OT: Any Masons here?

[ScottT]

I frankly don't know if a priest or minister can properly avoid discussion of political topics and still remain relevant.

Politics is so closely entwined with everything we do and see and this may be part of the problem.

[Rebel1972]

Don't get me wrong,both priests are super nice guys. I just have a hard time seeing where they are coming from on this issue .

[Jayhawker]

cubrock,

OK, what's the difference between the Scottish Rite group and the Free & Accepted Masons?

[cubrock]

cubrock,

OK, what's the difference between the Scottish Rite group and the Free & Accepted Masons?

I'm not an expert on that matter. I am sure some of the Masons here can give you a better definition than I can. Scottish Rite is a level of Masonry above Free & Accepted. It is a sub-group of sorts, just like the Shriners. You have to be a Master F&A Mason to start in both of the other organizations. Beyond that, all I could offer you is speculation and hearsay.

We have a high-level Scottish Rite Mason in our church. Very nice man, but I've never asked him about Scottish Rite Masonry.

For the record, I'm a fence-sitter on Masonry. I don't feel the need to join it for fellowship, personal development, or doing good works. I can do those things through my church, my friendship with other men, and by myself. However, I don't begrudge a man who wants to join an organization like the Masons.

[cubrock]

I frankly don't know if a priest or minister can properly avoid discussion of political topics and still remain relevant.

Politics is so closely entwined with everything we do and see and this may be part of the problem.

ScottT,

I agree with you. However, there is a difference between addressing moral matters that are politicized (such as abortion, homosexual unions, etc.) and stumping from the pulpit for candidates or a party. That is the line I am drawing. Too many church organization overtly or covertly stump from the pulpit. I can't abide that. There might be some extreme exception for me, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

Also, I think it is appropriate to address praying for/supporting our leaders and troops from the pulpit. The Apostle Paul directly addressed matters such as this nearly 2,000 years ago.

[ScottT]

The freedom of speech that you have to express your views from the pulpit is the same freedom that candidates have to express themselves at a rally.

If the ideas resonate with the crowd, they may take root, but nobody need sit and listen to anything they don't want to hear.

If a preacher I am listening to goes off the deep end, I get up and leave. I have actually done this on more than one occasion. If a politician does so, same thing. Nobody can restrict my ability to walk out.

I think preachers who get into supporting candidates risk this sort of thing, but it is not new. How many speeches did you see President Clinton give before various churches? Providing him the pulpit is an endorsement.

I don't think we can or should separate politics from religion, as long as we keep the Establishment Clause in mind.

I personally will not vote for a candidate that I believe is an immoral man, because I know that an immoral man has a harder time resisting temptation. But I don't tell other folks how to make up their minds.

A leader leads, and the leader of a church flock does the same.

[Charles]

I can't speak for other Preachers, but in my 37 years as a United Methodist Preacher, I have never preached a single political sermon or a sermon on current social issues. I don't do such things in the church newsletter, web site or other forums where I represent Christ by viture of my office.

I have plenty of opinions on such matters and am not shy about expressing them out of the pulpit. Nobody has to wonder where I am at on these issues. I just don'e use my office to express them. I express them as a citizen and a person and not as "The Pastor". I don't wrap myself in the mantle of "clergy" to give additional weight to my notions.

My folks are pretty well adept at seperating Charles from The Rev. Dr. Graff.

But the pulpit is a place for the Good News and not good views. It is not a place to ride personal politcal or social hobby horses.

[cubrock]

The freedom of speech that you have to express your views from the pulpit is the same freedom that candidates have to express themselves at a rally.

If the ideas resonate with the crowd, they may take root, but nobody need sit and listen to anything they don't want to hear.

If a preacher I am listening to goes off the deep end, I get up and leave. I have actually done this on more than one occasion. If a politician does so, same thing. Nobody can restrict my ability to walk out.

I think preachers who get into supporting candidates risk this sort of thing, but it is not new. How many speeches did you see President Clinton give before various churches? Providing him the pulpit is an endorsement.

I don't think we can or should separate politics from religion, as long as we keep the Establishment Clause in mind.

I personally will not vote for a candidate that I believe is an immoral man, because I know that an immoral man has a harder time resisting temptation. But I don't tell other folks how to make up their minds.

A leader leads, and the leader of a church flock does the same.

Again, you get no disagreement with me on this, Scott. Perhaps the best way to express it is that I am careful, especially in the pulpit, to watch that my views don't become stumbling blocks for someone, especially someone young in their faith. That doesn't mean I never take a stand, but Paul admonished us to not let our freedom as believers cause others, whose faith isn't as strong, to stumble. That applies to all areas of life. For instance, I enjoy a good beer or scotch now and again, but I won't drink in front of many of my friends and acquaintances who believe it is wrong. It serves no good purpose.

[MikeS.]

cubrock,

OK, what's the difference between the Scottish Rite group and the Free & Accepted Masons?

Jayhawker, Cubrock answered your ? as well as I can. I can add a bit more. To be a full fledged Mason you have to be a 3rd degree. The 3rd is as far as you have to go. After the 3rd you can go to the York Rite or Scottish Rite, MAYBE both, I'm too new to know for sure.

With these 2 affiliated groups you get higher degrees. I think a Shriner is a 33* Mason, York Rite has different degree numbering then Scottish Rite. Scottish Rite starts at 4th degree and goes through 32*

Also the U.S.A is split between Free & Accepted Masons and Ancient Free & Accepted Masons. Again I don't completely understand the differences between the two enough to explain them here.

There is another group that came about during segregation and the dark days of slavery. They are the Prince Hall Masons. They are made up of Non Whites for the most part, but they do freely accept whites.

To my Brothers here, I start learning the obligation tonight. I've made it into the Lodge. A good place to be.

[Barcelona Rick]

Welcome to the Blue Lodge Brother. I am a sixth generation Ancient Free and Accepted Mason. I served my Lodge as WM in '94-'95 and as DDGM in 2002. I am also a 32 Degree Scottish Rite Mason, a York Rite Mason, a Shriner, a member of The Royal Order of Scotland and a member of the Eastern Star. I am a lifetime member of The Methodist/United Methodist Church and a Certified Lay Speaker. I will begin Certified Lay Minister School in February. I have found nothing in the Masonic Lodge which prevents or inhibits my service To Jesus Christ. I am first and foremost a Trinity Christian.

While Masonry is based on taking a good man and making him better it just as any other organizations has it's share of "Bad Apples". Masons for years have not asked for new members nor have Masons spoken in defense when confronted with unjust charges.

The highest honor a Mason will ever receive is that of being a Master Mason. All other related bodies/organizations are important if a man so chooses but are not greater than that of being a MM.

I am very proud of my membership, however, there is no greater calling in my life than my service to Jesus Christ, my family and my country.

Enjoy your membership and put into it what you feel comfortable doing.

jumbeaux

[ByronG]

No offense taken. I am a Catholic and I am a Mason.

That was an unfortunate chapter in Catholocism. Not that big a deal.

I have no ax to grind on either side of this discussion but it would seem that that unfortunate chapter continues to the present day, at least according to vatican spokesmen (as previously quoted) and Reid McInvale of the Texas Lodge of Research.

"While the apparent tolerance of American Catholics toward Masonry is encouraging, the Vatican and the U.S. Conference of Bishops have made determinative rulings by which American Catholics at large are expected to abide. The final nail in the coffin of any possible near term rapprochement between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry appears to have been a declaration published in the official Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, ".... The faithful who enroll in masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive holy communion.... In an audience... the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration..."42 Thus, the present pope is on record opposing Masonic membership for Catholics.

In subsequent editions of the newspaper the holding of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved by the pope, has been restated and substantiated. For those of a philosophical bent, the 11 March 1985, L'Osservatore Romano (English language edition) contains an article which argues that Masonry establishes a relativistic symbolic concept of morality unacceptable to Catholicism.43

Thus, and despite the Second Ecumenical Council, the hostile tenor of Roman Catholic Church pronouncements toward Masonry remains unabated, and official church attitudes and law are not meaningfully different from those of previous centuries. The atmosphere and tradition established by long dead European popes and Freemasons continues to haunt American Freemasons. By denying communion to Roman Catholics who are Masons, the church denies obedient Roman Catholics the opportunity to share in the brotherhood of Freemasonry, and Freemasons lose the opportunity to share fraternal bonds with many Roman Catholics. "

http://www.io.com/~janebm/churchlaw.html

[mav]

mklwhite,
I'm not offended by the fact that you compare the Catholic Church to the likes of Hitler or Mussolini, but I am saddened. Saddened by the scandal caused by some members of the Church. Yes the Catholic Church was regrettably entangled with the state at times. But one (or many) bad church officials doesn't mean the Church was or is bad anymore than one (or many) bad government officials mean the America is bad.
As far a loyalty goes most people have a hierarchy of loyalties, e.g. God, family, country. I don't know if you are a believer but I hope you don't think God is a oppressive regime.

[SteveR]

Mike,

(or any of the other Masons) I do have another question, I know you are new to the Masons, but how much time is needed like on a weekly basis? Does one need to go to meetings weekly or is it more a self paced type of organization?

Thanks,

Steve

[Griff]

Jumbeaux,
Welcome to the forum. I have found this topic to be enlightening and worth the time it took me to read it all. Way back in my youth, I was invited to consider becoming a Mason, I passed, with regret at the time. I felt that I couldn't afford, from a time standpoint, to spread myself so thin.
I did a bit of research, and found nothing within the organization that would have dissuaded me. All the lack was mine.

I have, and will do so in the future, salute all that serve both their community and their Lord in whatever fashion it may take.
Unlike some, I also salute those of any political party that put their country and service above themselves. I can not make myself "hate" any candidate as I have a, maybe naive, belief that they are doing what they feel is best for the country. I may hate their actions, their tactics and their view of what is best, but... that shouldn't make me hate the person.

Flame suit on.

[Tycer]

Mike,

(or any of the other Masons) I do have another question, I know you are new to the Masons, but how much time is needed like on a weekly basis? Does one need to go to meetings weekly or is it more a self paced type of organization?

Thanks,

Steve

I asked that question last night. Our meetings at Lodge 118 are the first Thursday of the month. When elected to a post, there are other duties that will be asked of you - i.e. Treasurer

I was told the first learned catechism should take me between three and eight one hour meetings with my coach, and that the next levels build on the first and are not quite as hard. Self paced.

[crawdaddyjim]

SteveR, It depends on the local your in mostly. But in my experience I had gone through with three others. We practiced about once a week and when we got closer to the end we went a couple of times at night after work.

The Masons believe that it goes in this order.

1. God

2. Family

3. work, lodge

You only get out of it what you put into it. But there are no strict rules on attendance or such. Now if you go through the chairs then there will be times you need to travel and such. But you are not required to do anything beyond be a good husband (if you are married), Father, citizen, human.

Lodge meets once a month unless there is a special event.

[crawdaddyjim]

Welcome to the Blue Lodge Brother. I am a sixth generation Ancient Free and Accepted Mason. I served my Lodge as WM in '94-'95 and as DDGM in 2002. I am also a 32 Degree Scottish Rite Mason, a York Rite Mason, a Shriner, a member of The Royal Order of Scotland and a member of the Eastern Star. I am a lifetime member of The Methodist/United Methodist Church and a Certified Lay Speaker. I will begin Certified Lay Minister School in February. I have found nothing in the Masonic Lodge which prevents or inhibits my service To Jesus Christ. I am first and foremost a Trinity Christian.

While Masonry is based on taking a good man and making him better it just as any other organizations has it's share of "Bad Apples". Masons for years have not asked for new members nor have Masons spoken in defense when confronted with unjust charges.

The highest honor a Mason will ever receive is that of being a Master Mason. All other related bodies/organizations are important if a man so chooses but are not greater than that of being a MM.

I am very proud of my membership, however, there is no greater calling in my life than my service to Jesus Christ, my family and my country.

Enjoy your membership and put into it what you feel comfortable doing.

jumbeaux

Welcome to the fire MW Brother, I hope you find this little slice of heaven to your liking and stay awhile.

[MikeS.]

Thanks Jumbeaux for the welcome and all. What you said sure sums it up.

[MikeS.]

Mike,
(or any of the other Masons) I do have another question, I know you are new to the Masons, but how much time is needed like on a weekly basis? Does one need to go to meetings weekly or is it more a self paced type of organization?
Thanks,
Steve

Steve, I've been meeting with my coach to learn the work of the 1st degree 2 or 3 nights a week for about 90 minutes each. Each person is different, you could do it once a week or 6 nights a week. Sunday isn't used for Lodge stuff. So more of a self paced thing.

Lodge meetings at my Lodge are every other Saturday, based on a Lunar schedule. For a 1st* there isn't much to do at Lodge.

[ScottT]

No offense taken. I am a Catholic and I am a Mason.

That was an unfortunate chapter in Catholocism. Not that big a deal.

I have no ax to grind on either side of this discussion but it would seem that that unfortunate chapter continues to the present day, at least according to vatican spokesmen (as previously quoted) and Reid McInvale of the Texas Lodge of Research.

"While the apparent tolerance of American Catholics toward Masonry is encouraging, the Vatican and the U.S. Conference of Bishops have made determinative rulings by which American Catholics at large are expected to abide. The final nail in the coffin of any possible near term rapprochement between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry appears to have been a declaration published in the official Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, ".... The faithful who enroll in masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive holy communion.... In an audience... the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration..."42 Thus, the present pope is on record opposing Masonic membership for Catholics.

In subsequent editions of the newspaper the holding of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved by the pope, has been restated and substantiated. For those of a philosophical bent, the 11 March 1985, L'Osservatore Romano (English language edition) contains an article which argues that Masonry establishes a relativistic symbolic concept of morality unacceptable to Catholicism.43

Thus, and despite the Second Ecumenical Council, the hostile tenor of Roman Catholic Church pronouncements toward Masonry remains unabated, and official church attitudes and law are not meaningfully different from those of previous centuries. The atmosphere and tradition established by long dead European popes and Freemasons continues to haunt American Freemasons. By denying communion to Roman Catholics who are Masons, the church denies obedient Roman Catholics the opportunity to share in the brotherhood of Freemasonry, and Freemasons lose the opportunity to share fraternal bonds with many Roman Catholics. "

http://www.io.com/~janebm/churchlaw.html

That's the problem with trolls. They tend to post what they want, but ignore things that do not make their point.

This matter was disposed of in 1983. However, for the benefit of others who would not know about it.
From that same article:

"The Roman Catholic Church presently operates under the new Code of Canon Law which was promulgated in 1983. This new Code revised Canon 2335 of the 1917 Code, and incorporated it into new Canon 1734, which reads as follows:" One who joins an association which plots against the church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or moderates such an association, however, is to be punished with an interdict."36 As can be seen, no longer does the Canon impose excommunication on Catholic Masons, or even mention Masons directly."
Since the Masons do not plot against the church, any church, this matter is closed.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for posting such a thing. I don't know where you came from, but I wish you would crawl back there.

[S.B.]

Life member of AF&AM 294, Pontiac, Illinois.

[S.B.]

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/secrets.html

Satanism, pure and simple.

One need look no further than Christ for salvation and brotherhood.

I once thought of joining, but then did a bit of digging and the deeper I dug, the scarier it got.

Powerful world leaders, spooky people like Allistiar Crowley and even the very motivations of the founding fathers hidden behind some secret veil of demon worship. Truly scary.


JMO.
I have Christ and need nobody else for "secrets" or "power".

You say satanic? Brash statement from someon who has never been there and has no idea of how much good this group does in communities.

[SteveR]

Thanks for the information all, I will try the local lodge and see what happens.

Take care,

Steve

[Barcelona Rick]

SteveR,

Most Masonic Lodges meet monthly for a Stated Meeting....this is the business meeting. A Called Meeting is held for purposes other than normal/routine Lodge business....this could include Degree work or for Special Programs. Most Stated Meeting last around an hour. Called Meeting may be shorter or longer in length.

A series of questions and answers are taught/learned in the three degrees. A teacher will work with you and will spend whatever time you desire. In my case we meet three times a week for about an hour.

Later if you decide to work through the chairs you will have more study and practice. Good luck.

Thanks to everyone for the welcome......I've actually been around awhile but had to re-register......I do enjoy the forum.

I firmly believe that all men/women have a right to their own opinion....I might not share your ideas but GOD bless you for having them.

jumbeaux

[Scott64A]

I dug into it and found enough reference to goats, satanic symbolism and anti-Christ mumbo-jumbo to stay away from it.

I don't agree with George Bush Sr. and Jr., Donald Rumsfeld, and a host of other power-mongers who "just so happen" to be high-order Masons.

I was merelt putting out my point of view on it, and links to what I had read/seen to warn others away from it. I'm entitled to that, and was not personally attacking Masons here. If you choose to associate with that group, and it's particular brand of witchcraft, (science and reason above Jesus and faith,) then so be it.

Masonry is supported by 98 percent of the members who don't know exactly what goes on in the highest and most secret meetings. There are even meetings that are secret to the highest 2%. I personally cannot commit to such a group, where the most influencial are hidden and secretive.

Masons existed during Christ's time, and if they were so darn good, why then would He not have been one?
If you follow Christ's teachings, you will see no support for joining organisations like this.

Call it BS if you want, but as you attend your meetings and swear fealty to this group, the ones who really move the controls delight in your ignorance and deception. The one they call Morning Star is laughing all the way to the apocalypse.

I won't post any more on this topic, I was merely weighing in to shed a little light on what I see as the Great Snow Job of our times.

I stand by my conviction: This is a secret organisation for a reason, and it's not so some French church will root them out. The deepest secrets of this group harken back to Egypt in the day of the Pharaoh. These are the secrets used to rule millions and mold the world. This is the Holy Grail, placed here by Lucifer for his purposes and he owns the Earth.

God owns the Heavens.

[Barcelona Rick]

Scott64A

While there have been several Presidents who were members I do not believe that either Bush was/is a member.

FDR, Harry Truman and Gerald Ford were the most recent....all pretty darn good men.

Take care,

jumbeaux

[S.B.]

SteveR,

Most Masonic Lodges meet monthly for a Stated Meeting....this is the business meeting. A Called Meeting is held for purposes other than normal/routine Lodge business....this could include Degree work or for Special Programs. Most Stated Meeting last around an hour. Called Meeting may be shorter or longer in length.

A series of questions and answers are taught/learned in the three degrees. A teacher will work with you and will spend whatever time you desire. In my case we meet three times a week for about an hour.

Later if you decide to work through the chairs you will have more study and practice. Good luck.

Thanks to everyone for the welcome......I've actually been around awhile but had to re-register......I do enjoy the forum.

I firmly believe that all men/women have a right to their own opinion....I might not share your ideas but GOD bless you for having them.

jumbeaux

Don't know what state your in but, that's not completely true for Illinois?

[MikeS.]

My Lodge is a bit different in that we meet on the Saturday on or before the new moon and the Saturday on or before the full moon. Like tonight before the full moon. These are considered "regular" meetings. This schedule was developed in the 1700s and based on the members being a bunch of farmers. There is still a lot of them involved.

[mklwhite]

My Lodge is a bit different in that we meet on the Saturday on or before the new moon and the Saturday on or before the full moon. Like tonight before the full moon. These are considered "regular" meetings. This schedule was developed in the 1700s and based on the members being a bunch of farmers. There is still a lot of them involved.

A Moon Lodge. That's neat. The closest one to me is about 60 miles off. If it were closer I may have joined it instead (or maybe "too").

[ScottT]

I dug into it and found enough reference to goats, satanic symbolism and anti-Christ mumbo-jumbo to stay away from it.

I don't agree with George Bush Sr. and Jr., Donald Rumsfeld, and a host of other power-mongers who "just so happen" to be high-order Masons.

I was merelt putting out my point of view on it, and links to what I had read/seen to warn others away from it. I'm entitled to that, and was not personally attacking Masons here. If you choose to associate with that group, and it's particular brand of witchcraft, (science and reason above Jesus and faith,) then so be it.

Masonry is supported by 98 percent of the members who don't know exactly what goes on in the highest and most secret meetings. There are even meetings that are secret to the highest 2%. I personally cannot commit to such a group, where the most influencial are hidden and secretive.

Masons existed during Christ's time, and if they were so darn good, why then would He not have been one?
If you follow Christ's teachings, you will see no support for joining organisations like this.

Call it BS if you want, but as you attend your meetings and swear fealty to this group, the ones who really move the controls delight in your ignorance and deception. The one they call Morning Star is laughing all the way to the apocalypse.

I won't post any more on this topic, I was merely weighing in to shed a little light on what I see as the Great Snow Job of our times.

I stand by my conviction: This is a secret organisation for a reason, and it's not so some French church will root them out. The deepest secrets of this group harken back to Egypt in the day of the Pharaoh. These are the secrets used to rule millions and mold the world. This is the Holy Grail, placed here by Lucifer for his purposes and he owns the Earth.

God owns the Heavens.

You sure have it bad don't you? Neither of the Bushes are Masons.

No goats or reference to anything contrary to Christ's teachings.

No witchcraft or placing science above religion.

Masons do not date back to the time of Christ.

We sure as heck are not ruling the world or millions of people.

When you are that full of it, you need to quit.

The only way I can think of to explain this must be that you were blackballed. If that is the case, then you know why that happened and no amount of mud slinging is going to fix that.

[S.B.]

I'm with you ScottT, must be a disgruntled petitioner that couldn't cut the mustard?

[Scott64A]

I never even approached the building, so no, I wasn't blackballed.

At any rate, it looks like I put way too much stock in the freemasonrywatch website, and let my misinformation get the better of me.

Sadly, I went so far as to come here and rant in a pretty irate fashion and I'm sorry.

I'm pretty embarrased, but can't think of anything to say but I'm sorry.

I'm wrong here, and I let my impressions about this organization get the better of my judgement.

Please accept my apologies.

[S.B.]

As far as I'm concerned apology accepted. End of subject.

[ScottT]

Scott64A,

Apology accepted.

One of the obligations I undertook when I became a Mason was to refrain from running down the good name of a fellow Mason, nor permit it to be done in my presence. I take that pretty seriously.

I commend to your reading the following:

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/crowley.html

This may help to explain the Alestair Crowley situation. I am not an apologist for Crowley, but I think you can see from what is presented that he was never what he claimed to be and was certainly not in a position to be of any influence in the craft.

I spoke with President Bush shortly after he bought his ranch near Crawford and the Crawford Lodge held out an invitation for him to join. (A very unusual step because we generally do not ask anyone to join oiur ranks, they must make the inquiry...we do not recruit.) President Bush declined at that time, I think mainly because of the kinds of rumors and untruths that pervade the Internet about Freemasonry. So I know from my own personal knowledge that the President is not a Mason, nor is his father.

That Masons have been involved in politics over the years is undeniable. George Washington was a Mason in addition to being the father of our country. But many great American Presidents were not Masons. Gerald Ford was the last of the recent Presidents to be a Mason.

However, this should not lead one to think that Masons are trying to rule the earth. The discussion of politics is strictly forbidden in my lodge, and the reason is because it tends to sow the seeds of discord between fellow Masons.

I would caution you about placing any stock in what is written about Masonry on the net, particularly if it is not written by Masons. They are not out to get anybody or do anything except take good men and try to make them better. Nothing more, nothing less.

Peace be with you and I hope this helps.

[Sixgun]

My explaination for my distrust of the Masons:

This is how it is in my mind. Its not going to be pretty. No words I have heard in 30 years since this has happened will ever change my mind.


The year was 1976. I was 22 and my older sister was 27. We are Roman Catholics and Italian. The family she married into were Protestants/English. She was married in 1968. Her husband's father was/is a 32nd degree Mason. He is 90 some years old now and should have died years ago. At the time there was great open animosity from Protestants towards Catholics and the old man (middle aged at the time) strongly discouraged this union and openly vowed to separate them.

My sister and her husband had their problems in 1976 and decided to go their own ways. Nothing big happened, they just got the 7 year itch. They agreed to peacefully separate and that for obvious reasons, their son, who was 5 at the time was to go with my sister. Several months into the separation, my sister got court papers stating her ex was going for full custody. She laughed it off as she was an excellent mother, provided well for her son and had no skeletons in the closet. This was the year 1976, and the courts at the time gave custody to the mother 99.999% of the time. Only a real proven piece of garbage mother lost her children

They went to court several weeks later and while there, noticed her father-in-law/32nd degree Mason coming out of a little room that was off limits to regular people. Very odd she thought. When her case came up, the judge listened for several minutes and slammed down the hammer and awarded immediate custody to my sister's husband with no expaination. My sister had a nervous breakdown and nearly committed suicide. Appeals in court went the same way as the first decision. Money ran out and that was it. Many years passed before happiness came back into her life. It was also openly discussed years later how the deal/custody thing went down.

Analyze this any way you want. Like most organizations, the rank and file are decent people. The higher ups are no good and are the work of the devil but sadly, control the rank and file through deception to get their own way to accomplish the devil's work.

I will never have use for the Mason's and when I see that word and the extrolling of how great they are are and how they lead such pure lives, I begin to vomit. Like Scott64 says, the masons are doing the work of the devil through the upper echelons of the leadership.

Lets get on to fun things and talk guns, reloading, family etc. We gotta figure who to beat Hillary/Obama. I sincerely apoligize for my remarks but the word "Mason" hits a sore spot. ------Sixgun

[ScottT]

My explaination for my distrust of the Masons:

This is how it is in my mind. Its not going to be pretty. No words I have heard in 30 years since this has happened will ever change my mind.


The year was 1976. I was 22 and my older sister was 27. We are Roman Catholics and Italian. The family she married into were Protestants/English. She was married in 1968. Her husband's father was/is a 32nd degree Mason. He is 90 some years old now and should have died years ago. At the time there was great open animosity from Protestants towards Catholics and the old man (middle aged at the time) strongly discouraged this union and openly vowed to separate them.

My sister and her husband had their problems in 1976 and decided to go their own ways. Nothing big happened, they just got the 7 year itch. They agreed to peacefully separate and that for obvious reasons, their son, who was 5 at the time was to go with my sister. Several months into the separation, my sister got court papers stating her ex was going for full custody. She laughed it off as she was an excellent mother, provided well for her son and had no skeletons in the closet. This was the year 1976, and the courts at the time gave custody to the mother 99.999% of the time. Only a real proven piece of garbage mother lost her children

They went to court several weeks later and while there, noticed her father-in-law/32nd degree Mason coming out of a little room that was off limits to regular people. Very odd she thought. When her case came up, the judge listened for several minutes and slammed down the hammer and awarded immediate custody to my sister's husband with no expaination. My sister had a nervous breakdown and nearly committed suicide. Appeals in court went the same way as the first decision. Money ran out and that was it. Many years passed before happiness came back into her life. It was also openly discussed years later how the deal/custody thing went down.

Analyze this any way you want. Like most organizations, the rank and file are decent people. The higher ups are no good and are the work of the devil but sadly, control the rank and file through deception to get their own way to accomplish the devil's work.

I will never have use for the Mason's and when I see that word and the extrolling of how great they are are and how they lead such pure lives, I begin to vomit. Like Scott64 says, the masons are doing the work of the devil through the upper echelons of the leadership.

Lets get on to fun things and talk guns, reloading, family etc. We gotta figure who to beat Hillary/Obama. I sincerely apoligize for my remarks but the word "Mason" hits a sore spot. ------Sixgun

Assuming what you relate here is true, and I will for the sake of this argument. I'm sorry that this happened and left such a stain on your image of Masons. I would like to point out however, that the old boy could have slipped the judge some money and this could have had nothing to do with being a Mason. Slipping the judge some money would be equally corrupt.......and everybody uses money. Abuses happen anywhere there are people, but this is not what Masonry is about. Not even close.

[AJMD429]

At any rate, it looks like I put way too much stock in the freemasonrywatch website, and let my misinformation get the better of me.
Sadly, I went so far as to come here and rant in a pretty irate fashion and I'm sorry.
I'm pretty embarrased, but can't think of anything to say but I'm sorry.
I'm wrong here, and I let my impressions about this organization get the better of my judgement.
Please accept my apologies.

Coupla' lessons for us all here...

1. This is probably the same way some otherwise really nice people get 'information' about gun owners - and think ill of us.

2. Gun owners (for sometimes legitimate reasons) can seem sort of 'secretive' to outsiders, and that adds to the ease of thinking we're up to something no good.

3. Open discussion often clarifies things pretty well. Most people are generally good people, regardless of what 'group' they are in - always a few creeps in any organization, be it Masons, the NRA, or any church you'd care to name, but don't label a whole group bad just because you happen to know of a creep who is in that group too.

4. Apologies are always good. (although I don't think I've EVER seen an anti-gunner 'see the light' and later apologise to the gun owner community!)

[El Mac]

Hey, I'm a member of the country club!!! Does that count??

[Barcelona Rick]

SB,

I live in the Great State of Texas and I was speaking only of Texas Lodges....which I should have made clear....

jumbeaux

[gamekeeper]

This is just a small bit of the enquiry into the handling of the Dunblane shooting that resulted in the UK Handgun Ban.

I know that "most" Mason's are honest folk but I have grave concerns that "some" of those at the top are corrupt and as a result England, Scotland and Wales lost the right to own Handguns.

Quote.

“I asked Lord Cullen to recuse himself if he was a Freemason. He denied
he was a Mason following the question posed. I then asked him to instruct every witness to the Inquiry to declare if they were Masons, because too many sinister loopholes were created for Thomas Hamilton over a number of years to enable him to retain his gun licence and continue running boys clubs. Hamilton was given this seal of approval despite many misgivings from worried members of the public, certain police officers and others.

"As it happened, Lord Cullen did not recuse himself, even though, as I have recently discovered, he is numbered 1702 on the membership list of the ‘Speculative Society of Edinburgh’, which is an exclusive off-shoot of Freemasonry. In fact, Masons from Lodge Canongate Kilwinning No 2, founded the “Speculative Societyâ€

[Tycer]

Well boys, tomorrow I will be installed as master of Mt. Hermon Lodge No. 118
Fast tracking it without trying. Wow.
If y'all could keep me in your prayers, we've got a lot to accomplish this year.
Not the least is to revamp the website. www.masonic118.com

[Ray Newman]

Brother Tycer: may the temple Light shine brighter during your stewardship. And may the rough and rugged road run smooth and straight.

[MikeS.]

Brother Tycer, congratulation on your trip to the East! I pray you have a smooth and fruitful year.

I'm scheduled to join you in the East in 18 months.

[Poohgyrr]

Congratulations Worshipful, our best and prayers for a great year. Sounds great, and Im sure you and your Officers will have a memoriable year! Congratulations again!

[Lawyer Daggit]

I am a Brother, and although I do not go to lodge these days I try to live my life by masonic principles.

[Mescalero]

Been approached, still hesitant.
I am with Groucho Marx,
why would I want to belong to an organzation that would have me as a member.

[Tycer]

Been approached, still hesitant.
I am with Groucho Marx,
why would I want to belong to an organzation that would have me as a member.

The last parts of my speech last night might help:

So what is Freemasonry?
Our English Brethren describe it thusly:

"Freemasonry is a beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols."

The system of morality to which every Mason is bound to profess and practice.

Freemasonry is neither a religion, a political organization, nor a social club and it interferes with none of these.
It is a Fraternity or brotherhood pledged to the building of character -- thoughts, words, motives, and deeds being the materials used. It strives to teach man the duty he owes to God, his country, his neighbor, and himself. It inculcates the practice of virtue and morality in daily conduct, and it conveys its teachings through ceremonies and symbols.

There are no precise historical records now available to establish the first origin of Masonry; and if any ever existed, they are now completely buried in obscurity. However, its philosophy may be traced back to the remote ages, where records actually do exist in many cases. Its operative symbols are older than the Temple of Solomon or the Law of Moses, and many of its ceremonies may have been practiced in the ancient mysteries when Egypt stood as the most enlightened power of the world as then known.
The mission of Masonry now, is to teach men to curb their intemperate passions and to reconcile conflicting interests.

The advantages which mankind in general reaps from this science of morality are beyond calculation. Its blessings are not confined to any one country but are diffused by the Craft throughout the world. Men of every country, sect, and opinion are united in a strong bond of brotherly affection with the sole object of improving men and blessing mankind.

A Mason is at home in every country and with his friends in every lodge. On the level of Masonry, we know only God and man. We know neither rich nor poor, neither royal blood nor peasant stock. Men of wealth, men of simple toil, philosophers, royal heirs, and hard-handed peasants meet here upon the level, upon a common ground as brothers; and God is the Father of them all.

The right to petition for the degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry is rarely denied to any man, but this right goes no further than granting the privilege of petitioning; all who petition are not admitted. Masonry does not solicit members, we are forbidden to invite anyone to the fraternity; it wants and welcomes men of high character and integrity who should seek admission entirely of their own free will and accord. They must ask for a petition from any Mason.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp2aO41vY8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyzOQ6mtrVY

[Mescalero]

I was told that I should consider submittig a petition.

[Tycer]

I was told that I should consider submittig a petition.

From what I know of you here, you are a just and upright man. You would raise the bar at any Lodge.


Lodges vary state to state and even within the same county or parish. Some are more formal in their dress, ways, and strict adherence to their state Code than others. Usually, a Lodge is a pretty good representation of the type of folk that live near it. If you like the guys that are active at your local Lodge, joining them might be a good thing. If at any time you decide different or your personal life does not allow any time for it, you can simply stop going. If you move or find a group of guys you like better at a different Lodge, you can move.

I've been in it a bit less than three years. I wish I had done it as a younger man. But....as a younger man they would probably not have let me in....

[SFRanger7GP]

I am a Master Mason, Phoenix Lodge #8, Fayetteville, NC; York and Scottish Rites and Sudan Shriner. There is no better fraternity in the world and I have traveled (and still travel) most of it. During a raid on a drug lab in Bolivia years ago, we found a kid that had been playing near the fire and got burned severely by diesel. For those that don't know it is used for making cocaine (great stuff, huh?) and the cocaleros wash there clothes in it if that's all they have. This kid was a disaster of burns and infections. 4 days later we had him on a plane to the US with his family. They were received by the Road Runners and other Shriner Units (I'm a HillBilly) and shuttled to the Shriner Hospital for Children in Galveston. Many month of therapy and numerous operations and that kid was good as new. Cost to the family, $0. Cost to the US taxpayer, $0. I know Masons from my unit that have done the same all over Latin America. No questions were ever asked about religion, political affiliation or what side they are on in the war on drugs and terrorism. That is the organization I am proud to be a member of.

ScottT: Glad to have you back. I have moved further south since we last talked. Also, I have picked up 2 more Shiloh's. I will never forget how you mentored me in developing loads for my Shiloh at our range west of SA.