Ot - Nearly Sucked into buying EBR

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:19 am

We've talked about this before but I was over at Dominion Outdoors and saw that they had a few EBRs, specifically AR-15 variants/copies. Looked at them all including an Eagle Arms AR-10. Some money in the pocket and here comes the S&W MP-15, flat-top, folding sights, collapsable (albeit plastic) stock, 1-9 twist. And S&W has a promotion where you get one you can get a Sigma for $99 (about what they SHOULD cost!

) $1099 for the rifle + $99 for the pistola + $59.90 tax for $1257.90 and the $2 NICS check.

They also had a Busmaster with the standard carry handle 16" standard butt stock for $800.

Do I REALLY need an EBR?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:42 am

[the $2 NICS check.]

"Fluff" charges really tick me off !

Just an extra profit margin, since the NICS is zero-cost.

canonsix · Post by **canonsix** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:02 pm

Yes,after all the leveractio rifle was the assault rifle of its time,why not have a EBR now

Doug

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:05 pm

I would have bought one had I been in your shoes. I'm trying to get my hands on another EBR before the election. Just in case...

I'm convinced another "scary guns" ban will be coming if the demoncraps win.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:09 pm

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:13 pm

Heck Hobie, if you like it buy it! I have never had one, never really figured out a use for one excepting playing and plinking and I can do that a lot cheaper with my levers and handguns, but to each their own!

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:23 pm

What the heck,Buy it if you want it Hobie. I think as the election gets closer prices on EBR's are going to rise. Actually I'm counting on it. I've got a whole herd of FAL's and AK's just waiting for panic buying to start,I'm hoping to make enough off them to buy a nice old Winny '92 and mo' ammo.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:27 pm

Yep, get it while you can.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:40 pm

Hobie,
Get one if you want. IMHO nobody needs a EBR if they already have a handgun for self protection, a shotgun for hunting and self protection, and a 22lr for smallgame. I have found that the things I've kept the longest were the things that I wanted for the longest time. Most of the guns (and other things)I bought on the spur of the moment didn't stick around for long. I finally had an excuse to buy an AR a couple of years ago when I was asked to join an SRT team by our Sheriff. But now I would never get rid of it (unless it was pried from my cold dead fingers

). I highly recommend the Bushmasters, and think the S&Ws overpriced, again IMHO. ARs are extremely versatile, and easily customized to meet your needs(wants). Just get a flat top (with or without carry handle) to give yourself more options and uses. And finally the prices on these probably aren't going to get any cheaper

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:43 pm

BUY, BUY, BUY!!!

As far as the NICS check is concerned, some states act as their own point of contact for that state. If they chose to do that, they have the right to charge for the check. If you use the FBI center to do the check, they do not charge. That is from the FBI NICS manual that I have in front of me.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:44 pm

My CAR goes with me every time I leave town, those of us who ride the border find them to be useful

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:45 pm

Doesn't have anything to do w/ need. If you want it get it. They're just going to get more expensive.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:59 pm

canonsix wrote:Yes,after all the leveractio rifle was the assault rifle of its time,why not have a EBR now Doug

Wasn't there a thread a couple of days back about how the military had never adopted a lever action gun as a service rifle?

I'd use that as an argument that there has never been a lever-action "assault rifle".

Lever-actions are thus not "evil".

mescalero1 wrote:... those of us who ride the border find them to be useful

I live in Dallas but travel between Presidio and McAllen a few times a month, and I still stuff a levergun of one model or another into the back seat.

I've got a couple of EBR's but people don't seem to stare or freak-out when they see a Model '94.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:19 pm

Yes I would buy an EBR. But for the money an EBR such as an AR can built for much less. I'm with others about getting one before the '08 election. Had my sites set on a Springfield Scout but funds won't be ready before the election so I'm building an AR from Rock River Arms.

Side note: Most people think bad times situations are far from happening to them. I usually them stories about what happened with hurricane Katrina and the gun grab that went on down there.

Johnny

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:23 pm

I have a Bushmaster Predator with a Leupold scope on it. It is my "get'em" Coyote rifle. With Coyotes they sometimes come in bunches.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:43 pm

Favorite combo;

SOCOM16 & 94S/ 45Colt

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:05 pm

I have an SKS in the back of the safe.......That reminds me, I need a couple cases of ammo and several dozen strip clips....

Retro · Post by **Retro** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:11 pm

nemhed wrote:IMHO nobody needs a EBR

Not to P on your battery or anything but what the heck has "need" got to do with it? :twisted:

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:13 pm

Retro wrote:
nemhed wrote:IMHO nobody needs a EBR
Not to P on your battery or anything but what the heck has "need" got to do with it?

He ain't against them, he just don't want one...

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:26 pm

Threads like this a sure hard on my wallet!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:30 pm

I'd go for the Bushy. they're tried and true. My son has one that runs like a Singer sewing machine. Not had the first bobble since he bought it.

Rusty <><

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:38 pm

What is 'EBR' ?

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:43 pm

Evil Black Rifle.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:48 pm

cutter wrote:What is 'EBR' ?

A type of firearm which makes liberal Democrats (and some Republicans) wet themselves in horror and then make shrill bleating screeches about "sensible legislation". Some so-called outdoor writers share this view.

OD* · Post by OD* » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:58 pm

I'd go with the Smith, Hobie.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:01 pm

Enhanced Battle Rifle
Extra Bad Rifle
Extremly Bad** Rifle
Extrasensory Buttkicking Rifle
Extraterrestrial Battle Royal........firearm.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:15 pm

I knew I would take a hit for saying no one "needs" an EBR, but you guys "need" to pay attention, I own a flat top Bushmaster that I love. I would highly recommend everyone that can afford one to buy one. If the bad times in my neighbor, I hope everyone would be scared $#!+less of the guy on the hill with the "EVIL BLACK RIFLE"

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:19 pm

Go for it Hobie, one way or the other. If you think you might want one someday this is the time to get one.
The only AR's I have personal experience with is Bushmaster, I can tell you that list above that was compiled by rob_s is lacking as far as the Bushmaster list is concerned

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:26 pm

Pete44ru wrote:[the $2 NICS check.]

"Fluff" charges really tick me off !

Just an extra profit margin, since the NICS is zero-cost.

Not 100% but I think the charge is a state mandated thing. It goes to the state police to fund the call center.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:30 pm

OD wrote:I'd go with the Smith, Hobie.

Neat Dan!

Friend has a LMT upper he got for $135...

yep, $135... some folks

Sadly, I did something else...

foxtrapper · Post by **foxtrapper** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:41 pm

Hobie welcome to the" Dark Side" Go ahead and get one I did last year didn't even fire it yet! Bushmaster A3 the one with the removable carry handle much better setup for optics. Which one to get depends on what you want it for. If your going hardcore taking training classes putting hundreds of rounds downrange at a session something for a LEO where your life depends on it go to the left side of the chart of the above post ,LMT,Colt etc. If your looking for fun plinking or hunting a S&Wor Bushy will do. Get plenty of mags and to save yourself a couple hundred bucks buy the upper and lower separately . If its not a complete gun you save the federal excise tax. Takes two pins to put together. Wait you know that, 27 years in the military

. Small dig at the locked thread LOL. Soooo yes buy it while you still can

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:49 pm

foxtrapper wrote: yes buy it while you still can

Sound advice.

Several years ago I bought a Colt HBAR for highpower. Never did get it to shoot the way I thought it should. My friend brought out a Bushmaster one day and shot rings around me with it. Bushmaster upper solved all my problems.

From past experience, get lots of mags. "while you still can."

OD* · Post by OD* » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:30 pm

He got an LMT upper he got for $135!?!

Man, why can't we have luck like that.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:51 pm

OD wrote:He got an LMT upper he got for $135!?!

Man, why can't we have luck like that.

I never have such luck!

A mutual friend owed him his upper but had already sold it (yeah, sold it) so he gave him this one he'd just traded into but he had no idea what it was.

Turn about fair play I'd say.

FALPhil · Post by **FALPhil** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:52 pm

$99 for a Sigma? You gotta be kidding. I would have thought they would throw in a blister pack of 3 for free.

I guess you could always use it for trade goods...

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:59 pm

I bought each of my boys an AR-15 before they went into the Air Force. Knowing the small amount of firearm instruction they would get in the USAF, I thought they ought to know how to operate the US Service rifle.

I liked my youngest's Armalite carbine so much that I bought myself one just like it, and have since added a bull barrelled "varmint" rifle, and have two complete lowers just in case we get another assault weapons ban during the next administration.

I would think there will be a lot of NIB Sigma's for sale, CHEAP, as a result of that promotion <G>.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:18 pm

Hobie, build one! What says familiarity with a weapon like building it yerowndurnself?

BTW, I decided a couple of months ago that I no longer own EBRs. Sure, I have a handful of "military style weapons" but there's nothing evil about them, nor have they ever done anything evil.

None of them have ever tried to force their way out of the safe for the purpose of creating havoc and chaos.

I can load one, leave it on the table and it WILL NOT jump up and go looking for something to shoot.

Not one has ever snuck out of the house and attempted a drive by bayonetting.

After examining the facts, I decided they were NOT Evil Black Rifles! Rather, they are FBRs or FRIENDLY Black Rifles!

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:27 pm

I am thinking I will build one. You might say I've participated in the activity before...

AND I had an early carbine, sans forward assist. Might have some experience with the genre.

I use the term "EBR" as a dig who actually think they are so.

Yeah, better to spend $99 on a Sigma than a Lorcin or...

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:38 pm

Maybe something else to ponder in the AR field. I don't know why but I always liked the old A-1 models and never was as fond as following generations of rifles.
A while back a bunch of the A-1 uppers w/teardrop forward assist came on the market and I got one sans bolt cheap. It didn't look to be fired before I got my paws on it.

It of course is better suited to 55 gr. bullets but I bought several cases when it was cheap and the A-1 upper on a Bushy A-2 lower gets more use than the others do by a large margin.
I think there still A-1 uppers on the market if anyone besides me likes 'em.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:39 pm

Hobie wrote:I use the term "EBR" as a dig who actually think they are so.

For years I have as well. I figure I can befuddle "them" with some basic facts AND use a "feel good" name...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:41 pm

What is the significance of the "Milspec Dia. FCG Pins"?

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:01 pm

Hobie wrote:.....

Do I REALLY need an EBR?

No, you need THE evil black rifle, an FAL.

Jack

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:13 pm

Griff wrote:What is the significance of the "Milspec Dia. FCG Pins"?

Colt fans can give you the dates, but at sometime in the 80s-90s Colt changed the diameter of the FCG pins and the forward takedown pin to larger than mil-spec size.

Supposedly it was to keep neer-do-wells from slapping those easy to obtain M16 parts into an AR.

All it really means is that if you have a Colt from that era, it's a bit of a pain to get aftermarket parts to fit without some work as I understand it.

jhrosier, everyone should have at least one FAL...

OD* · Post by OD* » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:34 pm

Griff wrote:What is the significance of the "Milspec Dia. FCG Pins"?

awp101, pretty well covered it. That and the are two Colt companies producing AR15s, Colt Defense LLC and Colt's Manufacturing LLC., the guns aren't the same.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:56 pm

My EBR is a Saiga 7.62x39 with a 16" barrel. It is based on the AK-47 and will accept many AK parts. I also have a MAK-90, which is a Modified AK. Both have 30 round mags. The Saiga has a polymer stock that is black. Thus my EBR.

When I got the MAK it came with a 75 round drum magazine. I haven't shot it yet with the drum. I'll be buying a case or 2 of x39 at the next Dulles gun show.

H_Talon · Post by **H_Talon** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:10 am

Hobie wrote:I am thinking I will build one. You might say I've participated in the activity before... AND I had an early carbine, sans forward assist. Might have some experience with the genre.

I use the term "EBR" as a dig who actually think they are so.

Yeah, better to spend $99 on a Sigma than a Lorcin or...

bulding is the way to go .. since no one has suggested it check out
http://www.AR15.com and http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php ..
all the info you could ever need ...

enjoy and post pic's when you get it built ... and look into piston
systems rather direct gas system ... lots of shooting and little cleaning.

Talon

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:30 am

For myself, it always comes down to what can I get that I rally want for the same money??

So, for my own personal wants, I bought a tuned Tanker Garand in 7.62 and an 870P for what one AR would have cost here at that time. Since then, Levers.

That Garand will empty clips ito an inch at 100 yards when prone, slung, and using good ammo.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:38 am

OD wrote:
Griff wrote:What is the significance of the "Milspec Dia. FCG Pins"?
awp101, pretty well covered it. That and the are two Colt companies producing AR15s, Colt Defense LLC and Colt's Manufacturing LLC., the guns aren't the same.

Dan,
Can you tell us more about that? Which company got the big contract?

Lloyd Smale · Post by **Lloyd Smale** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:04 am

just read an article in american rifleman that said the 3030 win was actually bought by the gov. in ww2 for troups to use.

FWiedner wrote:
canonsix wrote:Yes,after all the leveractio rifle was the assault rifle of its time,why not have a EBR now Doug
Wasn't there a thread a couple of days back about how the military had never adopted a lever action gun as a service rifle?

I'd use that as an argument that there has never been a lever-action "assault rifle".

Lever-actions are thus not "evil".

mescalero1 wrote:... those of us who ride the border find them to be useful
I live in Dallas but travel between Presidio and McAllen a few times a month, and I still stuff a levergun of one model or another into the back seat.

I've got a couple of EBR's but people don't seem to stare or freak-out when they see a Model '94.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:10 am

FWiedner,
Flattop, 2x scope, collapsible stock, it travels well.
Scope helps old eyes

Ot - Nearly Sucked into buying EBR

Ot - Nearly Sucked into buying EBR

Re: Ot - Nearly Sucked into buying EBR