OT cast bullet weight question
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OT cast bullet weight question
Being new to casting bullets, I am a little confused. I am using a Lee 2 cavity mold for 45/70 405 grain RFP and straight wheel weights. The problem is that the weight of the bullets is all over the place or at least it seems to me. I cast 92 bullets and the weight ranges from 400.0 grains to 408.3 grains, the diameter of all the bullets seems to be the same. The majority of the bullets (64) fall on a range of 404.0-407.9.
Why is there such a difference in weight, all bullets came from the same batch of wheel weights?
Will 8.3 grains difference in weight between heaviest and lightest make that much difference. I will be using them mostly for target shooting off my back porch.
What is the normal tolerance for bullet weight? I know 0 would be great in a perfect world.
Thanks for your help.
Ken
Why is there such a difference in weight, all bullets came from the same batch of wheel weights?
Will 8.3 grains difference in weight between heaviest and lightest make that much difference. I will be using them mostly for target shooting off my back porch.
What is the normal tolerance for bullet weight? I know 0 would be great in a perfect world.
Thanks for your help.
Ken
when your enemy is within range so are you
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Mold temp not stable, or pot temp changing. Make sure lead is clean and well fluxed. A 5grn variance on a 405grn bullet wont make a lot of difference to accuracy.
Weight sort your bullets if you want better tolerances.
Weight sort your bullets if you want better tolerances.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Lots of things could be affecting that.
Wheelweight alloy might not be blended real good so there's pockets of lighter and heavier metal. Flux and stir quite often.
How tight you squeeze the handles will change.
How well the mold fills out will make weight differences.
How you pour will make a difference, bottom pouring out of the pot will give you wide variations especially with bullets over 300 grs. Ladle pouring with a lyman or rcbs ladle will make for tighter weight variances.
Once you get everything down you probably will notice a 1gr variation or less. And rejects will be well under 10%.
Wheelweight alloy might not be blended real good so there's pockets of lighter and heavier metal. Flux and stir quite often.
How tight you squeeze the handles will change.
How well the mold fills out will make weight differences.
How you pour will make a difference, bottom pouring out of the pot will give you wide variations especially with bullets over 300 grs. Ladle pouring with a lyman or rcbs ladle will make for tighter weight variances.
Once you get everything down you probably will notice a 1gr variation or less. And rejects will be well under 10%.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Thanks for the reply.
I am using a bottom pour pot Left over from my muzzel loading days 30 years ago.
Does 8 grain difference in weight make that much difference down range?
I am using a bottom pour pot Left over from my muzzel loading days 30 years ago.
Does 8 grain difference in weight make that much difference down range?
when your enemy is within range so are you
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
You could also have some air pockets in the really light ones. Try different techniques when pouring like holding the mold as an angle so the alloy kind of swirls around in the mold as it fills. Don't be afraid to leave a large spru on top either.
I'm kind of anal about my cast bullets, so I weigh them on a digital scale. With big bullets like the 45-70s any that are over +/- 2 grains get tossed back in the pot. 200 gr. and under bullets I like to keep them +/- one grain. Probably just makes more work for myself, but that's how I do it. Once you get a good technique going there will not be many that get rejected.
I'm kind of anal about my cast bullets, so I weigh them on a digital scale. With big bullets like the 45-70s any that are over +/- 2 grains get tossed back in the pot. 200 gr. and under bullets I like to keep them +/- one grain. Probably just makes more work for myself, but that's how I do it. Once you get a good technique going there will not be many that get rejected.
NRA Life Member
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
If you're shooting paper you may not shoot as tight a groups as you would like. A deer probably won't notice the difference, though. I think for all practical field purposes it will be fine. If you want more accurate loads for hunting, weight sort the bullets so you will have more consistent results, and make a bunch for just hunting and use the rest for plinking. Just depends on what you're looking to do as to whether it will make a big difference down range.Bis wrote:Thanks for the reply.
I am using a bottom pour pot Left over from my muzzel loading days 30 years ago.
Does 8 grain difference in weight make that much difference down range?
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen" - Samuel Adams
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Re: OT cast bullet weight question
You must use a good pace when casting with an aluminum mold like the Lee. They are not large and they expand and contract a lot with heat changes. And the alloy temp must stay close to the same during the casting session also or bullet weights all over the place will result.
As said,just sort them into batches of like weights and go have fun!!
As said,just sort them into batches of like weights and go have fun!!
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Bis 2 or 3 grs won't make all that much difference. 8 grs tho is something altoghether different. As an example if your pushing the envelope with reloads, that 8gr heavy bullet may put your load over the top pressure wise.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
I guess I need to be more consistant with my casting. When I did the 45/70's I was trying to get more 44 mag bullets. So Some times I would cast 1 set of 44's and 1 set of 45/70's the next time I would cast 3 sets of 44's and 1 set of 45/70's. I had the same problem with bullet weight with the 44 mag bullets.
when your enemy is within range so are you
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Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Ah, grasshopper, there is much to learn here. And, only experience can teach some of it but, these advanced casting guys can be a good guide.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Biz if I'm casting more than one mould at a time, I cast the smallest to the largest. Fill the smallest set it down, fill the biggest, cut the sprue and refill the smallest, cut the sprue and refill the biggest, so on and so forth.
The trick is to keep an even motion so the molds stay fairly close to the same heat level.
The trick is to keep an even motion so the molds stay fairly close to the same heat level.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
I see the value of casting one size then the other, but what do you do when you have to add more material to the pot? The temp of the material will be lower for awhile won't it?
when your enemy is within range so are you
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Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Consistancy is EVERYTHING. I tend to only cast with one mould at a time and keep bullets only after perfect ones are coming. Then I flux one last time and don't flux again until I'm done. Don't add metal as the level goes down. Cast until you are have enough or your pot is very very low and the bullets aren't filling out. Then work through the progression again. You have to keep everything consistant.
If you are using straight WW's, even a 1/2lb of tin for a 20lb pot will make a great difference in how well your bullet cast and fill out.
Even at 420grs I rarely have more than a 1gr difference in bullets. I rarely weigh unless out of curiousity. My bullets are very consistant.
Did I mention consistancy?
2x22
If you are using straight WW's, even a 1/2lb of tin for a 20lb pot will make a great difference in how well your bullet cast and fill out.
Even at 420grs I rarely have more than a 1gr difference in bullets. I rarely weigh unless out of curiousity. My bullets are very consistant.
Did I mention consistancy?
2x22
"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." - Thomas Jefferson
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
I do a couple of thing to get consistent bullets.
The first is use a good thermometer. Maintain a constant temp. of your alloy. When you add ingots allow them to come to temp. Flux well. I mix my ingots twice to maintain a constant alloy.
Use a ladle. I get better bullets from a ladle instead of a bottom pour.
Develop a cadence. Start counting when you cast your bullets and strive to do each procedure at the correct cadence. It will become second nature after a while. The cadence is the most important part to consistent bullets. Try dipping at 1. Lining you ladle up at 3. Pour your lead at the same number as well. Your bullets will greatly benefit.
And this last one you might not like but here goes. Sell those Lee molds to someone else and buy RCBS molds. Your consistency will improve drastically. Tom.
The first is use a good thermometer. Maintain a constant temp. of your alloy. When you add ingots allow them to come to temp. Flux well. I mix my ingots twice to maintain a constant alloy.
Use a ladle. I get better bullets from a ladle instead of a bottom pour.
Develop a cadence. Start counting when you cast your bullets and strive to do each procedure at the correct cadence. It will become second nature after a while. The cadence is the most important part to consistent bullets. Try dipping at 1. Lining you ladle up at 3. Pour your lead at the same number as well. Your bullets will greatly benefit.
And this last one you might not like but here goes. Sell those Lee molds to someone else and buy RCBS molds. Your consistency will improve drastically. Tom.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Bis,
An 8 grain spread when the bullets mic the same diameter is caused by air bubbles in the bullets. These are caused by the way the lead is poured in the mould. A bottom pour pot is the most difficult with which to cast high quality bullets. If you have an RCBS or Lyman dipper, that's the easiest way to cast quality bullets. Lacking either, keep the spout open for a good second or two after the mould cavity is full. Yes, this can make a mess! Have your ingot mould under the spout to catch the run-off. This keeps the lead in the cavity molten long enough for the air bubbles to work their way up and out. Ed Wosika turned me on to this trick. He calls it the "standing wave" method. Sometimes you can see a little wave of the metal coming out of the cavity when you're pouring the "extra" in. Using either the dipper or this method you should be able to cast about 90% of your 400 gr. bullets in a +/- 1 gr. spread.
Add the sprues and run-off back to the pot each pour. This way you can go longer before you have to add ingots and wait for the lead to come back up to temp. Don't worry about the constituents separating out. It's called an alloy because they are fully alloyed, all the time. I know this doesn’t make sense, but that's what the metallurgists tell us, and they got all that high dollar schoolin' behind 'em. Just flux when you need to remove dirt and dross.
I'll crawl back under my rock now...
Glenn
An 8 grain spread when the bullets mic the same diameter is caused by air bubbles in the bullets. These are caused by the way the lead is poured in the mould. A bottom pour pot is the most difficult with which to cast high quality bullets. If you have an RCBS or Lyman dipper, that's the easiest way to cast quality bullets. Lacking either, keep the spout open for a good second or two after the mould cavity is full. Yes, this can make a mess! Have your ingot mould under the spout to catch the run-off. This keeps the lead in the cavity molten long enough for the air bubbles to work their way up and out. Ed Wosika turned me on to this trick. He calls it the "standing wave" method. Sometimes you can see a little wave of the metal coming out of the cavity when you're pouring the "extra" in. Using either the dipper or this method you should be able to cast about 90% of your 400 gr. bullets in a +/- 1 gr. spread.
Add the sprues and run-off back to the pot each pour. This way you can go longer before you have to add ingots and wait for the lead to come back up to temp. Don't worry about the constituents separating out. It's called an alloy because they are fully alloyed, all the time. I know this doesn’t make sense, but that's what the metallurgists tell us, and they got all that high dollar schoolin' behind 'em. Just flux when you need to remove dirt and dross.
I'll crawl back under my rock now...
Glenn
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Re: OT cast bullet weight question
YES!HEAD0001 wrote: Sell those Lee molds to someone else and buy RCBS molds. Your consistency will improve drastically.
2x22
"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." - Thomas Jefferson
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Thanks for all the info. I need to go try this again as soon as I get another day off.
Which one of you guys was going to loan me the money to get those RCBS molds
Which one of you guys was going to loan me the money to get those RCBS molds
when your enemy is within range so are you
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
I cast for nearly every rifle I own. What the other guys have been saying is worth paying attention to. It does take practice, but in the end, you'll get it, and the result will be bullets (or "boolets" as they say on the Cast Boolets website) that will shoot every bit as good as the jacketed ones. Some even better! The Cast Boolets website is a good one if you really want to get into casting. Those guys (some of whom probably post on this site as well) have casting experience with everything imaginable. They've used every kind of trick in the book--some even WROTE the books. They've hunted everything from field mice to elephants with cast bullets. They thrive on sharing information on what used to be a lost, but necessary art. Good luck, and don't give up. Casting's worth it, and a lot of fun. As a cautionary note though--SAFETY is the most important part. ALWAYS PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING, AND WHERE EVERYTHING IS ON YOUR BENCH. If you already don't have one, get one of those clear plastic face shields, just in case something spatters, and wear gloves.
Re: OT cast bullet weight question
Thanks jlchucker. When I cast I wear a heavy jacket, gloves and a face mask. I look like the kid on "a Christmas Story". I will have to check out the cast boolets site.
when your enemy is within range so are you