POLITICS - RANT!!! Cops and Fireman

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:24 pm

One thing that always erks me. Why are LEO's and Firemen able to take part in comercials that are political? Are they not civil servants? Do they not work for the people that The People put in charge? If anyone in the armed forces did a comercial endorsing a bill or a politician we would end up in the brig so fast our heads would still be spining. If you are a civil servant you have no business being involved in the political process IMNSHO! I feel I show alot of restraint when discussing politics but that is because I am not alowed to do or say alot of what I think. If I could say half of what I think a lot of people would be suprised at how I view our government and the people in it.

Oh well just had to get that off my chest thanks.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:29 pm

You can say anything you want about politics and support any candidate in any manner as long as you do not do it in public in uniform or represent your opinion or support as coming from the Armed Forces. You did not check your constitutional rights at the Main Gate. Check with your Judge Advocate's office if someone is telling you different.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:37 pm

jnyork
I was talking about public expresion of opinion i.e. being in a comercial and campaigning for an individual or piece of legislation. Guess I should have made that more clear.

These days it doesn't matter if you are in uniform or not you dont even have to say you are in the Military the news does their home work and then says who you are in the intro and you will get busted just the same seen it happen.

gon2shoot · Post by **gon2shoot** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:25 pm

JReed...........was gonna say somthing here, but decided against it.
Fact is the Uniform carries a lot of weight whether military or LEO.
You Sir, are a role model for the government.

(decided not to go with the pro-gunner poster child comment)

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:26 pm

+1 Jeremy

I've seen plenty of LEO's and Fireman in uniform speaking up for a candidate. If anyone in the military did so while in uniform, they are in deep do-do. Doesn't seem right or fair.

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:32 pm

Here in "Paradise" both these professions are unionized, and these unions will endorse candidates of their choosing regardless of what paying union members feel which gives the wrong impression that individuals of these groups support the endorsed candidates.

crawdaddyjim · Post by **crawdaddyjim** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:33 pm

Aint right nor fair. But we are to blame for letting it get this far out of hand. Use to be LEO's and FF's would not get caught up much in this as it was darned if you do and darned of you didn't. But with the protections of Unions well the field of play has changed some.

Maybe the .mil guys need to unionize?:D

budliteguy · Post by **budliteguy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:01 am

Lot of the times you see L.E. or F.F standing behind a candidate, they may not want to be there, but are ordered to stand there. They may not even support that candidate at all. Everyone bad mouths the people who serve and protect until its time THEY need them, Then who do they expect to help. The L.E.officer that they didn't have any use for a second ago.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:38 am

budliteguy
I am not deriding LEO's or Firefighters I have freinds in both proffesions and they get my respect. It just bugs me to see some on TV doing stuff well beyond their paygrade like I mentioned above. I mean no insult or disrespect.

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:00 am

Its called UCMJ.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:52 am

jnyork wrote:You can say anything you want about politics and support any candidate in any manner as long as you do not do it in public in uniform or represent your opinion or support as coming from the Armed Forces. You did not check your constitutional rights at the Main Gate. Check with your Judge Advocate's office if someone is telling you different.

You may want to go back and rethink your statement. You would be surprised how many rights you loose once you enter a federal military reservation. Upon entry you automatically give an implied conscent to search if a MP or SP so chooses to search your vehicle during a routine traffic stop or a random gate inspection (read the sign posted at the gate entrance). I frequently get harrassed during gate inspections, even though it is perfectly legal, because I keep a can of pepper spray in the pocket of my door on my truck. It honestly depends on the guard at the gate. CCW permits are not reckognized period! If you own a firearm on base, it will be registered and will be stored in your units arms room or you may be fortunate to get to keep the weapon in your quarters. I have seen instances where permission was denied completely. If an MP is ever dispatched to your quarters for any call (not only domestics), they are advised of the # and type of firearms registered in your name. I am sure there are other liberties and rights that are infringed when living on a military reservation. IMO, A military community strongly resembles communism where everything is based on the good of the community.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:55 am

I think maybe it depends on department policy. The department I work for says no campaigning on the job. But the Union's are VERY active in politics.
For instance, The International association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) supported Chris Dodd for Prez

. Neither I or my brothers share thier views (a moot point now) although I recall seeing "Firefighters for Dodd" T-shirts and signs on TV early on in the campaign.

Since the unions almost always support a democrat I don't see myself ever following along with their endorsement since second amendment friendly candidates have my vote.
I have noticed that every time the politico's are pushing Gun bills or Homeland security legislation they always drag a bunch of uniforms on stage.

FALPhil · Post by **FALPhil** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:40 am

GANJIRO wrote:Here in "Paradise" both these professions are unionized, and these unions will endorse candidates of their choosing regardless of what paying union members feel which gives the wrong impression that individuals of these groups support the endorsed candidates.

That's why unions should be taxed like corporations.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:48 am

Same goes for teachers too! There should be some restriction on allowing civil servants to advocate where they have conflicts of interest. Drives me nuts when I hear a teacher say "well I pay taxes too!", nooo, besides your "free" cradle to grave benefits, and your 150% above median fiscal compensation, we the "taxpayers" from the private sector are indirectly paying YOUR taxes too!

chuckles · Post by **chuckles** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:42 am

Ganjiro wrote:

Here in "Paradise" both these professions are unionized, and these unions will endorse candidates of their choosing regardless of what paying union members feel which gives the wrong impression that individuals of these groups support the endorsed candidates.

You hit it dead on Ganjiro. Pretty much everywhere, not just paradise. California's most powerful political machine is the Ca State Employee's Union. Corrections officers has the clout also. Goes for a lot of other states too.

chuckles · Post by **chuckles** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:43 am

Ganjiro wrote:

Here in "Paradise" both these professions are unionized, and these unions will endorse candidates of their choosing regardless of what paying union members feel which gives the wrong impression that individuals of these groups support the endorsed candidates.

You hit it dead on Ganjiro. Pretty much everywhere, not just paradise. California's most powerful political machine is the Ca State Employee's Union. Corrections officers has the clout also. Goes for a lot of other states too.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:48 am

JReed wrote:One thing that always erks me. Why are LEO's and Firemen able to take part in comercials that are political? Are they not civil servants? Do they not work for the people that The People put in charge? If anyone in the armed forces did a comercial endorsing a bill or a politician we would end up in the brig so fast our heads would still be spining. If you are a civil servant you have no business being involved in the political process IMNSHO! I feel I show alot of restraint when discussing politics but that is because I am not alowed to do or say alot of what I think. If I could say half of what I think a lot of people would be suprised at how I view our government and the people in it.

Oh well just had to get that off my chest thanks.

When I wore the uniform I NEVER said anything about politics and only spoke to policy among friends. That LEOs and such do as you describe irks me too but lets not forget they are civilians just like most everyone else (although some of them would like to think otherwise). There is a different standard and for a reason.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Hobie wrote:lets not forget they are civilians just like most everyone else.

Don't tell them that. IME they are the ones who forget most often.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:17 pm

I wear a big-city police badge, and would face harsh discipline for publicly expressing a political opinion while being identifiable as a member of my agency. Certain high-up guys in the unions can get away with it, and make political endorsements, but that is due to being union officials. In fact, the way I undersand it, I could face some heat for discussing weapon issues on this forum, if I was identifiable as a member of my agency, which is why I must remain anonymous here; "googling" my name will quickly show my parents picked a unique name for me. Oh, to be named "Mike Smith" would be, so, liberating!

budliteguy · Post by **budliteguy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:37 pm

JReed
I'm not pointing any fingers at you or anyone else on this post, it 's the same with you. This fine Government of our's, loves to make the public think that every service man backs what they are doing. It just burns me up that they expect so much from the people that either protects this country or its civilian's from the dishonest people of the world. Do we get anything in return, most of the time NO. The only satsifaction I get is making sure I go home at the end of the day. Keep safe and watch your back.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:49 pm

JReed...

One word: Unions.

-Blech.

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:51 pm

I'm a civil servant and my union dues go to support candidates that I loath. That makes me SO happy.

PPpastordon · Post by **PPpastordon** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:25 pm

I find the opinions expressed here to be interesting. I also find "group endorsements" leave a lousy feel within my psyche - and other parts. It makes no difference what the group. Such endorsements are intended to make it sound like everybody votes the way the "big brass" tells them. It is an insult to every individual member of the group. I also see it as an insult to those who make the endorsements. They either act like they believe all of their group will follow their lead, or show by their actions that they are dumb enough to actually believe they (the group) will follow them.
The saddest part of those endorsements is that there are some (far too many) who do believe the whole group will do as the brass says. Many years ago I thought that was funny. Now I find it scary!
Grace and Peace,

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:52 am

JReed,
I don't know which endorsements you are talking about but I know most, if not all California police agencies have a strict policy against it. A So Cal police chief is may be getting fired over this issue. Some campaign ads will use a similar uniform with no department patches or department badge. It is the police/fire Association or Union endorsing the candidate, not the actual agency.
The only exception I've seen is an Indian Reservation Fire Dept. for the upcoming casino gaming laws, but they're a private organization.

JNG · Post by **JNG** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Endosments and banners here are not allowed on City property. As a private citizen one can say what they wish. The union reps, not in uniform may support a canidate out of uniform. The guys just vote for who they wish. That how it is in my city.

POLITICS - RANT!!! Cops and Fireman

POLITICS - RANT!!! Cops and Fireman

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Re: RANT!!! Cops and Fireman