45-70 double

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:44 am

Best wishes and prayers sent for both of them.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:02 am

Family and health first. We can all wait. Prayers up!!!

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:48 pm

I have an old double 20 gauge from FIE which I haven't shot in years. Whenever Paco gets the time to get back to us, My old double might just become a shooter again.

six_gunz · Post by **six_gunz** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:30 am

This is something I'd definitely be interested in. Hope all is well and get well soon!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri May 29, 2009 11:15 am

prayers up for Paco and his family. blessings

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:58 pm

Hi All,

I'll add my 'two cents'.....I've got a 12 guage double that hasn't been fired in twenty years....victim of the 12 guage pump. I was thinking just today that I shouldn't have to buy another firearm...I've got more projects in the works or in the planning than I can complete before I'm seventy! I'll be taking good notes!

Prayers sent for Mr and Mrs Paco!!

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:27 pm

My prayers as well for Mrs. Kelly and friend Paco. I would really enjoy a write up on a 45/70 double!!

Steve

crow · Post by **crow** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:46 pm

Yes mate, very much so. I am currently in love with the Kodiak MK IV double rifle in 45/70 so this would be a blessing.

BTW, I am assuming out of interest, would this same process work with a U/O shotgun?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paco, to busy hurrying to get a reply in and only just saw your situation. Though a Faithless man I will say "Godspeed" and most profound

wishes for you and your good wife.

colo native · Post by **colo native** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:36 pm

my interest is in the change of the the shotgun fireing pins to not retract causng the gun to hang up???

Little Doc · Post by **Little Doc** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:32 pm

a lot of interest here. i check back often to see what Paco has to say. sad to see no info yet. but i have a question. Jim T can you give us an up date on Paco and wife. your last info was in may. i am sure everyone would be interested in their health. unless of course we would be intruding on their privacy. my well wishes go to Paco and wife.
Little Doc

Naphtali · Post by **Naphtali** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:17 pm

In the current American Rifleman is a "Dope Bag" report on a Polish-manufactured hammer side-by-side shotgun. While it is expensive for the product, it also appears to be well made, and well designed for heavy loading. Considering the apparent wall thickness of the barrels, I suspect this shotgun would be the basis for a safe double rifle, not necessarily limited to 45-70 conversion.

Considering the machine's apparent over-design, I suspect some lobbying or a barrage of queries might impel the manufacturer and/or importer to offer a double rifle on the platform.

Just some thoughts.

44magHunter · Post by **44magHunter** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:22 pm

Yes, that would be awsome.

Pictures........

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:01 pm

Yes, I wanna see pictures.

Naphtali · Post by **Naphtali** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:46 pm

http://www.pioneer-pac.com/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Article ... 24&id=1965

To request you to become members of the National Rifle Association would not be out of place or rude, would it? Were you, you would have these data already.

There is no downside to joining.

Hope this helps.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:53 pm

A subtle re-styling of the receiver bosses, and closer-set hammer spurs (a-la: 1878 Colt/TTN) would make it IDEAL, IMNSHO...

CoopertownBob · Post by **CoopertownBob** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:13 pm

A hearty "Here-Here!" to that, Paco! 45-70 is one of my favorite cartridges! Also, when are you going to do that article on the 30-30 IMP you spoke of many moons ago? I've acquired a suitable rifle for the project now, but was waiting until you did the article so I could read it and know what to expect; i.e. no surprises.

jebb45 · Post by **jebb45** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:46 pm

For those that are interested in a double 45-70, there is another source.......MCA Sports/ACE Bullet Company. Contact Ace Dubbe at lilred@sinbad.net and he can fix you up with what you need. I have the StageCoach 12 gauge w/20 inch barrels and now I have 18 inch barrel inserts in 45-70 that slip right into each barrel. I followed his instructions and am able to get 2-2 1/2 inch groups at 75 yards. At 100 yards, I can keeps all 5 shots in a 4 inch circle with open sights . This makes on hell of a close brush gun. Tried it this season and it works outstanding. 2 shots and 2 deer DRT. Contact Ace and he can help with your needs.

jebb45

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:51 pm

Jebb45,

How much?

jebb45 · Post by **jebb45** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:36 pm

Travis......
By the time the 2 barrels got to my door, the cost was $316.00. That makes the barrels $158.00 each. I know the cost of everything is going up, so if I were you, I would call him and find out what the cost would be. Whatever the cost, it is very reasonable for what you get. If you figure it out, you are gettin a whole new gun in the deal. Not to mention a gun that you already have and that fits you. I have been looking for a double rifle for about 10-15 years and just could not see spending the kind of money they were asking [1400-3000] dollars, and you only have a double rifle. The way I did it, I still have my shotgun, and I keep the 45-70 barrels with it along with a 100 rounds of ammo. It can't get any better than that. I makes for one Hell Of A double purpose firearm. Its outstanding!!!!!!!!!

jebb45

AkRay · Post by **AkRay** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:47 pm

I'm wondering where a guy would find a double rifle for from 1400 to 3000 dollars. I don't think I've ever seen them.

44magHunter · Post by **44magHunter** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:11 pm

Must see that!

Need some pics too.

2fewdaysafield · Post by **2fewdaysafield** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:54 pm

Here you go.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =149591758

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =148831640

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =150025105

Also, until recently Remington was importing a Baikal double rifle that went for about $1,000. Countn't find one on GB though.

jebb45 · Post by **jebb45** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:51 pm

Akray..........
Look up Kodiak dbl rifle, 45-70, sights, 24 inch barrels with hammers..........last one I saw was $2295.00. That was 5 years ago. They probably bring a lot more now. The way I put together my setup, you can get several different calibers. Most are of the low pressure design or straight wall design. I am also looking at a 30-30 or 30-40 set of barrels. Later on I will be looking at a set of barrels in 22 Hornet for my 410 stagecoach. I think it is one HELL of a good setup. A person can't go wrong....!

AkRay · Post by **AkRay** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:41 am

You're right jebb45. I remember the Kodiak double, and they do go for about that price. The Valmet over and under rifles are in that range too. When I think double rifle though, I think side by side and in big calibers. That's what threw me.

Lawyer Daggit · Post by **Lawyer Daggit** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:44 pm

Yes please, could be an interesting read, and if it is not too difficult, a good project.

jebb45 · Post by **jebb45** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:32 am

This is how I put my 45-70 double rifle together....

The 45-70 has been my life long love. I shot my first whitetail deer with a 1873 Trapdoor Springfield, in 1960 and have had a love for this cartridge every since. I have cast bullets for this caliber every since, and I have put more lead down range from this cartridge than all of the other calibers I load for put together. I have since aquired several bullet molds for all the weights from 300 gr to the 540 gr.
I have always wanted a double rifle in 45-70, and dreamed many nights of how I was going to find 2500 to 3000 dollars for such a rifle. I finally came to the conclusion that it would not happen in my lifetime and I had almost given up. I was reading a gun rag or a friend told me of a web sight(can't remember which) called MCA Sports/ACE Bullet Company. The fine gentleman that I got in contact (lilred@sinbad.net) Explained how my dream could finally come true. Mr. Dubbie told me that he makes inserts that will fit in a shotgun barrel. Behold my Cowboy Stagecoach Shotgun has now become a dual purpose firearm. I ordered (2) barrels 18 inches long, and in 45-70 caliber. At the time the cost was $316.00 to my door, its probably more now with raise in materials? The waite time was 2-3 weeks but I have to say it was well worth the waite. It took some time to get things lined out but man what a dream. The muzzle of the barrels are turned of center some 5-7 thousands, you turn the barrel in the shotgun chamber to get it zeroed. Right barrel first and then the left barrel. Once you have each barrel zeroed, mark the chamber end with a mark so you can return the barrel to zero, if you ever take them out. I do not load anything maximum, only to Trapdoor spec's, and the dbl rifle shoots fantastic. With 350 gr cast bullets, AA2230 powder, lrg rifle primers, I can run 1400-1600 fps all day long and its a pleasure to shoot. With a box of shotgun shells and a box of 45-70 ammo, I am ready for anything (pig gun deluxe). Contact ACE DUBBIE at the above web sight, he can help. I am thinking maybe 22 Hornet in my 410 double stagecoach is in the future.

jebb45

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:41 pm

jebb45 wrote:
This is how I put my 45-70 double rifle together....

The 45-70 has been my life long love. I shot my first whitetail deer with a 1873 Trapdoor Springfield, in 1960 and have had a love for this cartridge every since. I have cast bullets for this caliber every since, and I have put more lead down range from this cartridge than all of the other calibers I load for put together. I have since aquired several bullet molds for all the weights from 300 gr to the 540 gr.
I have always wanted a double rifle in 45-70, and dreamed many nights of how I was going to find 2500 to 3000 dollars for such a rifle. I finally came to the conclusion that it would not happen in my lifetime and I had almost given up. I was reading a gun rag or a friend told me of a web sight(can't remember which) called MCA Sports/ACE Bullet Company. The fine gentleman that I got in contact (lilred@sinbad.net) Explained how my dream could finally come true. Mr. Dubbie told me that he makes inserts that will fit in a shotgun barrel. Behold my Cowboy Stagecoach Shotgun has now become a dual purpose firearm. I ordered (2) barrels 18 inches long, and in 45-70 caliber. At the time the cost was $316.00 to my door, its probably more now with raise in materials? The waite time was 2-3 weeks but I have to say it was well worth the waite. It took some time to get things lined out but man what a dream. The muzzle of the barrels are turned of center some 5-7 thousands, you turn the barrel in the shotgun chamber to get it zeroed. Right barrel first and then the left barrel. Once you have each barrel zeroed, mark the chamber end with a mark so you can return the barrel to zero, if you ever take them out. I do not load anything maximum, only to Trapdoor spec's, and the dbl rifle shoots fantastic. With 350 gr cast bullets, AA2230 powder, lrg rifle primers, I can run 1400-1600 fps all day long and its a pleasure to shoot. With a box of shotgun shells and a box of 45-70 ammo, I am ready for anything (pig gun deluxe). Contact ACE DUBBIE at the above web sight, he can help. I am thinking maybe 22 Hornet in my 410 double stagecoach is in the future.

jebb45

The website is http://www.mcace.com/ .... BUT, I emailed about a set for my 16ga hammergun and they never replied...

jebb45 · Post by **jebb45** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:10 pm

Ironsighter::::
Be patient, he will get back to you. It may take a few days, hang in there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:55 pm

jebb45 wrote:Ironsighter::::
Be patient, he will get back to you. It may take a few days, hang in there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was before I moved to Wyoming in September.

I'm in no hurry. I'll try again.

jebb45 · Post by **jebb45** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:17 pm

Old Ironsighter::::
There is a phone number on his web site, try it, he should answer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KEEP TRYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

jebb45

madman · Post by **madman** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:25 am

That Double project sounds nice. I LOVE my 45-70 Handgun, it is fun to let people shoot it and see the reaction on there Face when it goes of.... HA HA I get a chuckle every time.

Lee Mitchell · Post by **Lee Mitchell** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm

I have a pre WWII Sterling 12ga side by side I would love to do this to. I would think 2 barrel inserts could be made. For weight they would need to be carbon fiber bull barrels the outside machined tight to inside barrel dimension. Wow, if that would work, then you could load one side or both. Am I close? Or am I out there?

Lee Mitchell · Post by **Lee Mitchell** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:48 am

Check this out is this the answer to the question?

http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:10 am

Lee Mitchell wrote:Check this out is this the answer to the question?

http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

Biggest problem with Ace's inserts is that they are only 18" long.

Lee Mitchell · Post by **Lee Mitchell** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:34 pm

I can't think of what else Paco was thinking..., EAA has something better, its what I would think is the best deal without a lathe. Must be heavy as hell too...,
http://www.eaacorp.com/parts-more-acces ... serts.html

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:18 am

Lee Mitchell wrote:I can't think of what else Paco was thinking..., EAA has something better, its what I would think is the best deal without a lathe. Must be heavy as hell too...,
http://www.eaacorp.com/parts-more-acces ... serts.html

Just imagine.......weight training & recreational shooting all rolled into one.
Just add a set of wheels and call it artillery.

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:26 pm

Lee Mitchell wrote:I can't think of what else Paco was thinking..., EAA has something better, its what I would think is the best deal without a lathe. Must be heavy as hell too...,
http://www.eaacorp.com/parts-more-acces ... serts.html

If they would make the little plug at the end of the barrel screw onto the incert rather then into the shotgun barrel choke threads this could fit any shotgun...I would think.
Terry

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:21 am

Baikal markets a rather attractive looking S/S double rifle in .45-70 GVT for around $975 called the ARTEMIDIA MP-221 45-70 double rifle.

It is by no means a Westley Richards covered in scroll work & fancy engraving but it doesn't cost as much as a luxury car either.

I have a Baikal IZH-94 O/U in 12 gauge/.308 Win & it is a good looking & solidly built gun & comes in at considerably less than $1000.

The .308 Winchester barrel in my IZH-94 gives me 3/4" groups with the 180 grain Nosler spitzer Federal High Energy ammo.......that's better accuracy than some of my bolt action rifles !!!!

The Baikal is a high quality gun that people who have never even held one in their hands like to verbally denigrate like they do the Rossi firearms.

I have no interest in double rifles basically for the reason that they're too darn heavy.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:35 am

pricedo wrote:..I have no interest in double rifles basically for the reason that they're too darn heavy.

I think that's pretty much the point of Doubles.

Heavy enough to tame big-bore recoil - twice.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:54 am

My only problem with buying a Baikal is the concern that, like Rossi, they might change hands repeatedly, change suppliers a few times, then, not have parts! Baikal actually makes a pump/auto shotgun I wanted for 3 gun, and that's why I didn't buy it.

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:31 pm

pricedo wrote:Baikal markets a rather attractive looking S/S double rifle in .45-70 GVT for around $975 called the ARTEMIDIA MP-221 45-70 double rifle.

It is by no means a Westley Richards covered in scroll work & fancy engraving but it doesn't cost as much as a luxury car either.

I have a Baikal IZH-94 O/U in 12 gauge/.308 Win & it is a good looking & solidly built gun & comes in at considerably less than $1000.

The .308 Winchester barrel in my IZH-94 gives me 3/4" groups with the 180 grain Nosler spitzer Federal High Energy ammo.......that's better accuracy than some of my bolt action rifles !!!!

The Baikal is a high quality gun that people who have never even held one in their hands like to verbally denigrate like they do the Rossi firearms.

I have no interest in double rifles basically for the reason that they're too darn heavy.

Do you have a link? I searched Google but could not find anything.
Thanks
Terry

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:46 am

Baikal is once again being distributed by Eaa Corp ( http://www.eaacorp.com )

Can you tell us more about this....Baikal IZH-94 O/U in 12 gauge/.308 Win

Is it a switch barrel or does it use inserted tubes?

Pictures woiuld be great!

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:12 pm

rbertalotto wrote:Baikal is once again being distributed by Eaa Corp ( http://www.eaacorp.com )

Can you tell us more about this....Baikal IZH-94 O/U in 12 gauge/.308 Win

Is it a switch barrel or does it use inserted tubes?

Pictures woiuld be great!

Double trigger system..........one for 12 gauge (O) ........the other for .308 Win (U).

Great mixed bag hunting gun.

I have a 2-7x33mm Leupold installed on mine with Warne QD mounts with return to "zero" capability.

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:13 pm

Thanks.............Sounds nice

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:20 pm

BTW....I've had two of those Baikal side by side rifles in my hands. I don't usually make negative comments because one mans trash is another.............

BUT........those rifles are very "rough"...........In fact, they are extremely "rough".................Nuff said. Sorry if you have one and I offended.

It's a shame, because most other Baikal rifles I've handled from their target 22RF to the cowboy shotguns and the over under are excellent..........It's your dime!

And one more thing, I just emailed EAA about the shotgun barrel inserts............Reply:

"Yes sir we still have some . Need to call 1-800-536-4442 ext 201"

Now I just need to find an EAA IZH43 shotgun.............

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:20 pm

rbertalotto wrote:Thanks.............Sounds nice

I GOOGLED "Baikal IZH-94" & was literally drowned in images of & descriptions of the gun so posting a picture here would be an unnecessary redundancy.

The only problem some might have with the gun is that with the scope attached it is a bit on the heavy side.

I don't think it's heavy at all compared with some scoped bolt actions that don't have anywhere near the versatility.

On the other hand since it's a break open action it can be disassembled & carried in a pack sack or luggage quite easily.

Break open actions are incredibly safe as you can see with a flick of a lever & a glance whether it's loaded or not.

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:29 am

I'll add my ditto's.

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:08 am

Just to keep this thread going. I finally purchased a Shotgun with the EAA 45-70 inserts. Love it! Great fun to shoot and charging 1 gallon water jugs are stopped in their tracks!

Many more pictures here:

http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/thi ... -bounty-h/

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:16 am

But wait……….There’s more!

Recently I’ve become enamored with dangerous game, high bucks, double rifles. Since I don’t have the means to buy a “real” double rifle, I bought a shotgun converted to a double 45-70. I’m having a ball shooting extremely dangerous charging paper targets. Hey, papercuts hurt like the dickens!

But one of our Egg Shooting fraternity has an amazing example of the Double Rifle genre. A Double 500 Nitro Express. And he offered to bring it to the shoot and let me fire a couple of barrels. To say the rifle is a piece of art would be an understatement. It is a 1904 Holland and Holland with the most perfect wood, fit and finish and delicate engraving I’d ever seen.

I got to shoot a charging 1 gallon milk jug. That milk jug won’t be bothering any folks from now on!

Here’s a video of the DR event…….

http://youtu.be/mWv3xUmCN6o

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWv3xUmCN6o

Man, that was great fun!