sound of 357 mag vs 44 special

[preventec47]

I was playing around with the recoil calculator and found
that you could pick light bullets in the 357 mag (115gr) that would
lower the the recoil close to that of a 44 special (185 gr) also with
light bullets. What I noticed was the difference in
bore pressures of 42,000cup for 357 mag and only 14,000
cup for the 44 special and I suspect the noise resulting
from two short barrel pistols would probably be much
different.
Has anyone shot these two side by side and can comment
on the sound signature compared to each other ?

I dont think the larger bullet at much less velocity
out of the 44 special would be a lot less effective
at short range.

[Terry Murbach]

HIGHER PRESSURE IS ALWAYS A HELL OF A LOT LOUDER THAN LOWER PRESSURE, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE HIGH PRESSURE CARTRIDGE IS USING TWICE AS MUCH, OR MORE, PROPELLENT.
PS: 42,000 CUP has been obsolete since Moses was a PFC.

[adirondakjack]

What Terry yelled.

Higher velocity means the gasses are moving faster as well. That makes a lotta racket. A classic example of what this is about is the LOUD .30 carbine revolver. On the other end of it, a subsonic, heavy .45 round might be comfy enough to withstand the "pop" without earplugs. (a round or two anyway, ya always should wear plugs).

Yer .357 125 grainer steppin right lively is loud. Find a 240 grain .44 load that is much slower, it will be much less noisy.

[76/444]

Many years ago when I started carrying, I went 357 until a budd introduced me to 44. Now, I can't shoot the last 357 I own in 7.5"Bb without plugs, very painfull!!

I don't shoot 44 spl anymore,... but I prefer full load 44mag's to my 357., as far as noise is concerned. I think my BlackHawk has a smaller bore than normal,... which adds to the problem. It will hit anything I point it at out to 150yds, but my ears would ring for days, when it was an immediate need situation that I couldn't put plugs in for.

[Malamute]

It's my impression that the 357 seems louder than the 44 mag even with full power loads in the 44. It seems the be the pitch of the sound, the smaller bore seems so much sharper.

The 357 is a good round in it's niche (when you want a lighter carry gun/ammo than a 44 or 45 Colt), but I find it distinctly unpleasant to shoot in a pistol. Had a 2 1/2" Smith 19 years ago. When shooting factory 357 125's, the only way to describe the muzzle blast was hideous. I felt like I was being slapped in the face every time I shot it, and even with plugs and muffs it made my ears ring. I sold it. The 4" guns arent pleasant, but much betr than the shorter gun. I still consider it on the verge of hideous compared to the 44 or 45 Colt with any level loads.

[preventec47]

I was sort of focusing on recoil as being the same from a shooting
sensation standpoint. That is why I was comparing the
44 special against the 357 mag. Since the recoil is similiar
the momentum of both are approximately the same in the
example I mentioned.

From the above comments that pretty much means I'll
always be keeping my eyes open for a 44 special deal
moreso than a 357 pistol for self defense or conceal carry.

[Hobie]

The smaller bore seems to increase the velocity of the gas, hence it is "louder". I like the .40-somethings for just that reason.

[Pisgah]

I've never done the scientific measurements to conclusively determine which is louder. For that matter, I guess you could argue over what parameters should be measured to make such a determination.

I will say that although I don't intentionally fire either one without some hearing protection as a general rule, the .357 is a lot more unpleasant, a lot quicker, than the .44 Special. The special is a very loud "Boom" to me, while the .357 is a wicked, piercing crack, like a rip of audio lightning.

[Rexster]

The .357 is MUCH harsher than the .45 ACP, and the .44 Special is milder still.

I managed to forgetfully fire each of these, over time, once, without hearing protection. By coincidence, it was a Winchester Silvertip in each load, IIRC. None were as bad as a now-disremembered .44 mag load. All were from 4" sixguns, except the .45 ACP was from a snubby. Of course, I have also fired all four, in various loads, with hearing protection in place, and they rank the same that way, too.

I like the .357 because it fits into DA sixguns that fit into my size-challenged hands. (Actually, fairly large hands, but short fingers and thumbs.) K and L frames are good, and I can get all of my skinny fingers onto an SP101's factory grip. Darryl Bolke described the SP101, in print, as a hand-held flash-bang, and theorized that one reason for the .357 mag's stopping power against humans is that no bad guy wants that thing to go off in his face a second time. I can agree, though the .357 mag does cause tremendous damage to a human body, too.

The .40 S&W is presently my mandated duty cartridge. I have always worn hearing protection when shooting .40, and find it notably harsher from my 3.9" P229s than a .45 ACP from a 5" barrel, but certainly far milder than a .357 mag from any 2.5" to 4" handgun barrel.

Much as I like my SP101 thunderboomers for their handiness, and the .357 mag for its on-target effectiveness against human adversaries, I must echo what Hobie said about 40-somethings, which is why I like SA sixguns and autoloaders, to be able to shoot handle big bores in a reasonably-sized weapon.

Edited to add: Well, I did fire one 125-grain Federal .357 at a human adversary, and it was just a mild "pop" to my ears; I didn't notice the pressure wave, either

[horsesoldier03]

The .357 is MUCH harsher than the .45 ACP, and the .44 Special is milder still.
Edited to add: Well, I did fire one 125-grain Federal .357 at a human adversary, and it was just a mild "pop" to my ears; I didn't notice the pressure wave, either

Not looking for huge detail (such as gore) but very curious what the results were. Where was the individual hit and how long from time of impact to being incapasitated??? If able, please expand a bit more on the senario.

[Streetstar]

357 Maggie is much harsher in tone. Louder too, im sure

[willygene]

i believe the 357 is louder but i like it better for what i do. rexster where in east texas im from nacogdoches.

[PaulB]

So... if the .357 is harsher due to it's smaller bore, then the .22LR must be really harsh, right?

I think it has to do with the burning rate of the powder, the amount of the powder, the weight of the bullet, and the length of the barrel. And presence of a cylinder gap (revolvers vs pistols).

I'm guessing you could load a .357 with small charges of fast burning powder with a heavy bullet, and go just as quiet as some .44 spl loads.

We think of .357 as harsh because very many factory loadings are heavy loads with slow burning powder and light bullets. Hardly any .44 cartridges are normally loaded the same way.

[Rexster]

The .357 is MUCH harsher than the .45 ACP, and the .44 Special is milder still.
Edited to add: Well, I did fire one 125-grain Federal .357 at a human adversary, and it was just a mild "pop" to my ears; I didn't notice the pressure wave, either

Not looking for huge detail (such as gore) but very curious what the results were. Where was the individual hit and how long from time of impact to being incapasitated??? If able, please expand a bit more on the senario.

Well, to set the stage, he had already cut his own throat, so he was already immunized against further pain, and had fought two officers who had thought he was unconscious when they arrived on the scene. They broke contact, and this disturbed individual resumed sawing on his neck. He did not know anatomy, so he was sawing on his trachea, and had not yet lost much blood. Of course, once the first two officers got on the radio for help, the whole world arrived right quickly.

Well, then he sat there on the grass a while, evidently waiting to bleed out, while we waited for a sergeant to arrive with a Taser. (This was before today's small Tasers, which ride on so many officers' duty belts.) The plan was going to be to immobilize him with the Taser, and try to knock his weapons out of his hands. Well, Senor Montoya, for whatever reason, decided to rise to his feet, with a knife in one hand, and an officer's snatched flashlight in his other. All of the officers except me were in a small group off to one side, to prevent a crossfire sitiation. I was off to their side, making sure my rookie had secured our car, and, IIRC, to get my shotgun.

For a reason known only to God and Mr. Montoya, he started toward me. Not toward the group of officers, and not in the wide, clear space downrange to the east of those officers, nor to the wide-open north. Intentionally or not, I was chosen as the instrument of his destruction. We locked eyes; I saw rage in his eyes. I drew my GP100, and though I don't recall saying anything, I was heard to tell Mr. Montoya to drop the knife, and to back off. He did neither, and I sensed a fellow officer had rushed to stand by my right side, so evasive maneuvers were not an option, lest I leave a fellow officer, possibly my rookie, to deal with the threat. I dispassionately made a hole in Mr. Montoya's sternum, and his expression changed to something I have seen in the faces of scared puppies. He looked like a rag doll hit by a fast train, except he did not fall. He did change direction, and walked along a crescent path for almost 40 feet, each step a challenge, stiff-legged, like a guy doing an impression of a dying Frankenstein's monster, while two holes ran blood like garden hoses. Each step started as a fall, but then he would catch himself.

He fell, twisting to land face-up, and then did not move. We had to knock the weapons from his hands, so the paramedic and firemen, who had been present already, could work on him. They attached the adhesive things for the leads to his chest, but then didn't even bother hooking him up to get a flatline. The hole is his chest did not close and look puckered, like most handgun entrance wounds; it gaped open, and seemed to go to China. There were pieces of bullet jacket in the plume of blood beyond the point of impact, but on autopsy, the main part(s) of the bullet had been found still inside.

I don't buy the "one-shot stop" ideal, but Mr. Montoya ceased to be a danger after that shot. Perhaps this was a psychological stop, or perhaps he would have pressed the attack, but was unable to do so.

I did not seek to attend the autopsy, nor ask for a copy of the autopsy report. A fellow officer who had requested to see autopsy reports after his first two shootings had had it used against him when the PD decided to get rid of him after his third shooting, considering it an indication of being bloodthirsty or something.

It is too late to be sued for this, BTW. I figure if a national magazine can get it wrong, basically saying I made a mistake, I have a right to tell my side now. I have to wait until retirement to attach my full name to this story, but have left enough clues for someone to verify that this event happened, aided by a search engine.

[Hobie]

So... if the .357 is harsher due to it's smaller bore, then the .22LR must be really harsh, right?

I think it has to do with the burning rate of the powder, the amount of the powder, the weight of the bullet, and the length of the barrel. And presence of a cylinder gap (revolvers vs pistols).

I'm guessing you could load a .357 with small charges of fast burning powder with a heavy bullet, and go just as quiet as some .44 spl loads.

We think of .357 as harsh because very many factory loadings are heavy loads with slow burning powder and light bullets. Hardly any .44 cartridges are normally loaded the same way.

Why would you think that? The quantity of gas created and pressure before the bullet leaves the muzzle relative to bore size is what seems to be important.

[Rexster]

i believe the 357 is louder but i like it better for what i do. rexster where in east texas im from nacogdoches.

I am south of you a bit, living in a small city, that is surrounded by a BIG city. Two interstates and a major US highway cross each other here. I work for the big city's PD. If I specifically say which agency I work for, I will henceforth have to be silent on such issues as weapons, law, and politics, while posting under my current user name.

Here's a clue:

[John in MS]

Rexster: Wow! Thank you for your service, and for sharing the above information!

Interestingly enough, I killed my first 2 deer with a S&W 29, 6", using IIRC 22 gr. 2400 and the 240 gr. Hornady JSP/HP (pre-XTP by a couple of decades.) I'd been wondering how bad the
blast would be when/if I shot a deer without hearing protection, but when I shot them, the reports sounded very subdued, as if very far away, and were of no importance at all on those occasions. It's my understanding that this is not uncommon in stress situations.

FWIW, both bullets were through-and-through penetrations, 1 double-lung shot at 15 yards, and 1 through both shoulders at 43 yards. Neither bullet showed any signs of expansion.


Thanks again,
John

[willygene]

thanks rexster say no more i have been in spots in law enforcement here were i cant say and still want say, can say federal court is a different place but it's great when you come out on top.