OT: Where's Terry???

[J Miller]

WELL, I'M WONDERING WHERE TERRY MURBACH IS? HE HASN'T POSTED HERE SINCE AUGUST 6TH AND HIS LAST VISIT WAS ON THE 28TH. I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING HIM OVER ON SINGLEACTIONS OR TRF EITHER.
I'M HOPING HE'S DOING ALRIGHT.

ANYBODY HEAR FROM HIM LATELY?

JOE

[Blaine]

I think the caplock broke on his keyboard.

[dkmlever]

DARN, I ALWAYS LIKE SEEING HIS RESPONSES.
All kidding aside, he is very knowledable.

[J Miller]

I think the caplock broke on his keyboard.

Well, here's hoping he can get it fixed and come back. He's needed, and missed here by many of us I'll bet.

Joe

[Rusty]

I was wondering what happened?

[Mich Hunter]

We get together when we can as I live on the otherside of town. Unfortunitly, work has me putting in alot of hours and doesn't leave me with much free time. I just ran into him last weekend at a gun show here in Rapid. He is doing well and doing alot of shooting. I'll tell you one thing, he is a wealth of knowledge.

[kimwcook]

We get together when we can as I live on the otherside of town. Unfortunitly, work has me putting in alot of hours and doesn't leave me with much free time. I just ran into him last weekend at a gun show here in Rapid. He is doing well and doing alot of shooting. I'll tell you one thing, he is a wealth of knowledge.

That's good news and that solves that. I know I get busy and don't get here as often as I'd like at times.

[AJMD429]

I just ran into him last weekend at a gun show here in Rapid.

. . . . some of us just have to know. . .


. . . does he TALK in ALL-CAPS, too...?


Anyhow, I enjoy his posts, caps or not.

[.45colt]

It may just be Me but I kind of felt that Terry was run out of here a while back. I don't pay much mind to his hollerin and attitude cause thats just how alot of the Elders Were when I was a kid.He really got riled up when people asked beginner questions. Why??? because when He was wanting to Learn years ago You had to read,get magazines or go to the library, write letters and get information yourself.
When You get through the hard exterior there is not only a very Experienced Shooter but a Hell of a Good Man.

[BigSky56]

Seems that some people got their panties knotted up over a ambiguous question and typing style then people decided to confess their feelings to Terry and it went downhill from there. Life's tough on the frontier. danny

[3leggedturtle]

. . . does he TALK in ALL-CAPS, too[/i]...?
He is ACTUALLY very quiet and soft-spoken in person and on the phone, EXCEPT when you tell him your hauling 45,000lbs of beer

[Mokwaw]

I read some where that he went back to writing for one of the gun rags. Probably busy making deadlines.

[firefuzz]

Seems that some people got their panties knotted up over a ambiguous question and typing style then people decided to confess their feelings to Terry and it went downhill from there. Life's tough on the frontier. danny

This is the thread in question:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=29119

The ALL CAPS thing bothers me not in the least. I took Terry's response as a joke, but I try to take most "shortness" as a joke because I don't care for confrontation. If I had been the new member who asked what he thought was a valid question I probably would have thought WTH?

Nate asked the most pertinent question of Terry in the last post on the first page, which went unanswered. I always thought that Terry's being abrupt with people was in jest, until his response to COSteve, another knowledgable member, later in the thread. Now I wonder. Without a doubt he is a wealth of knowledge, as are many others here, but you never see them respond to a newbies questions with anything other than patience and direction. As a firearms instructor for going on thirty years, and a student of them since I was old enough to hold one, I've found that the later is the better way of handling people if you want them to actually learn something, if you are short and ill-tempered with them they won't come back. And isn't that what these forums are all about....the exchange of information about topics we enjoy?

I belong to several firearms forums, this is the one I come to most. The reason is the friendly manner that people are handled and responded to here. I've asked some pretty dumb questions, dumb is determined by someone's knowledge base on a topic, and was always responded to in a friendly, helpful manner. If everyone here responded in Terrys fashion I wouldn't be here.

Terry chided the OP in a public forum and got it handed back to him in the same manner, all's good. If you want to handle things in that manner you had better be able to take it as well as dish it out. I truly hope he takes a deep breath, chills a little and comes back. The absence of his knowledge is a true waste.

Rob

[Hobie]

A very disappointing example of ignorant intolerance.

[Old Savage]

Oh Well.

[Blaine]

He'd talk hard TO you, but never down to you.

[Charles]

It takes all kinds of folks to make a world. Terry, is a fellow with strong opinions based on experience, little patience with folks who ask questions he thinks are silly, and a short fuse. He has also lived long enough to think he can be himself, wherever he is and folks can deal with that.

Some might find this "brusque" or "having an attitude" or whatever. I don't. He is like many of the old time ranchers, peace officers and other independent type folks I have known over the years. He remindes me of many men in my family, who loved and nurtured me as I grew up.

With men like Terry, you just learn where their tender spots are and walk over or around those spots and don't step on them. There is just no need to step on a land mine, if you know where it is. Over the years, on several boards, I have found myself on Terry's side on the substance of most issues. We have never had a cross word or post.

Terry is a treasure, if folks could just learn to accept him for who and what he is, without the necessity of feeling he has to conform to their notions and ideas.

I will confess to being about Terry's age and went through the same self motivated, self taught learning experience about guns he did. Those of us, that belong to that generation of "gun nuts", do get irritated by folks who want knowledge, learning and experience handed to them on a silver platter without paying the price is sweat and mental effort.

This is entirely different from the thinking of the "internet generation", who want answers without being willing to dig for themsleves. We tend to view these folks as parasites who feed off the sweat, exprerience, hard work and knowledge of others. I realize that is just a point of view and quite perjorative, but perhaps that will help some folks understand Terry's and others lack of patience with some of the questions that pop up on these board.

I submit the last above paragraph as a metaphor to aid in understanding and do not intend for it to represent reality, It is just a way of stating a point of view that might be helpful to others in understanding that point of view. Understanding, does not mean agreement.

[Hobie]

Thank you for that Charles.

[Old Savage]

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

The problem here http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=29119 that has cropped up many times and been discussed many times is that Terry takes the initiative to go after people who are new for breaking his rules that they don't know about and are not the rules of the forum when the clear dictum as stated above is what they have read. It is he that violates the politeness. Now if you want to ignore that I guess you can for whatever reason you can but it is a clear fact. I have never had a problem with him personally and understand that he is very nice in person. I certainly don't think - have you had one of these and what do you think of it - is unreasonable or deserves being berated. It is merely and open ended question, certainly a style of investigation of a subject.

I have been waiting for him to surface as I know where there is a SA that he expressed interest in and had no knowledge of this event until now.

His knowledge is a separate subject from his behavior and to me one does not justify the other.

[olyinaz]

I will confess to being about Terry's age and went through the same self motivated, self taught learning experience about guns he did. Those of us, that belong to that generation of "gun nuts", do get irritated by folks who want knowledge, learning and experience handed to them on a silver platter without paying the price is sweat and mental effort.

This is entirely different from the thinking of the "internet generation", who want answers without being willing to dig for themsleves. We tend to view these folks as parasites who feed off the sweat, exprerience, hard work and knowledge of others. I realize that is just a point of view and quite perjorative, but perhaps that will help some folks understand Terry's and others lack of patience with some of the questions that pop up on these board.

I submit the last above paragraph as a metaphor to aid in understanding and do not intend for it to represent reality, It is just a way of stating a point of view that might be helpful to others in understanding that point of view. Understanding, does not mean agreement.

Well we can agree on that much, I understand and I disagree.

I really don't care about age once a person is past the sometimes silly youth stage (takes more or less time depending on the individual). If you're old enough to appreciate what your momma and your pastor taught you, and if you're old enough to appreciate what the Good Book says then you're old enough to understand when you're being a jerk just because you can...or because the peanut gallery will snicker and give you the high-five.

Look, I was raised on a farm in a village full of stoic Norwegians, I'm large of stature, I was a Sergeant in the infanty, I'm an airline Captain today, in short - I know all about barking at people and being dismissive and demeaning. I've got a doggone PhD in it and thanks to the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ I wont do it any longer. Praise God. I think I fully understand where you're coming from and I think I fully understand where short, brusque, intolerant and flat out RUDE people are coming from and as a Christian I think it's a sin. Period.

This thread and that original got my dander up and that's not why I come here so I will bid this thread adieu.

Best regards,
Oly

[J Miller]

Oly,

This thread is what the posters have made of it. I simply was curious about where Terry was. Seems like a bunch of folks have gotten their panties in a bunch just cos I mentioned his name. Seems to me they are the ones with the problem.

Joe

[Blaine]

....Forgive my tresspasses and those who trepass against me.....

[GoatGuy]

Amen, Charles.

[Otto]

I only read a small percentage of the threads here, so it is possible I have missed it, but, for all the talk about how knowledgeable Mr. Murbach is, I have never read one of his posts in which any actual information was relayed. He is constantly expressing his annoyance with the questions of others, but as someone in the other thread pointed out:

Terry,
If these folk's questions annoy you so much why do you even bother to answer.

More generally, there seem to be alot of people on the internet who simply want to argue more than anything, and there seem to be alot of people who have multiple standards of conduct, in reference to how they address others and the level of courtesy they expect for themselves. I usually just ignore those people, but I am embarrassed to say I sometimes take the bait, which of course does little for my own image.

[J Miller]

Oly,

Terry has made many valuable contributions to threads on this and other forums. But within the last year or so I've witnessed a tremendous number of people that have gone out of their way to bait him. The all caps thing seems to cause much more trouble than it should. Many people just can't get PAST THE USE OF ALL CAPS IN POSTS. I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO READ, AND EASIER TO TYPE.
But none the less, perhaps some research back a bit into Terry's posts would be informative.
Go to "Members" at the top of the page, then look up his name and go to his profile. Click on the link to view all his posts and check them out.

Might be interesting.

Joe

[J Miller]

I'm going to make some more comments about Terry and forum members in general.

He's probably done more shooting, hunting, hand loading than most of us put together. In other words he's got more experience than most of us do.
The way he has been treated here has been disgraceful and disgusting.
I wonder if those who have baited him and picked fights with him would treat their own fathers, uncles, grand fathers, that way? I think they probably would and that makes me ill.

This forum has lost many good members because of the juvenile, arrogant, pickiness of some of it's members. They have no respect for their elders or betters.

I've been here a long time, since this forum began, I've seen a lot of good members leave because of the treatment they received.
The forum is the lesser for it.

Terry, if you read this thread, you have my sincerest apologies for starting it. Now if Hobie would lock it down, we can get on with our PC, touchy fealy, shallow and substance free topics.

Joe

[COSteve]

As one who has chided Terry for his answers at times, I too would be sorry to have him stay away just because he got a bit of what he dished out. All of the responses to Terry's 'style' that I read were polite and constructive and show that we care about the tone here on Leverguns as much as the content.

[Otto]

The way he has been treated here has been disgraceful and disgusting.

I imagine many of his victims feel the same way.

I wonder if those who have baited him and picked fights with him would treat their own fathers, uncles, grand fathers, that way? I think they probably would and that makes me ill.

Again, I don't read every thread, but I have never seen this. I have seen people react to him.

This forum has lost many good members because of the juvenile, arrogant, pickiness of some of it's members.

Again, I imagine many of his victims feel the same way about him.

They have no respect for their elders or betters.

I try to be respectful and courteous to everyone, until they demonstrate either that they will not extend me the same courtesy, or that they are not deserving of respect. I respect the fact that you are older, or more experienced, or more knowledgeable, or more skilled. But I am not a child molester, nor a thief, and I have never tried to kiss your wife. If you can't speak to me in a civil tone, then just leave me alone. There is a huge difference between having manners and displaying basic courtesy, and politically-correct, touchy-feely, girly-man nonsense.


Just sayin' is all.

EDIT I do agree that, in general, our culture no longer teaches respect for our elders, or much of anything else for that matter.

[Charles]

I don't understand, I truly don't, why some of you guys can't resist the temptation to be critical of somebody else. If you don't like somebody, just ignore and/or avoid them.

It is one thing to disagree with anothers opinion, and quite another thing to assail the personality of another person. I guess it has to do with the ability to see the speck of dust in another person's eye, while being unable to see the telephone pole hanging out of our own.

I certainly am in no position to feel myself superior to Terry or anybody else on this board. My wife keeps my ego deflated on a regular basis. She tells me that is her job and mission in life.

[firefuzz]

This forum has lost many good members because of the juvenile, arrogant, pickiness of some of it's members. They have no respect for their elders or betters.
Joe

Joe, I'm sorry but here you've stepped on it. I need you to explain to me how anyone here is any better than anyone else. Someone may have a better or different skill set or knowledge base than others but that doesn't mean they're better than anyone. I don't consider myself to be any better or lesser than anyone and won't tolerate myself or anyone else being told so or treated as such.

I have respect for my elders to the point being polite, of calling them sir and Mr. when they desire and allow it, but other than that they earn it just like anyone else. I've never seen it written anywhere that age and experience are a license to be rude, condesending, or overbearing.

Respect is only respect if it's a two-way street, if it only goes one way it's called servitude, not respect. I certainly respect Terry's knowledge, but not his attitude in a lot, not all, areas. In most of the scrapes I've wittnessed here he's been the antagonist not the other person, but I haven't been here that long.

My final post on this thead.

Rob

[gamekeeper]

It's my opinion that Terry is not only a great fund of knowledge but he also has a sense of humor that really cracks me up.
I sincerely hope he continues to POST...

[Blaine]

I don't understand, I truly don't, why some of you guys can't resist the temptation to be critical of somebody else. If you don't like somebody, just ignore and/or avoid them.

It is one thing to disagree with anothers opinion, and quite another thing to assail the personality of another person. I guess it has to do with the ability to see the speck of dust in another person's eye, while being unable to see the telephone pole hanging out of our own.

I certainly am in no position to feel myself superior to Terry or anybody else on this board. My wife keeps my ego deflated on a regular basis. She tells me that is her job and mission in life.

Unless they are a DamnYankee (I'm sorry, I could not resist )

[Charles]

Firefuzz..

This respect being a two way street has me scratching my head. In our attitudes toward others, I don't think things are two way. I don't think we are to be a mirror of the other persons conduct. Rather, we are to do the right thing, even if it didn't come to us in the first place.

I see in your bottom tag, you are proud to be a Christian. That is a wonderul thing. But, if I understand Jesus right, we are not supposed to respond to others in kind, but with love. We don't give back what we receive, but give what we would like to receive.

You are of course correct that one person is not better than another in the sense of having more intrinsic worth. The ground at the foot of the cross is level. But, I had better stop lest I start to preach and if i did that, I would feel honor bound to take up a collection.

[Charles]

Tubby... I had that coming!

[edwardyoung]

I don't have anything meaningful to add(so I probably shouldn't); but if you are someone who thinks that someone who types in all caps is deserving of correction or ridicule, then you have a much bigger problem than the person who types in all caps. Go back to Facebook and talk about what you're going to wear tomorrow.

[Noah Zark]

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

The problem here http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=29119 that has cropped up many times and been discussed many times is that Terry takes the initiative to go after people who are new for breaking his rules that they don't know about and are not the rules of the forum when the clear dictum as stated above is what they have read. It is he that violates the politeness. Now if you want to ignore that I guess you can for whatever reason you can but it is a clear fact. I have never had a problem with him personally and understand that he is very nice in person. I certainly don't think - have you had one of these and what do you think of it - is unreasonable or deserves being berated. It is merely and open ended question, certainly a style of investigation of a subject.

I have been waiting for him to surface as I know where there is a SA that he expressed interest in and had no knowledge of this event until now.

His knowledge is a separate subject from his behavior and to me one does not justify the other.

+1.

I have nothing but respect for Terry's experience and knowledge, but I share the above perception/opinion of Terry's behavior. I'm halfway to 112 and as more time goes by I feel an obligation to pass on what I've learned. You can't attract pupils with a cranky, abrupt demeanor. "It is often not what is said, so much as how it is said."

As the forum header states, "This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely." In my opinion, this is overwhelmingly true -- for the vast majority of members. I like it here, I really like the generally respectful atmosphere. However, after reading in real time that particular thread that's quoted above as it unfolded, it is my perception that expectations apply to the majority and not a few. So I took a self-imposed break and didn't post much for a while and did some thinking. I concluded that the problem "is not in my set," as members here who are old enough to remember 1950s and 60s TV understand what that means.

I'm sorry if my perceptions are interpreted as a disappointing example of ignorant intolerance. That is certainly not the intent. I view my position as an advocate for those who have been treated in an ill-tempered manner -- victims of impoliteness. I respect Terry's experience and knowledge, and have nothing against him personally. It's a question of the behavior. I see the overwhelming majority of members here "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Terry is an exception in that regard, and it seems to be OK because it's Terry.

I had to get this off my chest. That's the last I will say on the subject, ever. I said it, and nothing bears repeating. If it's just me and Old Savage in the minority opinion, that's fine. I'm satisfied knowing it's just not me alone.

Edit to add: Ask yourselves -- If someone new and unknown joined and posted in the same abrupt, impolite "tell it like I see it" manner, how would that poster be received here?

Noah

[Booger Bill]

I am not much of a regular here as elsewhere. I am comeing up on 70 myself and also been highly interested in guns and studyied them since my first memories. I read the thread in question and I also noticed terrys brash answers before. He seems to think he has a lock on gun knowledge over others and maybe he does on many. The thing is others have been studying other things while terry was studying guns. Odds are very high that those same people have a wealth of knowledge in specialised fields that I, you or terry know knothing about! The cap lock doesnt bother me in the least either.
In my view the way I see the matter, not that anyone else cares what I think, is the fact that while terry can dish it out, he cant take it! Thats very obvious with his absence.
My advice terry, is get over it!

[Blaine]

Any and all of this thread content is prolly true...but, why needlessly bring it up and hurt feelings among friends? I sort of wish this thread would disappear.

[J Miller]

Any and all of this thread content is prolly true...but, why needlessly bring it up and hurt feelings among friends? I sort of wish this thread would disappear.

Blaine,
So do I. I even tagged it and asked Hobie to lock it down before it got out of hand, but he hasn't.
Maybe if you ask him, I don't think he likes me any more.

Joe

[Nath]

Terry touched a nerve with me once but in no time I got a PM from him, it was the sweetest kindest PM I ever got from anyone. If I had not got that PM it would not change how I feel now and that is that I would mis his contributions here.

Every board needs an old grump but I ain't old enough yet!

Nath.

[shooter]

I'm probably one of the youngest guys here at almost 28. I have been raised to respect everyone until they show they don't deserve it, but moreover to respect my elders. Maybe that's why I'm accepting of Terry's responses. He reminds me of some of the older generation in my family. They had to work hard for everything, and sometimes are not very forthcoming with information they know. They would rather teach you how to learn it for yourself. As the old saying goes "Give a man a fish..........Teach a man to fish......" I am not excusing or condoning the behavior of anyone on here, myself included. I have asked some pretty beginner questions on here even though I have been around guns all my life. I have grown up in the age of information, and for the most part expect that information to come quickly. It is a fault of my generation. I have been on the receiving end of a couple of Terry's responses, but for the most part just took them for what they were and tried to learn from them. My skin is thick enough that I don't generally let someone's words affect me that much.

FWIW, I post on another board that John Taffin frequents. I have the utmost respect for that man, also, but he responds to questions much in the same manner as Terry, and he types in ALL CAPS! IMO, it's just something you either ignore or learn to live with. Just take the info that's there and ignore the rest, or ignore the whole thing. I had reservations on posting on this topic, but that's what I have to say and I'll leave it at that.

[Mich Hunter]

I'm probably one of the youngest guys here at almost 28. I have been raised to respect everyone until they show they don't deserve it, but moreover to respect my elders. Maybe that's why I'm accepting of Terry's responses. He reminds me of some of the older generation in my family. They had to work hard for everything, and sometimes are not very forthcoming with information they know. They would rather teach you how to learn it for yourself. As the old saying goes "Give a man a fish..........Teach a man to fish......" I am not excusing or condoning the behavior of anyone on here, myself included. I have asked some pretty beginner questions on here even though I have been around guns all my life. I have grown up in the age of information, and for the most part expect that information to come quickly. It is a fault of my generation. I have been on the receiving end of a couple of Terry's responses, but for the most part just took them for what they were and tried to learn from them. My skin is thick enough that I don't generally let someone's words affect me that much.

FWIW, I post on another board that John Taffin frequents. I have the utmost respect for that man, also, but he responds to questions much in the same manner as Terry, and he types in ALL CAPS! IMO, it's just something you either ignore or learn to live with. Just take the info that's there and ignore the rest, or ignore the whole thing. I had reservations on posting on this topic, but that's what I have to say and I'll leave it at that.

Well said. I too wish this thread would go away as I have alot of respect for the man. I have been to the mans home on several occasions and have shared many cups of coffee and a few glasses of beer with him while discussing the sport we both love. 99% of the poeple here have never met or spoke with him outside of here. I don't take kindly to people bashing the man over words on an internet forum. Some folks tend to spew stuff from their pie holes over the net and would not have the stones to do it in person. Mr. Murbach walks the walk incase anyone didn't know. He is also is a self educated man who reads more than I probably ever will. His main point in most cases is to take the darn initiative on your own to learn something. Crack a book once in awhile. But most everyone missed that because there are far too many thin skinned people these days that are more worried about their personal feelings. Get over yourselves. He hasn't been hard on anyone. He pulls no punches when asked a question. Thats his own style and the way he lives. That is also why alot of folks enjoy his writing.

For the noob that stated he was kicked off other forums for being this way, you are completly wrong and uneducated on the subject. He was defending a close friends honor from another jack$@# who had no clue who he was. I don't know about you but that is the type of man I want around. But, we loose sight of that because he types with all caps?? This is turning into a sewing circle of old maids. RANT OVER

[AJMD429]

Every board needs an old grump but I ain't old enough yet!

[Griff]

deleted as not relavent, except for:

Last thought, "Hobie, where's that IGNORE button?"

[Don McDowell]

Well I'm just in hopes that Terry hasn't gone the way of many others from the past. OD,Redcoat, Al Anderson, Crazy Horse, Scott T...
Lots of lost knowledge all on account of a few folks that......

[CEMENTHEAD]

Any and all of this thread content is prolly true...but, why needlessly bring it up and hurt feelings among friends? I sort of wish this thread would disappear.

+1