, well that's all well and good (but I think you're wrong) but when you just push the hate-Bush button that way you point out that you start with flawed logic.

[tman]

To announce that there must be no criticism or the president or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not not only UNPATRIOTIC and SERVILE, but is MORALLY TREASONABLE to the american public. t roosevelt. soldier, environmentalist, republican president. what happened to this type of politician? born wealthy, but swung the big stick to crush the coporate monoplies. help, teddy, help!!!!!!

[joachim slim]

when people make comparisons like that it just makes me mad. the U.S. is the biggest tit to the world. also Bush doesnt make the decisions alone. id like to know if your voteing for Hitlary or Obama. speak up...lets hear.

[DDude]

How can you compare Hitler with Bush? Hitler was set on world dominatin. If the US wanted to take over Iraq, it would have been done long ago using Hitler's tactics. Making that comparison is comparing US soldiers and marines to SS soldiers. We're not rounding up civilians and killing them or trying to destroy a race of people. I get sick of people making the comparison of the United States to Hitler. This country does more FOR the world than any other country in history. It's always there to help any country in times of crisis or natural disasters. I am no big Bush fan, but he is not a dictator and we are not like WWII Germany.

Hitler wasn't intent on world domination. There were issues that predated Hitler that were a part of the equation that allowed him to gain power and take Germany down the road of war. Bush in his own way attempts to dictate to other nations (Iran for instance) what they can or can not do because it might affect the US. But then again, it all comes down to $$ regardless of the spin.

Don't mistake my dislike of a large, enslaving federal government with hate towards the US. It's not. It's because I do love this country (being a naturalized US citizen speaks volumes of my devotion to this country) I tend to be irked by the stances the federal.gov has that is contrary to the intentions of the Constitution. Also, I'm not comparing the US to Hitler, but Bush and Co. to Hitler. Big difference, unless you believe the US is Bush and Bush is the US.

Unfortunately the "help" offered to other nations tends to come at the expense of my wallet each Friday (which means less help for myself and family and immediate neighbors) or the lives of our troops. But then again my well worn copy of the Constitution makes no mention that it's the federal.gov's responsibility to help anybody, since the only purpose of the federal government is to protect our freedom. Instead our federal government is hell bent on taking away our freedom at every level, everywhere. So Bush and Company are intent on dominating America first. I'm sure they'll go on to try dominating the rest of the world in their own good time.

As for our troops, can't say I support them like everyone else. Don't hate them either. I do feel sorry for them as they're caught in between their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and being sent off to fight for Bush and Company for the sake of money. It was for this reason that I decided at the end of my enlistment to leave the military as I had issues with my leaders willing to sacrifice my life without any real reason based on what the Constitution talks about. Dying for country when it's attacked is one thing. Dying for the sake of some president trying to line the pockets of his buddies is something else.

As for rounding up people, sure, if you say so. I've read and heard enough from my fellow Americans that we should kill every "raghead" alive if it ensures our survival, whether that "raghead" is guilty or not. Attitudes like that aren't that much different than what Germany experienced in it's past. History always repeats itself. Just takes time.

[Bronco]

Howdy,
I have been saying this ever since day one. The only thing that we did wrong in the sandbox was Rumsfield not listening to the people that spent their life studing the art of war(General Shinseki ) . God bless the troops and God bless America.
John

[Old Savage]

You are out of touch Dude. Let's recall all the bombings dating back the 70s to New York, 9/11 and beyond that led to this.

[Bronco]

I am not talking about the politics and actions that led up to the decision of going there. I am only talking about what was done wrong after the decision to go there was made.
John

[DDude]

You are out of touch Dude. Let's recall all the bombings dating back the 70s to New York, 9/11 and beyond that led to this.

Sure, if you say so. Put your nose in your neighbor's business and see if your neighbor thinks highly of you. Chances are he won't and he'll simply resent you. Same thing in the world scene except instead of it being you it's the US putting it's nose into the business of other nations.

You're right. It goes back beyond WWII. Follow the $$. It'll reveal the true agenda of our government. This BS that it's about freedom and the "war on terror" is nothing but BS.

[homefront]

As for our troops, can't say I support them like everyone else.

Soldiers take "orders". If that wasn't so, it would be called "suggestions", and then your statement might make a little sense. We support our fellow Americans in whatever capacity they serve. Now we know who doesn't.

I've read and heard enough from my fellow Americans that we should kill every "raghead" alive if it ensures our survival, whether that "raghead" is guilty or not.

You didn't hear "raghead" from these fellow Americans. You're preachin' to the choir.

Hitler wasn't intent on world domination.

Are you on some kind of prescription?

[Charles]

Oh Lord... what a mess! I just intended to post something that struck me funny. I am not for torture, but it still is funny.

YOu guys need to lighten up a mite. Jeeze..get a life!

[Old Time Hunter]

Charles...it IS funny

Dude, some of what you say has a ring of truth to it, but you still should support the troops...for the very reason you esposed.

Until the Bushes, all Republican presidents came from modest stock except T. Roosevelt, he was also exceptional in the way he lived his life. The Bushes have always scared the begeebers out of me and I am a life long Republican voter (wrote in McCain the last two times). The Bushes are part of that "power" brokerage of industrial interests with ties to the secret "cloak and dagger" frats such as the "Skull and Bones" society. I do believe we had a moral need to go to Afganistan, but Iraq was pure financial motivation for the "power brokers". I think Ron Paul says it the closest, that we as a nation upset off the extremists by sticking our noses in other peoples business for our own materalistic gains.

[rroberts]

Bush in his own way attempts to dictate to other nations (Iran for instance)

Don't mean to stir the pot, but the fact that "Iran for instance" is developing a nuclear program doesn't bother you?

[Caco]

Ya know--these political threads for the most part are benifical for being better informed and giving food for thought as we are in the process of making a crucial decision ( they always say that but it is true moreso than ever and some always say that to, but it is true)
Some just enjoy arguing no matter what the issue-I can kinda relate to that -some just like to see their position aired and don't really pay enough attention to what the other says to get the content Ie don't bother me I got my eyes and ears closed and my mind is made up an yer not smart enough to see it my way. Some keep doing the Alie shuffel to keep from acknowledging a crediatable answere or chalange to their position. What comes to mind is my old basic training drill seargents instructions "reach up with both hands grab your ears and give a good pull so you can see what the hell is going on"
I think that is not bad advise as there is some thing to learn from decent discusion. You don't have to agree, just do alittle thinking.
Hard for me to understand some of the "It's no use" or if "so and so is not in contention the rest are bad so I don't need the challange to find the next best".
As this ellection process goes along information on candidates emerge and some gets discredited, but the image emerges-support comes and goes hopefully helping people to make a decision.
There is a lot of momentum right now to challange the status quo and it's pretty hard not to see the need in some areas, but as you know some versions of change are bad.
Think
Particapate
Maybe think of it as buying a used car-always some thing that aint the way you would have ordered it but not that far off and your gotta get one soooo-make a decision for now till the next one
Dave

[Ysabel Kid]

No need to jump on this from a political angle - everyone commenting before has answered DDude well.

Charles - I really enjoyed the original post!!!

Here's one for you:

The Cork

Two Arab terrorists are in a locker room taking a shower after their bomb making class, when one notices the other has a huge cork stuck in his buttocks.

"If you do not mind me saying," said the second, "that cork looks very uncomfortable. Why do you not take it out?"

"I regret I cannot", lamented the first terrorist. "It is permanently stuck in my butt."

"I do not understand," said the other.

The first terrorist says, "I was walking along the beach and I tripped over an oil lamp. There was a puff of smoke, and then a huge old man in an American flag attire with a white beard and top hat came boiling out. He said, "I am Uncle Sam, the Genie. I can grant you one wish."

I said, "No pelosi?"

[jkbrea]

Dude, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or offend. Your second post was definitely thought out and I do not question your sincerity. I just don't agree with the comparison. You became a citizen and served which says alot for you. But your decision to leave for your beliefs invalidates your comparison. I'm sure several of Hitler's soldiers wanted out, but imagine if they had tried. I understand you mean President Bush and not the soldiers, but it just struck me wrong when I read it.

Also, as Caco said, I for one do benifit from reading different points of few on political topics and I especially like that on this forum, it almost always remains civil.

(Charles..it was funny)

[Caco]

Sorry -
No politics here nope non my mistake
Dave

[Jeeps]

That Joke was AWESOME

As for how the thread degenerated.....

Let's just say that Muslim extremists have been fomenting terror for decades, striking here and there and getting better all the time.

When should we do something?

Personally I think ALLOT more Americans must die on our own land before most people take this seriously and stop whining

I really can't believe that a group of people (muslim extremist) can stand on a soap box and declare war, then kill thousands of the people they just threatened in a terrorist attack, then we get a bunch of wussies wondering what we are doing over there.

FREAKING SHAMEFUL

[Caco]

Genuine apology sorry
The first part was funny
Dave

[Grizz]

..,

[nemhed]

In the end, given enough time and passion, all political arguements end with someone being compared to Hitler.

[DDude]

Don't mean to stir the pot, but the fact that "Iran for instance" is developing a nuclear program doesn't bother you?

No. Pakistan has them currently. Should we do something about it too? And if no, then why not? Why not do something about Russia and China, long time adversaries of the US? Double standards I suppose. Iran is a little nation our leadership can bully around. Talk about lack of balls.

As I said, I don't support or not support the troops. They're caught in the middle. When I enlisted I took an oath to defend the Constitution, even if it meant going against orders by superiors if those orders were unlawful. Just because brass says do it doesn't mean it's a lawful order. Every military man and woman is bound to defend the Constitution above all else.

The further we stray from the Constitution, the worse it's going to get. Everybody on this forum is so hell bent on keeping the 2A in the Bill of Rights but allow the other admendments to be taken away a bit at a time. Like death by a thousand cuts, we're losing our freedom by a thousand legislative cuts. What good is the 2A if we lose the rest? When does anybody on this forum make a big deal that the federal.gov oversteps the limits established in the 9th & 10th Amendments? I haven't seen much evidence that it bothers anyone besides those who are labeled nuts.

I apologize to the OP for sidetracking this post. My passion for the Constitution and American gets the better of me at times.

[Hobie]

To announce that there must be no criticism or the president or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not not only UNPATRIOTIC and SERVILE, but is MORALLY TREASONABLE to the american public. t roosevelt. soldier, environmentalist, republican president. what happened to this type of politician? born wealthy, but swung the big stick to crush the coporate monoplies. help, teddy, help!!!!!!

You can't read. One can criticize the POTUS without it being based solely on hate of the person. The current POTUS has done wrong on a number of things. However, my observation is based on my opinion of the result of his actions, not on my opinion of the man as a person.

Next time, read what I write.

[Hobie]

I'm going to point out a couple of rules of the forum.

#1 - no personal attacks.
#2 - no cussing.

As to the last, I'm a bit tired of editing posts to remove the cussing. So, I'll just delete the post. If you want your post to stay up, cut out the cussing.

As to #1, I'd recommend that everyone read what is written. Accept that the writer/author actually might know what they meant to type. Accept that that is there opinion. If you think that they are wrong, then show them how they are wrong with facts.

[Blackhawk]

Maybe we start a fund raiser to send batteries over seas?

[Griff]

Charles...it IS funny

Dude, some of what you say has a ring of truth to it, but you still should support the troops...for the very reason you esposed.

To Chrles, it is funny; although in fact I feel it is unfortunate and regrettable that some would stoop so low.

Ddude, Ignoring the attacks on our country, I have not seen our military taking Al Jeera reporters and conducting televised beheadings. We're not discussing non-combatants. Your attitude is very reminiscent of the anti-war protestors of the VN War. Wherein all vets were labeled for the isolated acts of a few. It has been 34 years since I returned from my last tour and refuse to standby and allow the malignment our fine troops. We need not devolve into anarchy or the disparaging of our troops.

One last comment. Us enlisted types are expected to defend the Constitution. The POTUS, Supreme Court and the Legislature do the interpreting. At the present time the have said that orders to invade Iraq were lawful. Allowing individual soldiers to follow their own interpretation would be anarchy.

While I dislike the fact that we are in Iraq, I hold Clinton responsible, not Bush. For it was Clinton's inaction when this country's soviergn soil was attacked on SEVERAL ocassions during his two terms directly led to 9/11.

While I dislike the fact that our troops are in Iraq, I am much pleased that we have finally taken this "War on Terror" to the cradle of said terror instead of only relying on defensive tactics. For if you believe that the Muslim Fundamentalists want anything less than the total annilation of Western Civilization, you have failed to pay attention to THEIR rhetoric.

Feel free to disagree, I fully support your right to do so. Please remember, it's not paranoia if "they" are out to get ya!

[Idahoser]

[DDude]

@ Idahoser - I'm an American, not a socialist. Don't have much use for socialism. The smaller the government, the better. I suppose most of this hatred I hear from fellow Americans against those "overthere" simply comes from people who won't be going overthere and feel that sending someone elses kid overthere is fine.

@Griff - attacks on our country because of what reason? Start going back in history and you'll find the answer. Again, putting your nose in someone else's business is liable to cause you to get your chops busted. Sorry if I'm not permitted to state my dislike of the fed.gov sending troops in to ensure that some corporate entities can make a dollar off of the action. Nothing is going to change my stance that wars should only be fought when we're attacked. But then again, I tend to want to know why the attack took place in the first place instead of reacting with a kneejerk reaction as evidenced with 9/11. Again, please list the real reason that 9/11 took place and what instigated it... then maybe I'll view this police action in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere differently. And again, I feel sympathy towards our troops as they're caught in the middle of special interests which have an interest in increasing their bottom line. Take issue if you like, it's still a somewhat free country and the internet hasn't been regulated yet by the fed.gov. As for the Muslim fundamentalist you talk about, again dig a bit deeper into history and see why they feel the way they do. Hatred always has a seed. Find the seed and you'll figure it out. I blame Satan in the Garden myself, but that's just me.

I enjoy the debating with you guys. Too much fun for this bored truck driver. Just think, if my dispatcher hadn't messed up on the delivery time I wouldn't be online to post. Want his number to cuss him out?

[505stevec]

The beautiful thing about this country is that WE CAN have this conversation. Our Bill of Rights Guarentees this. Irac and all of the other Terrosrist training camps cannot. They are still fighting for a "form" of Democracy. I would point out to Dude. ALL of our Troops are volunteers. Not one is drafted to go where they do not wish. I love my country. I hate our politicians but our form of government (Republicanism) at least espouses "All men are greated equal" it has taken us a couple of centuries but where else in the world is this not more true than here? Suggested reading about our Bill of Rights is titled "The Bill of Rights by Akhil Reed Amhar. He is a professor at Yale and has written other great books about our Constitution.

[DDude]

The beautiful thing about this country is that WE CAN have this conversation. Our Bill of Rights Guarentees this. Irac and all of the other Terrosrist training camps cannot. They are still fighting for a "form" of Democracy. I would point out to Dude. ALL of our Troops are volunteers. Not one is drafted to go where they do not wish. I love my country. I hate our politicians but our form of government (Republicanism) at least espouses "All men are greated equal" it has taken us a couple of centuries but where else in the world is this not more true than here? Suggested reading about our Bill of Rights is titled "The Bill of Rights by Akhil Reed Amhar. He is a professor at Yale and has written other great books about our Constitution.

I too was a volunteer in USAF. AFSC was 81150 (Security Specialist). Got to guard a bunch of cool planes (mostly E3A AWACS) and carry an M16 everyday.

But when I joined I was only 18 and naive. Four years later I was a bit more knowledgeable about the world around me and opted to not reenlist.

As for other people in other nations, I've been on the other side. Although Canada isn't as bad as some places, it isn't the US either. That's why I decided to become a US citizen. Fit my ideals better. But then again, unlike every native born US citizen... I took an oath to defend the Constitution against foreign and domestic enemies. As a naturalized citizen sticking to that oath is a daily duty and obligation that native born Americans are not bound to. You may love your country, but you never took an oath of citizenship where you said you'd do the same. So when I took the oath, I meant it. And during the 29 years I've been a US citizen I've come across more domestic enemies of the Constitution than foreign. So I do my part to ensure that the Constitution remains true to it's intent even if it is simply to debate with fellow Americans to raise awareness.

[Idahoser]

[rjohns94]

I liked the joke and shared it with my family. As for the rest of this, topic .... Having served a carreer to protect peoples right to speak their mind, I have to constantly remind myself that despite the fact I disagree with every fibre of my body, it still gets my blood pressure up. I'm leaving on Sunday for Ethiopia. I am glad to be going there and after this thread, I'm glad to be getting a break from these political posts. I am so tired of the uninformed shouting the loudest and getting the most notice. I'll see you all in a few weeks. Take care, shoot straight and watch your back. Thanks for those who offered their prayers. You are in mine. Over Out

[Hobie]

Take care Mike, and safe travels.

[tman]

sorry hobie, no way was it aimed at you or what you wrote. i thought the quote fit the topic in general, that these types of discussions were meaningful, and that we could all learn from what someone has to say, if i offened you, please accept my sincere appology, tman.

[Jeeps]

God bless ya rjohns94, stay safe.

As for the rest of the thread, I've always found in my travels that the hardest
people to reach is the "blame America first" type.

I have people at work who espouse that all that is going on is our fault

It's the little things that are destroying us, "political correctness", "hate Bush",
"Americas fault".

[Hobie]

sorry hobie, no way was it aimed at you or what you wrote. i thought the quote fit the topic in general, that these types of discussions were meaningful, and that we could all learn from what someone has to say, if i offened you, please accept my sincere appology, tman.

I accept your apology.

[RIHMFIRE]

Charles....that was a good one
and Ysabel Kid
Great joke...

ddude
You have lost your f'n mind
You need a history lesson....
My parents entire family live through that bs in Germany.....
and one day when i have a bunch of time to waste
i'll give a little history lesson
Bush is no Hitler.....

but as for the original post
Does anyone have a battery charger!

[Grizz]

Charles....that was a good one
and Ysabel Kid
Great joke...

ddude
You have lost your f'n mind
You need a history lesson....
My parents entire family live through that bs in Germany.....
and one day when i have a bunch of time to waste
i'll give a little history lesson
Bush is no Hitler.....

but as for the original post
Does anyone have a battery charger!

My sentiments EXACTLY..,

[gimdandy]

when I have to read each paragraph 2-3 times to find a portion that may be accurate then I have to evaluate it as on the whole , inaccurate , even though it did have a sentence or a part of a sentence that did have a "ring" of truth to it . However this hijacked project is half a bubble off of plumb.
Charles, thanks and it reminds me of the advantage of wiring d.c. in series for short periods of time

[DDude]

ddude
You have lost your f'n mind
You need a history lesson....
My parents entire family live through that bs in Germany.....
and one day when i have a bunch of time to waste
i'll give a little history lesson
Bush is no Hitler.....

My mind is still between my ears, haven't lost it. As for history...

My mother lived through the war as well after Hitler invaded the Netherlands. By the time she, my grandparents and other relatives were liberated by the Canadians they were barely alive. I know enough about the history of the war in Europe directly from my mother to know enough about what the war was about and why it happened.

My father in the meanwhile endured the Kempeitai in the Dutch East Indies for two years and barely survived that experience. Although my father rarely spoke of the experience to me or my siblings, Mom shared with us some of what he shared with her.

Bush isn't Hitler is correct. But he isn't much different. Thanks for the offer to share what you know of history. I've managed in 43 years to learn a bit on my own and still enjoy learning.

I'll tell you what. Since you and a few others have a dislike towards me and don't value differing opinions I'll take my leave. Adios.

[homefront]

Oh, dear, I think I'm gonna' cry.