What do you think of .45 acp as a Rifle / Carbine round?

[wavetrain75]

.45 acp is probably my favorite round of all time. That's not to say it's the best round of all time, just my favorite. I like the low pressure and resulting moderate recoil for a large round.

.357 and .44 mag adapted nicely into carbines. .45 acp really didn't, if the number of available .45 acp lever actions is any indication. Is it just because .45 was eclipsed by .357/.44, or is it because .45 isn't effective as a carbine round?

And yes, I'm trying to justify looking for a Marlin camp carbine. Even if I can't really afford one.

[Dave]

The rim of the 45 ACP round probably wouldn't be ideal for a lever gun. I have read the 45 ACP is such an efficient round out of a pistol it actually loses velocity out of a carbine since the powder burns long before the bullet exits the barrel unlike other pistol rounds. Beretta makes their little carbine in 45. I always wanted one of those in 9mm but they are getting pricey.

[Lobo]

Dave,

I remember an article in "Guns & Ammo" (I think) several years ago about a Marlin that had been converted to 45 ACP. Lots of action work to make the short cartridge work through, but a huge magazine capacity!! It shot very well as I recall. Maybe someone has a copy of the article.

[kaschi]

There was an American Rifleman article in the 70's/80's that discussed a Marlin conversion in depth and it was successful but costly(even at that time it was something like $450) so it probably would be super expensive now. My cousin had a Winchester 92 carbine that came out of Mexico or South America where it was used by a police agency there. It was converted to 45 ACP and functioned well. Once in a while though the lifter would "summersault" a round tumbling it end for end, thus not allowing it to be chambered. There were a lot of these 92's around back then in the 70's so some importer must have brought in a bunch. They sold for about $125-150.

[Kansas Ed]

Of course there is still the Thompson 1927 isn't there? And the Tulsa show is going to be calling me to buy one of those...unless someone talks me out of it.

Ed

[Terry Murbach]

THE PATRON SAINT OF YOUR DESIRES IS COL. JOHN TALLIAFERRO THOMPSON. HE CAN FIX YOU UP IN FINE STYLE WITH A 45ACP CARBINE.

[bcp]

Here's a Marlin:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... #msg317840


I've seen several Mausers converted to 45 ACP. I think the 1891 might be best. The extractor readily slips over a chambered round, since it is push feed. You might be able to make a magazine holder in the deep factory mag housing.

Until recently some outfit was making kits for converting 98 and SMLE's. They had a barrel with a nut so you could adjust headspace without a reamer. Also a magazine adapter.

Springfield Armory made an experimental 45 ACP carbine on the 1903 action, too. This is my favorite.

Bruce

[mescalero1]

I have a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP.
It is not for sale.
It does yeoman duty as a house gun.
I would recommend it above a shotgun ANY day.

[nemhed]

Here's the link for the outfit offering the 45acp kits for the Enfields: http://www.specialinterestarms.com/index.php

I don't think they offer the Mauser kits any more.

[AJMD429]

I like my Marlin Camp Carbine, and it has proven utterly reliable (even when I reassembled it improperly it actually worked pretty well... ). You DO have to replace the original fragile plastic buffer with a new one most of the time, but they ARE available from third-parties. If you get the gun and can't find a buffer, PM me and I'll try to find where I got mine; it was not very expensive if I recall correctly - ten bucks maybe. The Camp Carbine seems as accurate at 50 yards as any of my 'pistol caliber' carbines of the lever nature - more accurate than ME, anyway.

[mescalero1]

Rifle platform,
no more recoil than .22
ammo available,
short, light, easily manuverable,
you can not beat it.

[oldguy]

+1 what mescalero1 says.
i just wish they did not throw the brass so far.

[mescalero1]

Yeah,
That is PIA.

[awp101]

Springfield Armory made an experimental 45 ACP carbine on the 1903 action, too. This is my favorite.

Bruce

I want THAT!

Rhineland Arms made conversions for Enfields and Mausers and then stopped. They have been bought by another company but the new company claims they are "coming soon"

[adirondakjack]

I went a slightly different route. Rather than adapt my .45 Colt revolvers and marlins to .45 ACP, I adapted .45 ACP to .45 Colt revolvers. The result is the Cowboy .45 Special. The round is very simply a properly drawn .45 Colt case made without the unwanted middle, so it ends up exactly .45 ACP length and case capacity (and shares ACP data and dies). I've sold near half a million of em.

AND

with the introduction of my Cowboy Carrier, toggle links ('60 Henry, .66 and '73 winchester clones) can run it flawlessly. Marlins can be converted EITHER by short stroking the gun with a custom carrier OR, more recently using a set of mods pioneered by a fellow who calls himself Widowmaker Hill. His Marlins "WiddermAJik" will run .45 Colt OR Cowboy .45 Special, mix or match.
I've been running the round in Marlins for a few years. Mostly CAS level "plinkers", but I have run common ACP recipes like 230s with 5 grains Bullseye and even HOT, .45 Super +P level loads using XTPs and Power Pistol at 1400 fps (just because I can in a Marlin).


six sample rounds with various bullets.

The 16" Marlin holds 10+1, and the 24" rifle holds 17+1. carry the 24" rifle and a belt gun loaded with 6, ya got about half a box of ammo before needing a reload. I call that one my "Hillbilly Assault rifle".

pic taken after a 777 load test

Not to leave out the single shots, I'm in the midst of a $2K project to make a Remington rolling block #5 into a C45S single shot carbine. Junk box action, Douglass barrel, manson reamer, Higginbotham action work and barrel mounting, Treebone lumber, Lyman 17 and Marbles tang peep sights. I need to finish the woodwork, but it's coming together. I expect to run the .455 Webley RCBS 265 gr HB bullet, sized to .452 and loaded in C45S brass through that one.


cowboy45special.com.

[Leverdude]

Biggest problems in a Marlin would be that they headspace on the rim where the 45 headspaces on the end of the case & Marlins cartridge stop mechanics work on the difference between rim dia. & body dia. Might be more feasible in a Winchester feeding wise.

[nemhed]

I love the idea of pistol caliber carbines. I think the idea really shines with cartridges like the .357 and 44 mags. That could explain why I own one of each. I don't think the 45acp wouold gain that much in a carbine barrel, but if you like the round and reload for it; it's all good! A friend has a Camp 9 and loves the thing. Camp 45s seem do be hard to find and are priced accordingly.

[stretch]

A fella at the range bought one of those carbine kits for a 45 auto.
(Sorry, the geriatric colander that serves as my short-term memory
has failed again.....I don't remember details. ) It shot pretty
well with a Rock Island Armory frame. The "stock" was a steel loop,
and one heard a "gong" with every shot. Apparently thestock was made
to resonate just right for 45 shooting! (Deliberately or not, we
dont' know....) I could see where that might get annoyin', but it
shot just fine.

-Stretch

[madman4570]

I like it!

Hey, what would be the"penetration difference" between a 230gr .45acp FMJ at like 1100fps and a .44 Mag 240gr JSP at like 1500fps??????????

[awp101]

stretch, was it a Mech-Tech?

mm4570 unless it's wearing armor, I don't think it would matter...

[Buck Elliott]

""What do you think of .45 acp as a Rifle / Carbine round?""

I don't think of it in that regard at all, unless someone brings it up, then I try not to think about it too much, so I can forget it again...

[stretch]

Dunno, awp101 - the biological hard drive here didn't
react to the name ya threw out.

Sorry...........

-Stretch

[jnyork]

I reckon if it was any good there'd be some.

[J35]

Here is one way


http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/vi ... orum_id=18

[rjohns94]

UZI also has a .45acp carbine that shoots extremely well.

[Doc Hudson]

i'm almost as bad about them as Buck. i don't have a lot of regard for them myself.

They are not much use for anything except anti-personnel/defensive use.

However an old co-worker told me he once killed a deer with his Colt Commander using 230 gr/ FMJ. it wasn't legal or sporting, but he did it to see if he could. .45 ACP just ain't a hunting round.

I've seen one Winchester M-1892 converted to .45 ACP with a Mexican State Prison System markings. The gun was in Thad Scott's Fine Guns and the gunsmith there told me that they'd tested it and it was very unreliable in feeding.

The same gunsmith later built himself a bolt-action .45 ACP (IIRC on a Spanish M-1916 Mauser action) with a 10" or 12" barrel. I saw it just before he sent it to be fitted with a suppressor, which he said would be about as long as the barrel.

If you want' a .45 ACP carbine, don't let my dissuade you. It ought to make as good a house gun as any long gun can make and would be a better choice than a 12 gauge or rifle caliber long gun.

I must admit that I do have a nagging desire for a Ingram MAC 11 in .45 ACP, but cost and BATFE hassle help keep tha desire firmly in check.

[horsesoldier03]

I love my 1911 in .45acp, however, I seriously doubt it would be that great of weapon in a carbine. We did use the M3 Grease Gun in Desert Storm back in 1990. THEY ARE AWESOME!!!

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg32-e.htm

[3leggedturtle]

I luv it Have a 18" T/C contender carbine in 45 auto. Factory loads pick up about 100fps, My load is a Lee 255 gr RFN boolit with 9.4grs of HS7, it chronos at 1050 FPS, it feels like big a 22. Think it would punch thru a small sapling at after breaking both shoulders of any size deer.

[awp101]

I must admit that I do have a nagging desire for a Ingram MAC 11 in .45 ACP, but cost and BATFE hassle help keep tha desire firmly in check.

I got to fire one a couple of years ago. Major super fun! The guy put it and a .50cal ammo can full of .45 on the table and said "Shoot as much as you want but I'm not loading the mags for you!" I can't imagine how much it would cost to feed one now...

Why would a .45ACP carbine make a better HD weapon that a 12ga? I'm not arguing, just curious.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think a Marlin 94 chambered for 45 ACP would be an outstanding seller. Could probably hold 15 rounds.

The perfect companion carbine to the 1911 or any 45ACP revolver.

[mescalero1]

No recoil,
little muzzle flash,
easier to shoot accurately,
managable by smaller stature homo sapiens,
I will let you shoot a house clearing excersise with mine, you will be sold.

[76/444]

.45 acp is probably my favorite round of all time. That's not to say it's the best round of all time, just my favorite. I like the low pressure and resulting moderate recoil for a large round.

.357 and .44 mag adapted nicely into carbines. .45 acp really didn't, if the number of available .45 acp lever actions is any indication. Is it just because .45 was eclipsed by .357/.44, or is it because .45 isn't effective as a carbine round?

And yes, I'm trying to justify looking for a Marlin camp carbine. Even if I can't really afford one.

Since you like the caliber, I don't see any reason not to get a accompanying carbine in the same.

But 45acp is a semi-auto designed case, so, I would get a semi-auto carbine just to keep things less complicated.

I think a loaded down 44mag and especially the 45LC would fit the same type of shooting, and its rimmed case is more conducive to a lever action. The 45LC can also be loaded up to hunt anything you wish, which, the 45acp can not.

So,... I would consider either getting a semi carbine 45acp for your matching semi-auto side arm,... or, scrapping that idea and go 45LC if a lever gun is more to your liking.

[Noah Zark]

UZI also has a .45acp carbine that shoots extremely well.

Also being a huge fan of the 45 ACP round, that's the route I took:



It's an IMI receiver originally built as a 9mm to which I fitted a 45 ACP barrel and bolt, and a Chris Humphries-modified pistol grip that accepts 30 rd USGI M3 ("Grease Gun") magazines. Outside of the M3 mags being a pain in the rump (and fingers) to load without a mag loader (didn't take long to buy one), this rig is smokin' hot for shooting out to 200 yds. I have no trouble chasing 2 ltr soda bottles and gallon milk jugs around the 100 and 200 yd berms with it, much to the surprise of fellow shooters at the range ("How can that be that accurate? It's only got a short barrel!").

Tons of shooting fun.

Noah

[86er]

I had an Olympic Arms 45 Carbine with 16.5" bbl (AR type black rifle). I shot a lot of stuff with it out to 50 yards and was never wanting for more power, accuracy or rifle. The rounds works well in a carbine for general plinking, self defense and vermin.

[FWiedner]

I used to have one of the Thompson/Kahr Arms Model M1's, is was fun to shoot, but had no utility at all. It had an 18" barrel and weighed 12lbs. To fire it from the off-hand, it was necessary, of course, to reach past the action and magazine to put a hand on the forearm. This distance was such that my left arm had to be fully extended, and was of no use as a stable support fot shooting. If I could get one of the 10" barrels without having to ask permission from mommy, I'd consider getting another one, but I'd have to practice a lot more more hip-shooting.

I sold the Thompson and bought a Marlin Camp 45. It's lighter, and seems like it would be much more handy for any purpose I might have. It uses 1911 type magazines, and I've purchased several 15rnd extended mags because I tend to squeeze the trigger.

I also have a couple of 1911 type pistols.

Seems to me that a carbine length barrel doesn't do much for the .45ACP except make it easier to get on a target. There's not a quantum increase in velocity so the "nature" of the .45ACP doesn't change like say, a .357 does when used in a carbine rather than a pistol.

What you have is a long barrelled .45ACP. A longer barrel makes it easier to point, and when it starts making those big old holes, you don't spend much time wondering where your rounds are going or whether you're on target or not.

[JOHNNY WACKO]

HERE IS MY ATTEMPT AT ONE...

[adirondakjack]

See my post above. The marlin in Cowboy .45 Special (which IS a .45 ACP but with a Colt rim) holds 17+1, and drives a 230 XTP at 1400+ fps., or a 250 at 1275fps. Lemme see, a 230 at 1400 or a 250 at 1275 fps would be fine out of a .45 Colt revolver, but somehow is anemic out of a easier to hold, more accurate to shoot rifle?

Funny how the mind works.

Though I developed the C45S (and had a hand in developing the rifles, including a carrier for the toggle links) for CAS, they work fine for ALL LEGAL PURPOSES.

Yhat said, No, a common "ball" load will not gain near as much out of a rifle as will say .45 Colt or .357 mag. This is simply because the .45 ACP and it's sisters are much MORE efficient to start with, and there is little wasted energy to reclaim with a longer pipe.

[Paladin]

I think that other than for a fun gun and great short range defensive gun the .45 in a carbine would easily be out classed by almost any other round a carbine is chambered for. I have carried and used Thompson’s, M3A1 Grease guns, MP5s and a copy of a Swedish K all in 45 ACP at work. For soft skinned bipedal animals it ranks top in its class. My favorite was the MP-5 due to closed bolt accuracy, but they were experimental and recalled. the photo is the only one I still have.