92 in 327 Magnum?

[Ron Macy]

Has anyone here ever explored the possibility of a Model 92 in 327 Magnum? Living here in Indiana I think a Model 92 I could shoot with the 327 Magnum or with the tamer 32 Magnum would be versatile enough to handle 99% of the shooting I do.

I have wished NEF would come out with their nice single shot in 327 but it doesn't seem to be on the horizon.

[olyinaz]

It would be an outstanding caliber in the 92 (or many other lever guns) but I won't hold my breath. Still, Rossi (Taurus) seems keen to try new things so one never knows.

Personally, I'm pining for a Volcanic in .40 S&W but I'm pretty sure I'd have to get Charley to hand make me one.

Best,
Oly

[eric65]

Where are you in Indiana? Always looking for new shooting buddies.

[blackhawk44]

With the pressures involved, the .327 would likely be problematic at best. Only Rossi, with their .454 experience, could even consider it.

[Tycer]

What kind of velocities would you like to get?

[AJMD429]

.32-20 in a modern gun isn't too far behind the .327 FedMag, although .357 Mag does quite well and is easier to find!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

.32-20 in a modern gun isn't too far behind the .327 FedMag, although .357 Mag does quite well and is easier to find!

In a modern 92 hand loaded 32-20 will do anything the 327m will do. As for Rossi making one in 327 or even 32mag it's not likely to happen. The cart guides will need to be much closer together than they are for the 32-20 because the rims of the 327mag is a much smaller Dia. The problem then becomes getting the bolt to pass between them. Even the 32-20 bolts are clearanced to do this.

At one time the chiappa folks advertised a 32mag 92 but they never made it to market. I suspect it was because of this same issue.

[JReed]

Where are you in Indiana? Always looking for new shooting buddies.

Yes were are you at? I am out in Auburn. There are quite a few of us around here.

[gak]

.32-20 in a modern gun isn't too far behind the .327 FedMag, although .357 Mag does quite well and is easier to find!

In a modern 92 hand loaded 32-20 will do anything the 327m will do. As for Rossi making one in 327 or even 32mag it's not likely to happen. The cart guides will need to be much closer together than they are for the 32-20 because the rims of the 327mag is a much smaller Dia. The problem then becomes getting the bolt to pass between them. Even the 32-20 bolts are clearanced to do this.

At one time the chiappa folks advertised a 32mag 92 but they never made it to market. I suspect it was because of this same issue.

If this is/remains an issue for getting a Rossi to market, here's hoping Marlin will come out with a nice (slim) carbine and rifle!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

.32-20 in a modern gun isn't too far behind the .327 FedMag, although .357 Mag does quite well and is easier to find!

In a modern 92 hand loaded 32-20 will do anything the 327m will do. As for Rossi making one in 327 or even 32mag it's not likely to happen. The cart guides will need to be much closer together than they are for the 32-20 because the rims of the 327mag is a much smaller Dia. The problem then becomes getting the bolt to pass between them. Even the 32-20 bolts are clearanced to do this.

At one time the chiappa folks advertised a 32mag 92 but they never made it to market. I suspect it was because of this same issue.

If this is/remains an issue for getting a Rossi to market, here's hoping Marlin will come out with a nice (slim) carbine and rifle!

Marlin did a 32 H&R mag 20" oct rifle, but they discontinued it. It didn't do that well with the CAS folks I think because it was too front heavy (it also had the twin mag tube loading, more weight). As for a marlin in 327m, maybe but it I don't know what the pressure is in that cart. Might be too high.

[william iorg]

I am shooting the 327 Federal with heavy for the caliber bullets in the Ruger Blackhawk. With the 125-grain NEI #76 bullet I am exceeding 1,400 fps from the 5 ½” barrel Using Hodgdon Lil’ Gun.
Alliant 2400 will push the NEI #82 122-grain bullet to 1,400 fps.
The 32-20 will push the 115-grain Lyman 311008 to the 1,400 fps mark using Alliant 2400 in the Marlin 1894 but my case life is short at these higher pressures.
I believe the 327 Federal has twin advantages of easier reloading due to the straight wall case and I believe better case life. I have a Marlin 1894 in 32-20 and the rear of the chamber is cut quite large. The Marlin is fine for 1,200 fps+ loads but when the pressures get high the case life gets short in my Marlin 1894.

Edit]I should have mentioned I have loaded the 110-grain bullets to much higher velocities but as the pressure goes up the case life gets short.
13.5 grains of IMR 4227 pushed the 110-grain Speer 1,800 fps in the Marlin 1894 and 1,400 fps in the Ruger Buckeye Blackhawk. Case life is reasonable with these loads but the primers pockets do expand and the cases do stretch quickly. You don’t want to break a 32-20 case as they tend to move forward in the Marlin chamber and a brush will not bring them out.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I am shooting the 327 Federal with heavy for the caliber bullets in the Ruger Blackhawk. With the 125-grain NEI #76 bullet I am exceeding 1,400 fps from the 5 ½” barrel Using Hodgdon Lil’ Gun.
Alliant 2400 will push the NEI #82 122-grain bullet to 1,400 fps.
The 32-20 will push the 115-grain Lyman 311008 to the 1,400 fps mark using Alliant 2400 in the Marlin 1894 but my case life is short at these higher pressures.
I believe the 327 Federal has twin advantages of easier reloading due to the straight wall case and I believe better case life. I have a Marlin 1894 in 32-20 and the rear of the chamber is cut quite large. The Marlin is fine for 1,200 fps+ loads but when the pressures get high the case life gets short in my Marlin 1894.

Edit]I should have mentioned I have loaded the 110-grain bullets to much higher velocities but as the pressure goes up the case life gets short.
13.5 grains of IMR 4227 pushed the 110-grain Speer 1,800 fps in the Marlin 1894 and 1,400 fps in the Ruger Buckeye Blackhawk. Case life is reasonable with these loads but the primers pockets do expand and the cases do stretch quickly. You don’t want to break a 32-20 case as they tend to move forward in the Marlin chamber and a brush will not bring them out.

That's a good point. 32wcf brass is much thinner. You make a good argument for necking a 357mag case to 32 cal. to be used in a rebarrel Rossi 92 or a re-chambered Marlin levergun. But on the other hand, you could buy a lot of brass for what that's gonna cost.

[william iorg]

I agree the Model 92 with a wildcat based on the 357 Magnum appears to answer the feeding issues, it is an intriguing idea. As outlined below it might be as simple as a barrel swap and a set of custom dies.
I wondered about a .32 caliber wildcat based on the 357 Magnum. The 357 Magnum has an established pressure value of 35,000 PSI and the newer 327 Federal has an established pressure of 45,000 PSI. My hope would be that the larger case capacity of the parent 357 Magnum would hold pressure within this limit while allowing us to at least equal the velocity of the 327 Federal in the rifle barrels.
This is the same problem the 256 Winchester has when using the 357 Magnum case for forming. At the upper load levels we are exceeding the limit for 357 Magnum brass and they break at the pressure ring within 4 shots.
We could use the 357 Maximum case as our parent and this would probably make the wildcat feasible.

Looking at the wildcat I took the 357 Maximum and shortened it to 1.2900”. I put the point of the shoulder at .9390” and the bottom of the neck at .9700” This give us the .320” inch neck we need to seat the 115-grain Lyman 311008 bullet properly. This gives us a COAL of 1.605”. In order to do this I blew the shoulder out to .3650” and this gives us an approximate 25 degree shoulder. I made the case mouth diameter the same as the 327, .3370”.

This gives us a total water capacity of 23.4 grains compared to the 327 Federal 16.9 grains.
With the bullet seated to the bottom of the neck we have a water capacity of 17.2 grains for the wildcat and 10.6 grains for the 327 Federal. The case would be easy to form and is straight enough that with a good cylinder it may not suffer from setback problems in a revolver.

The 7.4 grains of water increase over the 327 Federal is significant. The unknown variable is whether or not the cartridge would work in the revolvers. I can only work in CUP estimates so I hope I gave enough capacity information for someone who is interested in the idea to work up a pressure estimate in PSI, allowing us to compare apples to apples.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I agree the Model 92 with a wildcat based on the 357 Magnum appears to answer the feeding issues, it is an intriguing idea. As outlined below it might be as simple as a barrel swap and a set of custom dies.
I wondered about a .32 caliber wildcat based on the 357 Magnum. The 357 Magnum has an established pressure value of 35,000 PSI and the newer 327 Federal has an established pressure of 45,000 PSI. My hope would be that the larger case capacity of the parent 357 Magnum would hold pressure within this limit while allowing us to at least equal the velocity of the 327 Federal in the rifle barrels.
This is the same problem the 256 Winchester has when using the 357 Magnum case for forming. At the upper load levels we are exceeding the limit for 357 Magnum brass and they break at the pressure ring within 4 shots.
We could use the 357 Maximum case as our parent and this would probably make the wildcat feasible.

Looking at the wildcat I took the 357 Maximum and shortened it to 1.2900”. I put the point of the shoulder at .9390” and the bottom of the neck at .9700” This give us the .320” inch neck we need to seat the 115-grain Lyman 311008 bullet properly. This gives us a COAL of 1.605”. In order to do this I blew the shoulder out to .3650” and this gives us an approximate 25 degree shoulder. I made the case mouth diameter the same as the 327, .3370”.

This gives us a total water capacity of 23.4 grains compared to the 327 Federal 16.9 grains.
With the bullet seated to the bottom of the neck we have a water capacity of 17.2 grains for the wildcat and 10.6 grains for the 327 Federal. The case would be easy to form and is straight enough that with a good cylinder it may not suffer from setback problems in a revolver.

The 7.4 grains of water increase over the 327 Federal is significant. The unknown variable is whether or not the cartridge would work in the revolvers. I can only work in CUP estimates so I hope I gave enough capacity information for someone who is interested in the idea to work up a pressure estimate in PSI, allowing us to compare apples to apples.

Good stuff!

[Hobie]

Paco did a .30 cal on the .357 Mag. I can't find the article on line... There is also the .30/357 GNR by Gary Reeder. Also... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=14173