.357mag vs .44mag benefits / suggested guns

[petie]

New to this. Desire a lever gun for fun and home defense. Thinking of the pistol calibers in a lever gun. Which caliber is recommended for accuracy, distance, application 357 mag or 44 mag? Have read that the 357 might be more accurate but not sure. Cost of ammo differences? I am not a reloader. Then, with the recommended caliber, what rifle is recommended - for quality, feel, reliability? Thanks.
Pete

[nemhed]

Welcome, to the forum. This subject has been batted around a lot here. My short answer is the 357 in a Marlin 1894. It does everything I want, at a reasonable cost.

[meanc]

Ammo for both is widely offered at just about any sporting store.

38spcl and 357mag is usually cheaper than 44spcl/44mag.

My 44mags are every bit as accurate as my 357mags.

Quality feel and reliability are all subjective, but I like them all.

They make excellent self defense/home defense ammo in both calibers, but I wouldn't shoot either out of a levergun in my home.

If you go with 357mag, 125gr 38spcl +p from Remington would do nice as a home defense round from a lever.

Maybe some factory cowboy load 44spcl if you go with the 44mag.

Regular mag ammo from a lever in either caliber, and you're asking for penetration thru several walls.


Oh yeah, GET A SHOTGUN !!!

[petie]

Yea - sure - but who makes a lever shotgun ???
Am also thinking strongly of the shotgun approach but have this lust for a lever gun!!! Had read some recommendations of the pistol rounds in rifles as great rounds for in-home use compared to true rifle cartriges but maybe a bad idea. Read that the rifle gives more than double the energy out of the pistol rounds. So many ways to go - shotgun and pistol, low powered rifle, so many caliber choices, etc.

I am not a hunter at this time but desire something multi-purpose. Thanks!!

[MikeS.]

Welcome Petie,

You ask a broad range of ?s,

Personally I like the .357. I've owned at least 1 since 1978. I just bought my 1st .44magnum 6 months ago.

I posted up a small range report a few minutes ago from both my .44 and .357 lever guns.

I'd go with the .357, a Marlin 1894 to be specific.

[brucew44guns]

I own an 1894 Marlin in .44 mag, and I also would not consider using it as a home defense piece for several reasons, but mainly for it's size and difficulty in concealing. But I must say, that for someone who for many years thought it had to be at least a .348, a .35 Whelen, or a 45:70 just to seriousely slow down a jackrabbit, I changed my mind a lot after I got the 94 in a 44 mag. Powerful!! doesn't do it real justice, it's a thumper, or else Im just getting to be an old guy, maybe both. You go someplace where they have an 1894 in the store, that you can feel and handle, you'll likely want one. I may just get a .357 myself.

[petie]

Thanks guys. Do you have opinions of range and accuracy comparisons for the 357 vs 44? I am sure there are various rounds available to select from. Why would you select one over the other? I like the idea of an acurate long range cartridge and realize for that a true center fire rifle would be better but have no idea what these 2 are capable of. Thanks again!!

[petie]

Guess I should have read Agent00's post above mine. Lots of info there on same topic although overseas related. Thanks.

[nemhed]

I got my Marlin because it is now legal to hunt deer in Indiana with pistol caliber rifles (ie 357mag,44mag,45lc,454, and 500sw). I went with the 357 because it does more of what I want. The ammo is cheaper, whether reloading or factory. The 357 isn't overkill on small game and varmints, but will still take deer with a well placed shot (I shot two this past fall with it). The 125g jhp is a great round for two legged and four legged varmints. I just didn't feel the need to sling more lead or burn more powder. The 44mag will work better on large deer,hogs or bear. It's just a matter of where your priorities lay. The practical range of the two rounds is about the same , it's just a matter of what you want the bullet to do when it gets there. These are not 200 yd guns. A practiced shot could take a deer at 150 yds with the added power of a 44mag, but again only with careful shot placement. I would not use a 44mag inside my house for self defense unless offered no other choice. A short barreled 12 gauge pump is a much better choice IMHO and probably better than any handgun. I would have no concealment issues inside my own home and feel shot placement will be more accurate in a stressful situation with a long gun. Do a search on this subject, there is a lot of info here and a lot of opinions, mine is only one.

[JimT]

Range and accuracy of both the .44 and the 357 are limited by the nut on the stock.

As to lever shotguns .. they are out there ... Marlin and Winchester leveractions in 410 ... modern-made reproductions of the old Winchester 1887 ...

[Lastmohecken]

Petie,

You will find fans of about everything here. Here's my opinion, based on my own personal experience, for what it is worth.

I have learned to trust my Winchester 94 angle eject Trapper in .357. It's a very reliable gun and not very finickey at all on ammo choices, and a sheer pleasure to shoot, with practically no recoil to speak of.

I also own a model 94 in 44mag, this gun is very reliable, also. But with full loads it kicks rather smartly, but is a pussycat with 44 special loads.

I also own a Browning 92 in 44mag. If you fine one of these, beg, barrow, or steal the money, if you don't have it, but whatever you do, buy it. Mine is the smoothest, slickest, leveraction I have ever owned. It's accurate, recoil seem much lighter the the model 94 in 44mag, and it seems to shoot more accurately. These guns are expensive and not made anymore but IMHO, about the best of breed.

If I was going to buy a Marlin, I would place my bet on the .357 over the 44, mainly because I have seem lots of marlin 44s with jamming problems, but many on this board swear by the 44 Marlins, so maybe I have just had bad luck in that area.

And while I have never owned one, I have shot other people's Winchester 73 replicas in .357 mag and frankly, I don't know why I have never bought one, yet. The ones I have been around and shot, worked very well, and were a sheer joy to shoot and plink with.

Many people on this board love the Rossi 92. I bought two of them brand new in .357 and had lots of feed problems with both of them. I suspect lots of them need a good action job to be at their best. I gave up on both of mine, but you will find many people who love them, so once again, maybe I just had some really bad luck wth the ones I got.

I recond you pays your money and you take your chances. I guess my experience has been if you get a good one that is very reliable, then you have a great gun, that is more versatile then many would think, but get a jammer and they can be very agrivating.

[AJMD429]

Yea - sure - but who makes a lever shotgun ???

I THINK either Marlin or the former Winchester made a lever-action 410 shotgun...

Granted, I'd rather have a 12 gauge, and settle for the pump vs. lever to get the 12 gauge vs. 410 bore, but I don't think an intruder would notice the difference; would YOU want to get shot with a 410? I wouldn't! (Of course, that's reason # 492 why I don't break into people's homes.)

[Scott64A]

I recommend the .357, but only because I recently started reloading for it and have come to love this round.

Methinks if I got all intimate with the .44, the same thing might happen, but I won't two-time the .357.

It may be too much in the house from a lever, but if you handload, you can easily whip up some .38spl, (or buy a cheap box full,) and have near pistol magnum velocities. The 125grJHPs won't go through several walls... from what I've read, on "human" size game, they go in to any boiler room and explode, upsetting a lot of important equipment in the process.

For deer, you can get .357magnums and sling 158gr soft points. Thes will hold together better and for crying out loud, I would bet that you can hit 1800fps with them out of a levergun with even an 18" barrel.
I wouldn't go using 125grJHP at deer, they can wreck too much meat. JHP were meant for the destruction of human targets.

Now, the other cool thing about the .357mag is that one can buy a revolver in the same and still use 125gr magnum loads for home defense.

They have a 96% one-shot stop rating.

[ccw9mm]

I've got both a Marlin 1894P .44mag, and a Marlin 1894CP .357mag. They are both 16" ported bbl, blued, straight checkered walnut stock. Each shoots well. The .357 is, of course, a lighter shooter. The .44 has a minor kick, but (IMO) the porting and balance of the rifle makes for a very manageable recoil.

If you're looking for a quick-handling, easy to carry gun, the shorter Marlin 1894's are hard to beat. In either .44 or .357, they'll work well for you.

On the day I acquired the 1894P, a year ago, I had in my hands a Winchester 94 Trapper .44mag. It felt a bit lighter, better handling, with a slightly narrower grip area. Otherwise, similar in feel to the 1894CP .357.

Besides feel, the other major consideration is whether you're looking to have a revolver companion to the rifle. As some have suggested, the .357 can make for a more concealable revolver, but the .44 offers a heavier punch. Depends on what you prefer.

[pricecw]

I have a Cowboy Limited in .357Mag and .45, the 1894P in 44Mag, and a winchester trapper in 44Mag.

Pick one and embrace it. Don't think you can go wrong with either the 357Mag or the 44Mag.

I think that I would get a pistol or shotgun for home defense, but a nice carbine would work if it had to.

I also have a winchester 9410, great little shotgun, but a little long for home defense in tight areas.

--Carl

[Leverdude]

Its easier if you have one of each. Or 2 .

[Bob]

I'm not a good example. My solution was both! I have 2 '92's in 357 and one '94 in 44. All Winchester (one a Winnie clone). All are quite accurate, but then I have 50+ year old eyes. I use receiver sights on two and a tang sight on one. If I had to choose only one, I'd probably go with the 44 trapper, because it can throw a bigger, heavier slug using very heavy loads. But I'd really hate to make that choice - I've already failed at it 3 times!!!
Bob

[Griff]

Hmmm.... I wonder why no one is willing to let you in on the true secret of the BEST levergun short cartridge... I've had a Winchester 94 .44RemMag.; built in 1969 and stolen in 1974. Absolutely awesome. Kicked like a Missouri mule on steriods! But, it hit just as hard. Wished I still had it.

I have two Rossi 92s in .357 and they are sweet shooting and cycling carbines. But, as mentioned above, they do have some issues out of the box. A little judicious tuning and smoothing of machining marks, viola! Sweet guns. Very popular and very handy.

Now... for the piece de resistance'! Either a Rossi 92 or Uberti '73 in .45 Colt! In factory ammo form it's a sweet shooting, fairly potent round for most purposes. And, in a strong action like the Rossi 92, it can be hotrodded up beyond .44Mag pressures and ballistics, with a wider range of bullets!

[Slick]

Thinking of the pistol calibers in a lever gun. Which caliber is recommended for accuracy, distance, application 357 mag or 44 mag?

I've ALWAYS thought this was one of the best questions (about the "magnum" pistol caliber lever-guns). I own lever-action pistol caliber carbines in BOTH calibers, and my feeling is that the .357magnum gains more from being chambered in a "long-gun".

That said, I've gone and bought a second .357 lever gun, but must admit that I *still* want a second .44mag levergun too...

[Noah Zark]

. . . Which caliber is recommended for accuracy, distance, application 357 mag or 44 mag? . . . Then, with the recommended caliber, what rifle is recommended - for quality, feel, reliability?

IMO, you couldn't go wrong with either chambering, because of the plethora of loads out there for both the 38 Spl/.357 Mag and 44 Spl/44 Mag. I own levers in both chamberings, and in my experience they are both equally accurate, but the "distance" or practical range edge goes to the 44 Spl/44 Magnum for energy, IMO. The economy vote goes to the 38/357, because there are some loadings offered by W-W, Remington, Fiocchi, and Sellier & bellot that are comparatively inexpensive.

As to the rifle, my overall preference would be for the Browning B92, or a tuned Rossi/Puma. The 92 action is just TOO smooth and sexy -- when it goes "snick-snick" it just feels right. Browning 92s are scarce and expensive, running around $700-$900, but the Rossi/Puma when properly tuned and polished inside is just as sweet for a lot less bux. One thing to note on the Browning 92, it can be cranky with feeding 38 Spl cartidges with short OALs. The 38 Spl can be made to cycle through a 357 B92, but longer, heavier bullets seated out by about 0.100" to 0.125" are what's needed. That gets the 38 Spl round into the same OAL range as that of the 357 Mag.

Second choice would be a 16" Winchester Trapper or a 16" Marlin 1894 in your selected chambering. I like the 16" barrel because it presents a sweet-handling, compact weapon, and the 16" barrel squeezes out just about all the velocity that can be had from a pistol cartridge. You might get a few more FPS from a 20" barrel, but practically speaking it's "pedal to the metal" by the time the lead passes the 16" mark. I own Trappers in 357 and 30-30, and they function with 100% reliability. I own 16" Marlin 1894s in 44 Mag and 45 Colt, and an 18" 1894 in 357 and have no complaints about any of them. All of my Marlins have had the "jam" fix applied, and the inside edges of the loading gate receiver windows have been blunted to prevent thumb lacerations. My right thumb is 1/2" shorter and about half the diameter it used to be on account of shoving cartridges in box-stock Marlin 1894s. But the 1/8" to 3/16" layer of scar tissue has reduced the blood loss and need for ownership of Johnson and Johnson stock.

Regarding lever shotguns, both Winchester and Marlin marketed .410 levers in the late 90s and into the new century. Locally, several of these sat unsold on dealer shelves for YEARS but the closing of Winchester's 94 rifle operations saw those guns disappear as if beamed up to the Enterprise.

Another lever option is the IAC (Interstate Arms Corp) 1887 12 gauge shotgun, a copy of the Winchester 87. I own a few of them, and after a little polishing and tweaking insode they are a hoot to shoot.

Noah

[petie]

I was joking about the lever shotguns!!! I had absolutley no idea there was such a thing and this being a levergun forum. Does sound like a cool idea though. Love the lever looks and feel. Just seems so right!!!!!!!!
Thank you all for so much feedback and so many suggestions. Really appreciated from a totally unknowledged person!
I like quality and learned not to buy cheap - especially in tools. Have found a guy that specializes in Rossi 92 inprovements (Steve Young) if I went that way. Love the idea of finding a Browning B92 but have no idea how to purchase used guns without getting burned. We just got a new Bass Pro and have a Cabelas locally - not sure if that is a good source for used vs new guns. I am in Louisiana.
As to pistols in these rounds, dumb question - Does anyone make a semiauto pistol in .357mag or special? Not really a revolver guy - but might become one .

[meanc]

does anyone make a semiauto pistol in .357mag or special

Yep, it's called a 45ACP

Desert Eagle use to make a 357mag semi, but they were discontinued. still can be found for about $650-700

[Noah Zark]

Petie:

Louisiana? Acadian country. I love zydeco; was listening to a zydeco CD this morning on the way to a client.

Here's a pic of the IAC 1887 shotgun; I added the Limbsaver pad and sling:




For handguns, there's very limited choice for autos in 38 Spl/357 Mag so as to be non-existant. You're looking at revolvers, and a choice between single-actions or double actions from a variety of manufacturers. That's a topic for a separate thread.

Best,

Noah

[getitdone1]

I've had the 44 mag in a Marlin lever gun. Thought it kicked more than it was worth. You might say compared to the 30-30. Take a 30-30 every time.

The gun I like about as much as any gun I've ever had--and there's been a bunch--is a Browning model B-92 chambered for the 357 mag. There is no sweeter combo in the gun world !

You have more power with the 44 but if you place the bullet properly on game they'll never know the difference.

I'd have another B-92/357 by now but I have a Winchester/jap model 92 in 45 Colt. Rifle with long barrel and crescent butt. Dang if it ain't prettier than the B-92. So don't expect I'll be getting another B-92 any time soon.

Don McCullough

[runfiverun]

any 92 is a good 92
shots within 100 yds dont matter except for hole size
if you reload it dont really matter
shop around find one with smooth action and good wood to metal fit
and you will be happy with the caliber.

runfiverun