I guess you never know what a bullet will do

[Dave]

For many years I have used Sierra ProHunter 170 grainers in my 30-30. I finally settled on 32.0 of Varget after using other powders. That load shoots well out of every gun I ever tried it in.

A couple weeks ago I was trying to get a doe and had one come in behing me. By the time I was able to ease around and get fixed she was quartering away. I shot her at the back of the ribs aiming at the offside shoulder. She ran. I went to the spot where she was standing when I shot her. No blood, no nothing. I went to the spot I last saw her. No blood, no nothing. I wasn't liking that but eased down the way she probably went following the path of least resistance. I found her about 50 yards away. She didn't really bleed a drop. The round went in and came out just behind the far shoulder. I don't know if I would have found her if she made it to thick stuff.

Last weekend I was doe hunting and a big doe turned sideways to me in a field at about 85 yards. I laid a round in right behing her shoulder. She ran. I cranked another round at her. She didn't run stong but wasn't running out of steam when she hit the woods either. I figured she would be right inside the woodline.

I went to where she had been standing. No blood, no nothing. I walked her trail to the woodline. Nothing. I eased into the woods. No deer, no blood. Wow. I ease around and find a pin head drop of blood. After that the blood started getting better and I never lost the trail. I found her about 50 yards into the woods.

That round entered her text book behind the shoulder and should have punched right through leaving big blood. Instead it took some kind of crazy bounce and exited behing her off side hip. I don't know how that happened.

My buddy thinks I got a bad box of bullets and I'm not getting expansion. I don't know. I have never had one of those rounds not punch straight through a deer and the first one this year did. I don't know what to think.

[fisheadgib]

I've had that happen with my .243 and a very similar hit and what I believe caused it was all the fat built up behind the shoulder and on the haunches. The deer where I hunt are very well fed between feeders in summer, food plots, and acorns and they have more fat on them than any other place I've ever hunted. Two years ago I hit a nine point behind the shoulder that made the treeline about 45 yds away and I found another 50 yds into the woods. The round traveled diagonally through the length of the animal and exited through the left hind quarter. I never found the first drop of blood on the ground. In fact, there was about half a gallon of blood pooled up in the fatty tissue around the entrance wound and not a drop of it ever leaked out. The reason I think it's the fat is that there are a lot of hogs around southern Alabama and it's common to hit a hog and never find any blood trail. Even when it's hit with a broadhead.

[86er]

I've had some similar experiences with 30-30 and the recent story I posted about with the 7mm-08. On two deer that I hit with Hornday LeverEvolution ammo they both ran and no blood came out until they went just over 100 yards. Luckily I saw where they went into thick stuff and found the blood there. After several hundred yards of blood trail we lost the deer until the next day. When they were found both were ruined. One was a high double lung shot. The other was one lung and nicked the liver. One exited and one didnt. On the hog hunt in LA we just did I shot the boar right in the middle of the ribs with a 170 gr Speer. It did not exit yet I didn't find it. The hog went over 100 yds with exactly one drop of blood on a leaf. It was still alive when we found it. On this most recent deer with the 7mm-08, the 140 Accubond went in just in front of the shoulder, between the shoulder and neck. It cut the heart and both lungs and stopped on the opposite leg. There was not one drop of blood on the deer at all whatsoever. It ran 100 yards or more but luckily it died right at the edge of thick cover and we found it quickly. The bullet only weighed 56.6 grains but it mushroomed and held together. At the close range it looks like all the lead on the mushroom smeared off. Mike Rintoul always says "A bullet's gonna do what a bullet's gonna do". Frankly, the bullets are killing the game and working within the design parameters. Unfortunately the only solution is to use a heavier, faster and/or wider diameter bullet. For example: the 7mm Rem Mag with 160gr Accubonds has always exited deer no matter how far or what shot placement. This is over dozens of deer. The 140 gr Accubond at 7mm-08 velocity has been 50/50 on exiting and leaving heavy blood trails. The 260 grain softpoint in 45 Colt stayed in many hogs and some deer. Switched to a 300 gr hardcast or A-Frame and started getting consistent exits with heavy blood trails. I don't think you're doing anything wrong at all. Maybe try the high shoulder shot to see if it puts them down quicker than the behind-the-leg shot.

[TedH]

Speaking of Accubonds, I used to think highly of them, that is till I actually used them on game. I've only killed two animals with them, one Idaho black bear, and one whitetail. Both with my 338 Win. They both had huge entrance wounds, much larger than the exits, which makes me believe they are very rapidly expanding like the Ballistic Tips do. They both exited the animals, but we're talking about a 225 gr. bullet and under 200 pound animals. I had originally loaded them as my elk load, but now I don't think I would use them on such a large animal. I don't think the weight retention is there.

[Sarge]

I shoot the center of the shoulder about a third to half way up. Haven't lost a deer so hit and the few that weren't DRT left a 20-30 yard blood trail that Stevie Wonder could have followed.

[Dave]

I shoot the center of the shoulder about a third to half way up. Haven't lost a deer so hit and the few that weren't DRT left a 20-30 yard blood trail that Stevie Wonder could have followed.

I may try that. I always try to miss the shoulder so I don't blow my meat but losing a shoulder isn't the end of the world. I like the neck shot up close so I don't blow anything. What I like to see is a double lung shot deer take two or three leaps, start losing steam, drunk walk a second and fall within sight. Of course the neck shot puts them down like yanking a rug out from under them.

[shooter444002]

I like to shoot them through the middle of both shoulders, you are not loosing much in the shoulders and with the number of mld tags we have can shoot plenty more meat. in 30/30 I have always had dramatic wounds with 150gr bullets especially when shot through the shoulers.

On the 7mm08 I have never stopped a bullet in a deer shooting 140gr rem or handloaded hornady spirepoints and my daughter broke both shoulders on a 6x6 bull elk and exited with the hornady 139gr gmx. She usually shoots around 10 deer a year with this rifle so its not a small sample of bullets either. Also had good exits and blood trail with rem 140gr managed recoil.

[Pisgah]

The title of your post says it all -- there really is no way to tell what the bullet will do. Every time you fire a certain bullet at a game animal is another trial in an ongoing experiment, and even after years and dozens/hundreds/thousands of shots the best you'll ever be able to do is make a SWAG at how a bullet will perform. If you are paying attention your odds will get better, but they'll never be a sure thing.

I have shot exactly 4 deer with my current 6.5 BRM load. All were one-shot kills. All hit where they were intended to be hit. Three went down either in their tracks or no more than two yards from the spot. The fourth ran about 40 yards before piling up. Ranges were 25, 60, 85 and 140 yards. So far, this tells me that the load is up to the job when I am , under conditions pretty typical in this area; but how it accomplishes the job from one shot to another is going to vary.

Just a PS not necessarily apropos of anything, but if pressed I would have to say that a 150 gr. .30-30 through the ribcage is about the surest, safest "down right there" bet on a whitetail deer.

[Hobie]

I shoot the center of the shoulder about a third to half way up. Haven't lost a deer so hit and the few that weren't DRT left a 20-30 yard blood trail that Stevie Wonder could have followed.

In some of the places where I hunt you need a mobility kill as much as and quicker than for them to quit breathing. The bullet has to go through one shoulder or another or maybe a hip and a shoulder. Why? Because you absolutely can't get permission to cross the fence even to collect a deer 10 feet on the other side. Some land owners are like that. You have to live with it.

[Old Time Hunter]

You fellers go looking for your deer right after shoot'n them? I've always had a rule of thumb to be as quiet and still as an opossum for about twenty minutes, then move very slowly ten yards or so off the direction it went, look'n under trees, brush, or in low spots...knock on wood, but never lost one, whether hit in the foot or ear, they tend to lay down if they have been scratched. As far as the bullet goes, shot a little fork buck once with a .300 Win Mag (180 gr SPBT) from 'bout 40 yards away and watched that thing skiddadle down across a field 250 yards long, waited my twenty minutes and followed over, not one drop of blood. Located him fifty yards into a swamp resting under a tree, put him down with a shot to the head with my .44Mag pistol (that Ruger M77 is not comfortable carry gun!). That .300WM went clear thru, like hitting a cardboard box, never mushroomed from what I could tell, knicked both lungs on top and missed the heart by millimeters....no blood. Shot a good sized Moose once with a .30-30 (170 gr Remmingtons) from 'bout 90 to 100 yards away. He was walking towards me and must of caught a wiff, so I shot him straight away in the chest, He charged directly at me, but crumpled up ten yards in front of me (gent I was with said that the Moose probably didn't even know I was there 'cause they don't see all to well). Scared the living feces out of me though. That 170 gr FP went through the sternum, carried all they way to the right rear thigh, flat has a fifty cent piece...gut'n that thing was a mess! So, as the post says, guess you never know what a bullet will do.

[olyinaz]

Indeed. Talk to some of us veterans about what we've seen military ball ammo do. Some pretty bizarre stuff...

Oly

[336A]

I've always held the opinion that the 150gr bullet from a .30 WCF was better than the 170gr bullets for deer sized game as long as the rifle shot them reasonably well. I'm very fortunate in that my Marlin 336 shoots 150gr and 160gr Hornady LE very well and 170gr Win PP shoot about 1.5"-1.75" for me at 100yd. I like the 150's because they shoot slightly faster and flatter out to 200yd and I feel that they have a better tendency to expand out to 200yd.

I've shot the majority of my deer with the 150gr Federal Fusion from 35yd out to 140yd, all shots were pass throughs and left very good blood trails. I shot one doe at 70yd with the Hornady LE when they became available. The spore and blood left on the birch tress and vegitation behind that doe was very impressive, it was everywhere in a dramatic V pattern.

Up until T.R. posted about a his red stag hunt along with a pic of a recovered 170gr Win PP bullet my view on the 170gr bullets were speculative at best. However when I read his post and looked at the recovered bullet it reenforced my opinion. My opinion was further strengthened after reading and seeing how little the Speer 170gr bullet expanded in the post that 86er wrote on the .30-30 and penetration. So for these reasons I ffel that the 150gr bullets are better suited for deer sized game.

Here is a link to the red stag that T.R. shot along with pics.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 592.0.html

[RSY]

That round entered her text book behind the shoulder and should have punched right through leaving big blood. Instead it took some kind of crazy bounce and exited behind her off side hip. I don't know how that happened.

That sounds exactly like a shot I took with my .270 last year with my favorite bullet, the 140-gr. Hornady InterLock. You are not alone.