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PaulB wrote:I've always looked for the 158gr LSWCHP's for my revolvers, but never found it on the store shelves where I live. Thought that was kinda strange, since they are so famous.
I agree Paul, I haven't found 158 grn LSWCHP on a store shelf since the early 90s I think. Back then Winchester made them if I recall correctly. I am providing a LINK for RIMROCK BULLETS. They have a 158 grn SWCHP with gas checks and a brinnell hardness of 5. I havent purchased any yet but have been thinking about it. They are a bit pricey IMO when you consider you could get a Jacketed Bullet for less.
Buffalo Bore also produces a .38 158 LSWCHP+P, and the Winchester & Rem still shows on the MidwayUSA website.
FWIW, get a box of the Buffalo Bore, a Lyman 358156HP mold, and some Star-Line brass then roll your own to look & shoot like the Buffalo Bore. So long as your reloads look & shoot like the BB, what's the diff?
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough. מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976 Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
The Buffalo Bore 158-grain LSWCHP is a good-looking load. I like the fact that it features a gas check. Some other versions of this load tended to be "leaders". In fact, Winchester made the bullets of their version "harder" in response to this problem, thus possibly compromising bullet expansion to some extent. The last I heard, Remington still makes its version with "soft" bullets. I don't know where Federal's loads stand in comparison.
I also cast a vote for this load. While I have not had the chance to shoot a "bad guy" with them (Thank God and may this situation continue!) I have accounted for a number of tough varmints with them. Performance was uniformly excellent.
Buffalo Bore also makes a "service load" using a 148-grain wadcutter. People who are not interested in shooting the "Chicago Load" in a snubby (It can be a bit of a "load".) might wish to consider this load, too. The wadcutter bullet can be a real "killer" at close ranges. My late small town cop father-in-law had the duty to kill stray dogs. The loads that worked by far best for this sad task were wadcutter loads.
Ray Newman wrote:I can't remember the 'zact' load, but a devastating round fired into gelatin and 'phone books(??) was a revesred hollow based wad cutter. The recovered bullets expanded to approx. .69 caliber. Impressed me.
I tried that load a few decades ago when I started carrying a snubbie. I used the Speer 148 gr hollow based wadcutter but I never did get a stable load. It tended to tumble a lot. However, that big hollowpoint in a soft lead bullet does facilitate expansion. Which is one reason I ended up using the Nyclads.
What most people call a "right" is the equivalent of a dog walking on a leash. Just because your leash is a little longer than the other dogs' does not mean you don't have a master.
I might be a little late, jumping in but I'll put in a vote for the 158gr LSWCHP+P either from Remington or Buffalo Bore. Remington is soft and will lead. I simply use a good lead cleaner and clean my weapon as soon as possiable after a range session.
Winchesters offering will work out of a 4" barreled revolver, but are lacking out of a snubby. Mossad Ayoob had pictures of Remington 158gr LSWCHP+P bullets to taken from now deceased bank robbers.
In the two seperate incidents, two bullets were shot from a snubnose revolver passed through the robbers black leather jacket, the other shot from a snubby in to the robbers head. All for bullets were hard to tell from one another, all of then looked like they where hit with a sledge hammer. They weren't the perfect picture of expansion, but they still expanded after going through barriers that choaked other HP's.
I've carried them for CCW in my S&W 3" Mod 36-1 or my Ruger 3"bbl SP-101 in .357 Mag that should say plenty right there.
If I had a another security job and I was put on a restriction by the company owner that I couldn't carry .357 Magnums, Remington or BB rounds would be my first choice.
If I had trouble getting Magnum ammo in 125gr or 110gr bullets, the 158gr LWSWC+P would be my third choice over and above 145gr and 158gr .357 Mag loadings.
Yes, it's that good for a old "backwards" .38 Special. Like Rexter I wouldn't lose any sleep at all.
Doc, I shot it this past summer with 158 gr "Lawman" ammunition. FMJ 158 gr IIRC. And I believe it was +P ammo. The little popper was surprisingly easy to handle. It's hideous to look at, but controllable to shoot. I was surprised. The last thing I expected was for as light and ugly of a revolver to as the LCR is to shoot fairly easily. It's almost as ugly as the g-g-gl... tupperware pistol, but is easier for me to wrap my brain around.
This has been my experience with the LCR also. Trigger was better than expected right out of the box.
And as for effectiveness, people keep arguing over caliber, when they should be discussing bullets. A hot wadcutter tears up more flesh than a lead RN. Semi-wadcutters do too.
Its the bullets that do the work. Remeber when Elmer Keith first tested the 30-06 and proclaimed it "marginal" for deer? He was shooting 147 grain FMJ that zipped right through and didn't expland. I guess that's proof the 30-06 is a third rate cartrigde. Hell, Elmer was there!
Same with the 38 Spec. Pick a proper bullet for what you are trying to accomplish. Speer has that short bbl load that was built for snubbies. Nothing says you can't load a solid base wadcutter up to 1000' for yourself. That blunt flat nose on the SWC and long range accuracy is why Keith and the others like them for hunting. This was decades before hollow points hit the scene.
Read the Armed Citizen column in the NRA pubs. Its show you just what the regular guy is using against criminals, and it sure as God make green apples that its NOT $2000 custom 1911's.
I HIGHLY recommend the book "the Snubbie Revolver" by Ed Lovette. He's got some great ideas from actual use in that book.
Well I still have my Dad's detective special and my M10 2" and if you put the bullet in the right spot the 38 will do the trick. Don't fall for all the hype, NO handgun is a 100% man stopper. Yes a 45 may be a little better than a 38, but not all that much. My favorite carry load is the olf Federal 158 HP nyclad as in actual use they have done the job. I carry and prefer a 45 but I sure don't feel un armed if I happen to be packing my 38. I have been to enought autopsies to tell you that any good 38 special load is deadly. Since I prefer a little more penetration i opt for a heavier bullet but \some of the hollowpoints are ok. Bottom line is the 38 is just as good a man stopper as the 9mm.
I carried the Winchester version of the SWCHP .38 load in the 1980's at work in various 4" revolvers. I would happily do so today if allowed by agency policy. My old M10 S&W is still the most accurate handgun I own.
Winchester M94 30-30 (1980)
Winchester M70 Westerner 30-06 (1982)
Winchester M1 Garand (1942)
Too many others to list - hope to add more levers soon.
The most accurate hand gun I've ever owned was the Model 10 issued to me by the Kern County Sheriff's Office (CA) a long, long time ago. And it wasn't new, either. Most of the blueing was worn off. I was just a kid and didn't know any better, but six months later I made the department's pistol team with it. Today I still carry a Chiefs Special. I've had it so long it's like an extension of me. As an Arizona Ranger, we have to qualify monthly. Couple of months ago, after I'd qualified with my Glock 21, I asked if I could try again with the old Model 36. I qualified. So I don't feel under-gunned for CCW. Sure, I've got a Kimber UCII and of course I carry it, too. But I've been around S&W .38's for so long I just feel comfortable with them. And that's a good thing: to feel at home with your handgun. Recently I picked up a Combat Masterpiece 4" barrel. If you've never shot one of these critters, you're missing out.
As for SD ammo? +P, of course. Not as a steady diet in these old guns, but just for carry if and when needed.
the telegraphist wrote:Short range manstopper, nothing wrong with a 38spl 150/158g soft nose LSWC driven at over 800fps. The 9mm that can do that has not been invented yet. Better still a 4 inch 357 with 125g HP. Personal preference I dont like the 9mm. 45acp or 40S&W in an auto fine.
Shore range man stopper is an excellent analogy.
As a police officer, I hit a man at about 15 yards with a Remington 158 gr LSWC (out of a S&W mod 15, 4" bbl) just below the collar bone. He was about to rush me with a butcher knife in each hand. It was like hitting him with a base ball bat. Drove him to the ground before I had to fire again.
Hit a Dobie in mid air about to attack another officer (about 10 yards away). Went in .38 came out the top of his head the size of a nickle.
Learn to shoot (practice with what you will carry with the ammo you will be caring) and a 4" 38 is just fine for defence.
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