OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

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Ysabel Kid
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OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Ysabel Kid »

As I posted here several months ago, I've decided to take the plunge and go through the process - long with some expense - of becoming a legal owner of a suppressor. I had the opportunity to fire a suppressed gun earlier this year and it was addictive. Purchased a suppressor a couple months back, got the pile of paperwork, and filled it all out - because I can't take possession of it until the paperwork clears. I took the application to sheriff's HQ in my county - about 40 minutes from my house - as he is the "chief law enforcement officer" for the jurisdiction I live in. Trouble was scheduling a meeting given my travel schedule; ended up taking a month just to do that.

Well. I show up three weeks ago at the appointed time and - he wasn't there. To make matters worse, the sheriff's office didn't do fingerprinting on Fridays (a point they neglected to tell me after I asked if they could do it while I was in for my appointment with the sheriff). A complete bust. I left the paperwork, asked his secretary to have him call me to ask me any questions, and reschedule a meeting at his convenience. Then went back to my local city police department (I live just outside the city limits), and fortunately they did the finger-printing for a small fee.

No word from the sheriff for a couple weeks, so I called his office Monday.

He wasn't available, so I left another message. Got a call back 3 minutes later from a Major in the department. Nice fellow - and I could tell right away he was uncomfortable calling me. Sure enough - "nothing to do with me" he said, "but the sheriff won't sign off on any requests for silencers".

We'll, I figured that he was a nice guy and just got stuck making the call because his worthless thing boss was too much of a coward to meet with me or call me and deny me to my face. No point in yelling at the messenger - or telling him it was a "suppressor" and that he (or the sheriff) had seen too many movies - or that I really didn't need his permission. Yes, the go-around is forming a trust, which is what I now have to do. This does not require the "chief law enforcement" officer's permission.

What a PITA - but there are few things I detest more in life than some pointy-head bureaucrat telling me what I can and can not do, so now come heck-or-high water, I'm going to do this!

Rant off... :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by TedH »

Go get 'em Jay! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by pwl44m »

I just went online and filled out forms for a Curio & Relic FFL, We will see what happens there. I too am out of city limits so the Sheriff is the CLEO. and from what I understand HE dont like Guns.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Rusty »

My local class III dealer told me that the easiest way to do this legally is to form a trust with yourself as the trustee. As the head of the trust you can then do the purchasing and the local law never has to sign off. There are programs online to form the trust for about $50.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by FWiedner »

Ysabel Kid wrote: ... there are few things I detest more in life than some pointy-head bureaucrat telling me what I can and can not do, so now come heck-or-high water, I'm going to do this!
But, he's a public servant who's seen it all, a hero who puts his life on the line every day in the mean streets, a wise elder being who knows what's best for you and the community...

:lol:


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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by claybob86 »

...the right to keep and bear arms without suppressors shall not be infringed... It says that, right? :twisted:
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by gamekeeper »

Jay, after a few more encounters like that you'll be fully qualified to live in jolly old England. :roll:
I'm not suggesting that's an option but at least we can buy a suppressor without much ado.
Suppressors that fit both air rifles and .22 rimfires can be bought over the counter by anyone if you only want it for an air rifle.
Suppressors for firearms only, have to be listed on your firearm certificate and permission is never refused.

GK jr and I both have them but don't like using mine.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Old Ironsights »

game keeper wrote:Jay, after a few more encounters like that you'll be fully qualified to live in jolly old England. :roll:
I'm not suggesting that's an option but at least we can buy a suppressor without much ado.
Suppressors that fit both air rifles and .22 rimfires can be bought over the counter by anyone if you only want it for an air rifle.
Suppressors for firearms only, have to be listed on your firearm certificate and permission is never refused.

GK jr and I both have them but don't like using mine.
Yah. Funny that. IIRC owning a suppressor is almost a requirement in Finland. I'm not sure what annoys the US Goob more about suppressors - bad movie memories of assasians or that Fishy Game Cops can't tell when someone might be shooting "out of season". :roll:
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by SteveR »

pwl44m wrote:I just went online and filled out forms for a Curio & Relic FFL, We will see what happens there. I too am out of city limits so the Sheriff is the CLEO. and from what I understand HE dont like Guns.
He doesn't have a say in the matter really, you just have to file with the office. You will leave a copy of the C&R with the CLEO i.e. Sheriff.

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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by mklwhite »

SteveR wrote:
pwl44m wrote:I just went online and filled out forms for a Curio & Relic FFL, We will see what happens there. I too am out of city limits so the Sheriff is the CLEO. and from what I understand HE dont like Guns.
He doesn't have a say in the matter really, you just have to file with the office. You will leave a copy of the C&R with the CLEO i.e. Sheriff.

Steve
+1. That is all I did. No problems.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Ysabel Kid »

mklwhite wrote:
SteveR wrote:
pwl44m wrote:I just went online and filled out forms for a Curio & Relic FFL, We will see what happens there. I too am out of city limits so the Sheriff is the CLEO. and from what I understand HE dont like Guns.
He doesn't have a say in the matter really, you just have to file with the office. You will leave a copy of the C&R with the CLEO i.e. Sheriff.

Steve
+1. That is all I did. No problems.
+2 - In fact, I just renewed my C&R (can't believe it's been 3 years!). CLEO had nothing to say - which was good for me, given his track record!!! :shock:
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Ysabel Kid »

game keeper wrote:Jay, after a few more encounters like that you'll be fully qualified to live in jolly old England. :roll:
I'm not suggesting that's an option but at least we can buy a suppressor without much ado.
Suppressors that fit both air rifles and .22 rimfires can be bought over the counter by anyone if you only want it for an air rifle.
Suppressors for firearms only, have to be listed on your firearm certificate and permission is never refused.

GK jr and I both have them but don't like using mine.
Power exercised arbitrarily drives me bonkers. I don't think I could handle a week in the UK John! This is the only headache I've run into here, concerning firearms, and at least I have a work around!
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Old Ironsights wrote:
game keeper wrote:Jay, after a few more encounters like that you'll be fully qualified to live in jolly old England. :roll:
I'm not suggesting that's an option but at least we can buy a suppressor without much ado.
Suppressors that fit both air rifles and .22 rimfires can be bought over the counter by anyone if you only want it for an air rifle.
Suppressors for firearms only, have to be listed on your firearm certificate and permission is never refused.

GK jr and I both have them but don't like using mine.
Yah. Funny that. IIRC owning a suppressor is almost a requirement in Finland. I'm not sure what annoys the US Goob more about suppressors - bad movie memories of assasians or that Fishy Game Cops can't tell when someone might be shooting "out of season". :roll:
Heck, I think its just being curteous.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with poaching. One of the questions on the federal form was if I held a hunting license...
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by gamekeeper »

Ysabel Kid wrote: Power exercised arbitrarily drives me bonkers. I don't think I could handle a week in the UK John! This is the only headache I've run into here, concerning firearms, and at least I have a work around!
Jay, if you came over here with your entire gun collection they would most likely throw you in the Tower! :shock: :lol:
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by GregT »

I live in Sawyer County, Wisconsin. This is a rather remote and sparsely settled county in the NW part of the state. This past election, we got rid of a sheriff very much like the one that you have described here. This sheriff actually got rid of himself by blatting off his big mouth 7 years ago about not doing any paperwork for the proposed concealed carry law that was being worked on in 2003. Unfortunately, this proposed law was vetoed by our governor in 2003 and again in 2005. We remain one of two states without a CCW law. (This is rapidly changing and by the end of January, with our new governor and Legislature, we WILL finally have our own CCW). Anyway, when it came time to vote, many of us remembered what the sheriff had said and he got his butt beat by almost 1000 votes in the primary. Then the jerk tried a write-in and got beat again! We have a good man in office come January and he will also be CCW positive. The solution to your problem, in a long run, is to un-elect him!
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by olyinaz »

GregT wrote:I live in Sawyer County, Wisconsin. This is a rather remote and sparsely settled county in the NW part of the state. This past election, we got rid of a sheriff very much like the one that you have described here. This sheriff actually got rid of himself by blatting off his big mouth 7 years ago about not doing any paperwork for the proposed concealed carry law that was being worked on in 2003. Unfortunately, this proposed law was vetoed by our governor in 2003 and again in 2005. We remain one of two states without a CCW law. (This is rapidly changing and by the end of January, with our new governor and Legislature, we WILL finally have our own CCW). Anyway, when it came time to vote, many of us remembered what the sheriff had said and he got his butt beat by almost 1000 votes in the primary. Then the jerk tried a write-in and got beat again! We have a good man in office come January and he will also be CCW positive. The solution to your problem, in a long run, is to un-elect him!
GregT
Right on and EXCELLENT news about Wisconsin! Grew up in Minny close to the Sconny border and it usually pains me to read about my two favorite states-outside-Arizona but that was some good news for a change.

Sorry to hear about your runaround YK, hang in there.

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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Rusty »

If you go the trust route the local law never even see your paperwork. It goes straight to ATF.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Sixgun »

Kid,
Stay with it bro! Just think about all the taxes the feds steal from your paycheck and they get to do whatever they want with it. I believe your sheriff is told by higher ups to "cause lots of ag" to applicants of class 3 goodies.

Short story--In 1977, I went to the State police to have a class 3 form signed. I wanted to buy a WW 2 Thompson. At that time the going price was $750 for a nice one. Thats all I heard was blah, blah, blah and they were not going to sign it. I walked out with my head low, believing everything they said.

At 23, I was inexperienced. Thats all I had to do was to have a lawyer write them a letter. Today, that Thompson is 15 g's. ------------Sixgun
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by kimwcook »

Sometimes the guys at the top forget why they're there, to SERVE and PROTECT their constituents. Some should never get there, but they get backing and lo and behold they get elected.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by AJMD429 »

Rusty wrote:If you go the trust route the local law never even see your paperwork. It goes straight to ATF.
I realize that this is a "leverguns" forum, but YK dutifully marked this topic "OT", so. . .

To Rusty, YK, and any others with experience in this area, MORE INFORMATION would be really helpful. Anyone here who has set up such a trust please post their experiences and so on!

I'm about where YK is, and would like to know the smoothest process.

I understand that if you do NOT have a 'trust', that you cannot even let your wife or other family member be even temporarily "in possession" of the item, whereas if you do the 'trust' thing, they can all be somehow listed as authorized to possess the item. It may seem silly, but something as trivial as a flat tire en route to the range, leaving your wife in the vehicle (with the dreaded Class-III item) while you walked to the nearest service station, would be a 'violation'.

Anyway, anyone with more info on the application process, in particular the 'trust' route, please enlighten those of us ready to take the plunge.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by deerwhacker444 »

I'm unfamiliar with the "trust" route. Can somebody please explain or post a link...?
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by kimwcook »

I second Doc's request for more information on the trust issue. I've never heard of it.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Old No7 »

game keeper wrote:"Jay, if you came over here with your entire gun collection they would most likely throw you in the Tower!" :shock: :lol:
LOL! Here's Jay's "resting place" in the Tower...
London 2009 (356) (Small).jpg
And the "lovely view" of the outside world he'll have...
London 2009 (355) (Small).jpg
...and here's his Guard!
London 2009 (342) (Small).jpg
...Actually, that's Old No7 Jr... (Or is it "Not So Old No2.5"???)

Keep after 'em Jay!!! :wink:

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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by slimster »

Here, Jay, this might be some helpful info for you. http://www.cruffler.com/legal-June-00.html I also have an old "Small Arms Review" issue around here somewhere with a great article in it about setting up a Trust specifically for title 2 weapons. I have no way to scan it, but if you want to, you can send me your snail mail addy., and I can mail it to you. Edited to add this link with lots of firearms trust info: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/how-to-pu ... ss-3-fire/
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Ysabel Kid »

slimster wrote:Here, Jay, this might be some helpful info for you. http://www.cruffler.com/legal-June-00.html I also have an old "Small Arms Review" issue around here somewhere with a great article in it about setting up a Trust specifically for title 2 weapons. I have no way to scan it, but if you want to, you can send me your snail mail addy., and I can mail it to you. Edited to add this link with lots of firearms trust info: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/how-to-pu ... ss-3-fire/
Thanks for the links slimster! Digging into the paperwork is going to be one of the things I do over the holidays. This will save me time.

AJ - my understanding is the same as yours. The sheriff probably did me a favor in the long run, as a trust is better off. When Y2K comes of age, I'll name him as a trustee, and then when I eventually pass on, he'll already be in legal possession of it.
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Noah Zark »

Jay:

I had the same problem with the former sheriff, who wouldn't sign off on a Form 4 for a submachine gun, saying that "in PA, only FFLs can own MGs." THEN, he tells me "if you want an MG, just buy any gun magazine and answer any of the ads in the back on how to convert a semi-auto to full auto."

Unbelievable.

So I left his office and went upstairs to the DAs office. I know the DA personally, and he listened to my explain the form and what I needed (him to attest that I am not a felon) and said, "This is a first for me. I learned something today." And he signed it.

FACT: The Sheriff may be the CLEO, but a county DA is just as good for a Form 4 or Form 1 signoff. My DA has signed off on two of each forms over the past four years.

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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by fordwannabe »

Good luck to all in this endevour. Just remember once you clear local law enforcement then you get to send all that lovely paperwork(which you will have made several copies of, and keep a record of the MO or check number) off to the ATF which are in absolutely no hurry to get it back to you. I was lucky the county Sheriff(whose father and brother own a sporting goods store I was a very good customer of) signed no problems but the ATF check cleared the bank on May 14th and the gun store (which had my paid for supressor) got the letter approx. October 27th, and the gunshop owner told me I did real well sometimes it takes "a long time". AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH. You would think with the availability of home machining tools and the information on the internet, the ,I'll use the word Dingbats( but I'm really thinking something else that starts with a D and ends with two S'S) would make it easier to get through the red tape so you don't just go make one yourself. I once asked the sheriff, why he pretty much granted CCW licenses and he said, the guys who apply and go throught the Bravo Sierra aren't the guys I have to worry about. Dang sometimes people really do think. But he is a good guy all around. Tom
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Re: OT - Blasted PITA sheriff!

Post by Rusty »

Sorry to leave you guys hanging here this topic. I started talking to my local class III dealer, he is the one that clued me in to this trust strategy in regards to the class III item. He told me I could find all the needed information online with the needed forms that could be filled in and printed off on the net. Something like legal zoom etc. When the trust is in place you can just go to the dealer and have him run everything through. I would find a dealer who knows the process so he can help you with any special requirements your state might have. When I was looking into it the cost for setting up the trust was about $55.
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