Designing a new modern Lever gun ?

[tomtex]

The reason for this topic, is to help dealers gun smiths and manufacturers .To know and give we the buyers ,what we want and are willing to pay for?
Maybe the moderator will keep this topic around so posters can read and add to it.

[Griff]

...Would you make a coach gun out of a Purdy?

In general, I totally agree.

But... I happen to think my coachgun

is real purdy!

[dsmith512]

Well just for fun how about something like Big Baby

[firefuzz]

How about a re-designed '95 Winchester in both take-down and solid frames with a detachable box mag? With modern steels the action will handle most reasonable cartridges, and there are some wonderful wildcats that would really work well in a gun like this.

Rob

[Griff]

How about a re-designed '95 Winchester in both take-down and solid frames with a detachable box mag? With modern steels the action will handle most reasonable cartridges, and there are some wonderful wildcats that would really work well in a gun like this.

Rob

Yeah, something sorta like the Browning BLR?

[quietman]

Take the accuracy enhancements Marlin came up with in the Marlin Express series and pass them down to the other calibers when building them with a half length mag tube. Also, add a through bolt for the stock and an elevated comb option for the stock.

In reality, I'd really like to see more bullet makers come up with their versions of the Hornady FTX for existing calibers and a powder company create a knock off of Hornady's magic powder.

About the only other thing I can think of is a .243 and .270 Marlin Express. They could probably just neck down the 308 (for 243) and 338 (for 270) cases.

[firefuzz]

How about a re-designed '95 Winchester in both take-down and solid frames with a detachable box mag? With modern steels the action will handle most reasonable cartridges, and there are some wonderful wildcats that would really work well in a gun like this.

Rob

Yeah, something sorta like the Browning BLR?

Nope, something like a '95 TD with a detachable box mag. Had a couple of BLR's...like the '95 better. The old short action, steel framed BLRs were nice guns, the new long actioned one's do nothing for me and I want something to handle longer cartridges.

Rob

[tomtex]

How about a re-designed '95 Winchester in both take-down and solid frames with a detachable box mag? With modern steels the action will handle most reasonable cartridges, and there are some wonderful wildcats that would really work well in a gun like this.

Rob

What would pay for it ?

[tomtex]

I'm ready for box magazine feed on lever guns ,for spree/ pointed type ammo.

What ammo of this type would you like to see chambered to box magazine lever guns ?

One type would be for all that cheap 7.62x39 , ammo from www.sskindustries.com , 556mm/223,and5.7x28,

[tomtex]

What would you like to see from heny repeating arms www.henyprpeating.com ?

[Rexster]

I don't think I could improve much on the design of the Browning BLR, except for such details as the finish and the front sight. I like the Savage 99, too, but don't own one, so am not familiar with all its details.

It was a Lightning BLR, in 1997, that caught my eye, and turned my attention toward lever rifles in the first place, so I had no predisposition toward tubular magazines. I had already had an interest in traditional single-shot rifles, and some other rifles, so a tube magazine, in my mind, is not particularly aesthetically pleasing. To me, tubular magazines make a rifle look utilitarian. Not that utilitarian is a a bad thing, of course.

[firefuzz]

How about a re-designed '95 Winchester in both take-down and solid frames with a detachable box mag? With modern steels the action will handle most reasonable cartridges, and there are some wonderful wildcats that would really work well in a gun like this.

Rob

What would pay for it ?

What or who would pay for any of these guns we're discussing, other than the person wanting it and maybe a few more. I considered this a pipe dream thread.

Rob

[rimrock]

a new modern lever would--

1. have a lever a little larger than stock marlin but not quite the size of the one's made by Dave Clay

2, have no slop in the trigger and a single piece firing pin as safe as current marlin

3. have a forearm like winchesters not the thick marlin

4. have an octagon barrel

5. have a ladder rear sight

6. have the receiver strength of the winnie black shadow, and

7. twist for large for caliber bullets

rimrock

[tomtex]

Note: Henry site is www.henryrepeating.com

[adirondakjack]

How about a re-designed '95 Winchester in both take-down and solid frames with a detachable box mag? With modern steels the action will handle most reasonable cartridges, and there are some wonderful wildcats that would really work well in a gun like this.

Rob

What would pay for it ?

What or who would pay for any of these guns we're discussing, other than the person wanting it and maybe a few more. I considered this a pipe dream thread.

Rob

Not for nothing, but my "go to" CAS rifle is a Marlin CB-L I bought lightly used for $525, but s it now exists, with severe modding, a chopped barrel, Marbles Tang Peep sight, "Grabber" front sight, 1pc firing pin, reduced power springs, etc, etc, etc, I got $1100 in it. And aside from the cut barrel, I have a second that is almost as pricey with the same work.

Folks pay $1300+ for Uberti toggle links then send em out for work to make em "race ready" for CAS.
Look at the take downs done by the firm in Alaska, and what they get for em.....
Clearly some small market exists.

[tomtex]

Some other ammo for box magazine lever guns are 6.8 Rem, 6.5 MPC, 6.5 Graendel and the 375 JDJ this is a neck down 444 marlin.

[tomtex]

We are talking about modern lever designs on this topic, and the types of ammo they could use. So manufactures can take a look at what you the customers wants. If the market demands it , then some one will try to build it . if you want a all weather lever rifle, then tell them , you want larger loop, better sights, deferent type of stock , box magazines Ruger type, just have you say Note : all Manufactures want to know what you will pay for it (its called price point )

[tomtex]

We are talking about modern lever designs on this topic, and the types of ammo they could use. So manufactures can take a look at what you the customers wants. If the market demands it , then some one will try to build it . if you want a all weather lever rifle, then tell them , you want larger loop, better sights, deferent type of stock , box magazines Ruger type, just have you say Note : all Manufactures want to know what you will pay for it (its called price point )

[Greg Koziol]

how about a marlin 1895 guide gun with a pistol grip, syntheic stock, stainless action, and chambered in a .45-90 or .45-120.

[MrMurphy]

Modern production Savage 99 with irons that are not an afterthought. A good, QD-and-hold-the-zero Picatinny rail on top, most modern scopes are going this way on the military side, eventually it'll cross over (has started to already).

All-weather/stainless/synthetic as an option.

[tomtex]

Modern production Savage 99 with irons that are not an afterthought. A good, QD-and-hold-the-zero Picatinny rail on top, most modern scopes are going this way on the military side, eventually it'll cross over (has started to already).

All-weather/stainless/synthetic as an option.

Note: the below questions or for those who want to comment.

What type of, sights peep, ladder or both , would you want them mounted on rail ? What about the SAV 99 action and lever throw and box magazine, need any improvements ? any special ammo you want to use in SAV 99 Any comments on the Win 95 or BLR

[MrMurphy]

Sights? Aperature. An optional ladder, but aperatures are superior and most current shooters are either .mil trained or have shot enough .mil type rifles to where they are more familiar with them. The incredibly crappy "irons" put on current bolt actions are like spare tires. They're usable....just.

A good, adjustable ladder would work, but most would never use it to the extent it can be used. An easily adjustable aperature would make more sense.


I would not want them mounted on the rail, as that takes up rail space and adds height. I would put the aperature behind it, and have the option of a folding/low profile version for those intending to run scopes primarily. Something similar to what CZ and ZKK have done on their bolt guns.

Having worked for a manufacturer in the business, these aren't just random ideas. I've put thought into it.

[Malamute]

Like it or not, most levergun owners are not iron-sight "purists". My Marlin 39A has worn a scope since 1978.
Which brings me to the point of this post. It seems to me that the scope base setup on 39A's is basically an afterthought. Not stable or rigid enough to suit me.....

I had trouble with the 2 screw Weaver base on my Marlin 39. I could move it with a good bump. I'd like to scope it again, and am considering having my gunsmith just drill and tap a third screw centered between the 2 existing holes.

[tomtex]

Members ,can each of us try to do a summery of the views/comments expressed on this topic, and find a bottom line ?

Today,in my opinion the closes design to a modern lever rifle with a box magazine is the Browning BLR ,
It should have the following options.
All weather finish, and/or stainless steel.
Sights, peep, ladder/peep to 500 yds
Military type peep sights to 600 ydr
rail, scout type.
brake down type BLR
Added ammo Cal 762x39 , 6.8 Rem ,6.5 , 375 JDJ a neck down 444 Marlin.

[Ben_Rumson]

Yes men... With just a flick of the leverswitch, this modern levergun with special short lever throw is converted to the vertical pistol grip... A quick magazine swap and you're up to speed with the best of them for whatever hunting situation may present itself.....Shown converted with optional camo stock!!!...

[tomtex]

Yes men... With just a flick of the leverswitch, this modern levergun with special short lever throw is converted to the vertical pistol grip... A quick magazine swap and you're up to speed with the best of them for whatever hunting situation may present itself.....Shown converted with optional camo stock!!!...

Looks' to me that you could load that BLR and fight off Bad guys all day on the border,before you needed second magazine he he.
OK , let it come with two magazines from 5 to 10 rds your chose, add bigger lever loop ,give it an all weather finish,
add better barrel , put saddle ring on side, and sling swivel on side or top ,3 way sling. For ammo add 375 JDJ, 6.5,6.8 Rem, and 7.62x39 .

***Then http://www.Browning.com , you need to come out with a all hand gun cal version of the BLR, from 38 to 445 mag.

Call www.browing.com and have your say !!!

[Ben_Rumson]

The scope mount would be laser coupled and adjust automatically for range for a range of calibers too..

[Old Ironsights]

Yes men... With just a flick of the leverswitch, this modern levergun with special short lever throw is converted to the vertical pistol grip... A quick magazine swap and you're up to speed with the best of them for whatever hunting situation may present itself.....Shown converted with optional camo stock!!!...

Make that a Savage 99C (TD) with a PMag 20RL, a Lyman peep and a Piccatinny where the rear dovetail goes and you won't need a curved magazine... and you won't have to adjust the throw either.

[Ben_Rumson]

Here's what's wrong with a TD 99... No meat in the receiver ring...IF it was a C model to boot, there wouldn't be much meat left at all...

I'll just stick with a pretty much bone stock 99 & the 6 rounds I get with the rotary mag system.. The whole giddy up BLR EBR CON I whumped up, was done with tongue in cheek anyways...

[Old Ironsights]

Tongue in cheek or not, I think it would be a hoot to be able to take a Levergun to a tacticool mall-ninja ebr event and be able to keep up. The mag is the only real problem.

As for the redesign, the reciever ring would have extra beefing room if a redesigned 99 went with a stock PMag instead of the tapered Savage model...

[tomtex]

Will the members post there opinions/comments on the Browning box magazine lever gun , The following lever rifles are all now discontinued. The Win 95 & 88, Sav 99, Ruger 96 , leaving just the BLR Browning , could members make suggestion to Browning on improvements .
Look at design ,ergo, all weather use, wood types or composites for stock, action , lever loop, sighs , add ammo types and so on.
I would like to see http://www.browning.com ,come out with a new smaller version of the BLR chambered in only hand gun ammo.
So remember costs ,list options and items that should come stander, and if you want what you expect to pay for the rifle .

E-mail Browning and have your say! That is ,If you want a BLR utility hunting tool for field work , and not the purrddy BLR thing that few want to buy . Less act and tell them what we want change before Browning BLR is discontinued this modern lever gun .

And if you want to try to bring back the others box mag types, Win 88/95 ,Sav 99, Ruger 96 then contact them as well and have your say . AND DON'T FORGET TO TELL THEM TO COME HERE TO http://www.levergunscommunity.com ,and talk to their customers .

[Old Ironsights]

Will members post there opinions on the following box magazine lever guns Win 95 & 88, Sav 99, Ruger ,Browning BLR,

#1, I can't count the '95 because its mag isn't detatchable.

I like(d) my Ruger 96,and was hopeful the Win 88 was similar handling. It was not. I don't care for the 88.

The BLR is a fine rifle, but quite complex (IMO) what with its rotary bolt & lever driven gearbox. The lever throw would also necessitate a curved magazine for anything much larger than OEM.

The Savage 99 design seems to me to hold the most potential if "upgraded" to modern weather resistant metals/coatings. The box magazine has an easy to operate button release, the lever throw won't impede a longer magazine, the action length handles milspec nicely, and the Take Down version is proven as well. Not much redesign would be needed at all, only minor tweaks, and it could be reintroduced with options to suit the most traditional to the most tacticool.

It's what I would be building if I had the $$$$

[Griff]

Ok, I've reconsidered.

2006TD.JPG

2006's announced take-down mdl 94, but make mine in a top-eject.

[MrMurphy]

Savage 99:

Upgraded to modern materials and tooling.

Added calibers, the various .308-based and .30-06 based rounds would cover most things people are interested in.

A 5.56-size model would be rather interesting if it would take the 6.8, 6.5 Grendel, etc all of which have excellent long range performance.


Variety of barrel lengths from 16-24". All weather stock and finish options. This is not 1873. Modern materials exist, embrace them.

If you went the removable mag route, a hunting magazine release designed along military lines, that won't dump the mag when it's not supposed to, but will drop the mag without requiring three hands two feet and a dog.


Winchester 95: Affordable (under a grand) version....otherwise...changing it would be "Not a '95" though upgraded finishes (harder finishes, etc) in a "working gun" model would be nice.

Ruger 96: Never quite gave it a workout. The incredibly crappy irons Ruger puts on their smaller rifles never exactly got me wildly excited. Chambering one in .45 ACP would probably get some attention, as would chambering one in 10mm.


BLR: One that doesn't cost almost a grand, and is weatherproof. Some better sights, stainless/synthetic option (or at least a tough, weatherproof finish like Ion Bond or Black-T, etc) would do. Having actual workable irons and I'd be fine "as is" if it didn't cost $800. The action is rather complex, if they simplified it (something like the Savage) and still made it work, i'd be fine.

[tomtex]

I want a box magazine lever rifle chambered for the cheap Russian 7.62x32 ammo ( ak 47 sks type )

[Fiddler]

I dry-fired my BLR a few times yesterday and was reminded of the only thing I don't like about that rifle.
Browning, I know you're reading this!
Can't you do something about that *%$#! trigger!
I mean, after all, the BLR is such a tack driver. Doesn't it at least deserve a decent trigger so it can fully live up to its potential?

[Old Ironsights]

I want a box magazine lever rifle chambered for the cheap Russian 7.62x32 ammo ( ak 47 sks type )

FWIU almost any box fed bolt/lever in .308 can shoot 7.62x39 with naught but a chamber adapter ...

[tomtex]

Wonder if Rem/Marlin will come out with a new box magazine lever rifle cambered in 7.63x39 necked down to 6mm ppc or Bain & Davis 357 / a neck down 44 mag to 357 for the 1894 model, and maybe also open a custom shop for Marlin lever guns?

If they had enough customer demand maybe they will, have your say at tel 1-800-243-9700 or www.info@remington.com

[tomtex]

What will pointed bullets in the following cartridges give us over the flat nose types commending used in tube lever guns, 357, 44 ,45, 444, 45-70 cal ?

[Old Ironsights]

What will pointed bullets in the following cartridges give us over the flat nose types commending used in tube lever guns, 357, 44 ,45, 444, 45-70 cal ?

Nothing at all. I can find no reason to "improve" a tube fed gun in any of those calibers.

But I'm not a bolt guy, nor am I a gas-gun guy, but I do think there is a place for long-range pointy bullets (like out here in wyoming), thus, a modern design pointy-bullet Lever is not undesireable - especially if using a MilSpec cartridge and milspec box magazine.