oT - high power blanks

[Doc Hudson]

This is a bit off the wall, but how many of you gents have ever made powerful blank cartridges and would you share the recipe?

Over 20 years ago i read an article by Massad Ayoob about sel-defense fo the handicapped/ Among other problems he discussed was that of self-defense for the blind.

Ayoob recommended that a blind friend carry a snubby .33 RemMag loaded with the most powerful blanks he could acquire. In use the idea was to jam the muzzle into the bad guy's gut, or wherever you can reach and pull the trigger. With a hard contact shot, the gases produced by the blank could produce some relly nasty and incapacitating wounds.

The premise sounds odd, but remember that foolish young actor who killed himself on the set of his TV show playing Russian Roulette with 5-in-1 Blanks.

until recently I did not give that article much thought, but as my vision fails I give it more and more thought. Hopefully I will be able to see some at least for many years, and the light may never go out entirely. However the situation bears some consideration and even preparation.

The thing tha has been nibbling at the edges of my mind is a derringer. Chambered either for .44 RemMag, .45 LC, or .45-70, a derringer loaded with powerful blanks should be rather formidable.

The really big problem is that I know nothing about making blanks. Especially how does one make blanks that will stand up to pocket carry for a long period of time.

Any suggestions gents?

[Rusty]

Doc,

You might have to enlist the help of some of the CAS folks around. I know the mounted shooters use .45 Colts loaded with a stout charge of Holy Black to pop the balloons. From what I've read the only "projectile" that breaks the balloons is the partially burnt grains of powder and the residue, which is why shooters can operate in such close areas with spectators nearby.

[w30wcf]

Doc,
I have made some very stout blanks by filling the case 7/8" full with fast burning smokeless (I used 231) and than put a card wad over the case mouth and crimp. Definitely LOUD! You could start with case 1/2 full and go from there.

CAUTION: FOR THOSE READING THIS THREAD, USE NO BULLET/ROUND BALL, ETC IN A BLANK CARTRIDGE.
Have fun!
w30wcf

[Pisgah]

Given the circumstance of a contact shooting, a heavy blank would work -- and work even better with the addition of a bullet.

[Doc Hudson]

Given the circumstance of a contact shooting, a heavy blank would work -- and work even better with the addition of a bullet.

True enough, but just how comfortable would you be around an armed lind man who's pistol cartridges had bullets?

For the vision impaired I believe heavy blnks and contact shooting is the only firearms defense solution.

[Doc Hudson]

Doc,
I have made some very stout blanks by filling the case 7/8" full with fast burning smokeless (I used 231) and than put a card wad over the case mouth and crimp. Definitely LOUD! You could start with case 1/2 full and go from there.

CAUTION: FOR THOSE READING THIS THREAD, USE NO BULLET/ROUND BALL, ETC IN A BLANK CARTRIDGE.
Have fun!
w30wcf

Is a card wad and a heavy crimp enough to seal the cartridge against ratling around in a pocket and possible dampness?

Did you seat the card wad down tight over the powder or leave the powder loose?

Would it be advisable to seal the card wad with a bit of nail polish, glue or varnish?

[Pisgah]

Given the circumstance of a contact shooting, a heavy blank would work -- and work even better with the addition of a bullet.

True enough, but just how comfortable would you be around an armed lind man who's pistol cartridges had bullets?

For the vision impaired I believe heavy blnks and contact shooting is the only firearms defense solution.

Assuming the blind man is a responsible individual who is aware of the risks, I'd be more comfortable around him than I am around many of the sighted folks I know. Blindness is no reason to deprive him of a means of defense.

[Cliff]

My father started losing is eye sight when he was around 92 years old due to his age, plus he had limited mobility, due to a bad knee. He managed to hang in there until he passed away at 98. He was concerned about having a proper self defense pistol. Now he taught my brother and myself to point shoot or instictive shooting, point and shoot stuff. He wanted a Colt's Woodsman pistol in 22 as it felt natural to him. Couldn't find on at the time but did find a four inch Browning nomad which felt good for him. He kept trying to use the sights, had perifial(sp) vision of some degree. I told him to remember what he taught me push the gun out and institctively fire when it felt right. He got so he was good to go at about 20 feet on the range. Was fun taking him shooting, he couldn't see worth a hoot, was pretty much deaf and in a rollaround scooter. We would go forward hang his target, where he wanted it, return to the line he would load and commence firing, scores were only about 60percent on a paper plate but he could do it consistantly. He did say he thought a handgrenade might be handier, but we talked him out of that. It was fun watching the other shooters trying to figure out what he was doing. He always felt it was his duty to protect the house. He was happy after that. As for blanks we tried some by using black powder and crushed walnut hulls mixed together, compressed in a .45 colt case, card wad and heavy crimp. Were effective, but he was getting frail and couldn't handle the new service revolver good enough to suite him. Hang in there.

[w30wcf]

Doc,
In answer to your questions:

1.) I have never carried blanks around loose in my pocket but I would think that the crimp would be enough to seal.
2.) I left the powder loose on the lesser charges but with the case 90+% full the wad was on top of the powder.
3.) Unless the blank would be subect to harsh conditions, I don't think it would be necessary to seal it.

Actually, an upside down gas check in a sized, slightly neck expanded case then crimped might be the best solution.
I have also used that technique as well. The gas check would need to be put through the sizer first unless it is the older Lyman style that is not tapered.

I have also used:
http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Cat_SGC.htm

Also, a number of wad options here:
http://www.circlefly.com/html/products.html

Have fun!
w30wcf

[rjohns94]

I have used gaschecks and sealed them with red polish just to make them stand out visually for me from all other ammo. obviously not needed. The nail polish idea has been used for lots of ammo for that extra bit of water proofing when I felt that was needed.
blessings and best of luck

Also, I personally love the derringer for in your face defense. I love my Bond and actually thinking about getting some different barrel sets for it.

[oic0]

The idea is that a blank won't penetrate and you can't see what is behind or around the person right? What about a commercially available shot shell or a home shot load? Then if a circumstance did arise where you had a little distance on the person but somehow knew nothing was around them or within range of the shot shell, you could take that shot also.

[J Miller]

Doc,

I have made some really vicious black powder blanks for my .45 Colts.

Here is what I did.
>Sized case
>Primed case
>Filled case about 3/4 full with black
>Put a tight fitting styrofoam wad cut from a thick meat tray over the powder and seated it (adjust powder charge so the wad is about 3/16" below the case mouth
>Roll crimp the case
>Cover the top of the wad with Elmer,s Carpenters wood glue making sure to get all the way around the edges
>Let dry
>shoot

These loads were reported to have produced six foot flames at night.
Three witnesses saw this. I didn't see it I was holding the gun pointing up. Even with my ear muffs on they were LOUD!

I also have an older factory blank cartridge that has about 40 grs of black powder in it with card wad over that and a very pronounced roll crimp. It is an old balloon head case from the early 1900s. It has stood the test of time.

Joe

[gimdandy]

If it is self defense a knife or a taser might be considered since your wanting to incapacitate them. Don't know how you are going to test a blank to see if it will do any thing but make a noise.( no cat jokes )

[Doc Hudson]

If it is self defense a knife or a taser might be considered since your wanting to incapacitate them. Don't know how you are going to test a blank to see if it will do any thing but make a noise.( no cat jokes )

Ok, no cat jokes, the neighbor cat has adopted me and I sort of like the old rascal.

But there are animal carcasses. I'd hate to waste it but i suppose I could always sacrifice a beef brisket or a slab of ribs.

I suppose i could also make some gelatine blocks for testing.

Yes i want to incapacitate an attacker but I don't mind if it is lethal and I'd really like the incapacitation to be impressive to any friends the attacker might have nearby.

[Tumbleweeds II]

I wonder if those .22 blanks they sell in hardware stores for nail guns would work? I know for a fact that you can launch a small game bullet with them, as in the Hammond Game Getter.

[J Miller]

I wonder if those .22 blanks they sell in hardware stores for nail guns would work? I know for a fact that you can launch a small game bullet with them, as in the Hammond Game Getter.

Those stud setting .22 blanks are called "Power Heads" and are viciously powerful. They come in several power levels. I fired some out of my 9422 years ago and it made a louder and sharper report than when I fired live high velocity ammo.
I'm not sure a torso shot with one of them would be quickly fatal, but it would have to do a bunch of damage.

Joe

[John in MS]

A co-worker was taking part in a local play, and asked if I could make them some .38 Special blanks. I asked how they would be used, and she said they would be fired off-stage, not pointed at anyone. I cautioned her seriously that one must never point blanks at someone as they can do serious damage on firing, and asked that she have them fired pointing down into a metal trash can. She agreed.

I filled the cases with a few grains of Bullseye and then punched the case mouths through a thick block of Gulf Wax (?) Paraffin, used for canning. This provided constriction and resistance for the powder charge. She reported that they were extremely loud, and the audience (and some cast members) just about jumped out of their skins when the blanks were fired. I guess they were expecting the anemic little cap-gun "pops" that are used in most plays. The cast loved the effect, and in fact had me make some more for them the next time they hosted the play.

Joe's approach with the black powder and seal of glue would work as well, and would almost certainly be more durable than the wax. You could consider putting a wax plug over the powder charge, and then sealing as Joe recommends, for added resistance and improved combustion. If you do opt for this, I would put a card wad (can be made from tablet backing, using a sharpened/chamfered case mouth) over the powder and under the wax, to prevent any chance of powder contamination over time.

Do treat these seriously. My understanding from reading reports is that contact wounds
from regular ammunition may be much more injurious than non-contact wounds, as the gasses
go into the body and do a lot of tissue disruption. Even without a projectile, they are nothing to play with. IIRC, the young actor who shot himself in the head with a blank and killed himself was Geoffrey Duel, who played in John Wayne's movie, "Chisum."

Hope this helps, and I'm sorry to hear of your vision difficulties!
Sincerely,
John