Taking a Q from the thread "Why no new leverguns develop"

[foxtrapper]

OK here I am a manufacturer [not really] Tell me what kind of levergun you want me to build that would make you go out and buy it?? What modern tech would you like to see in a new lever??

[Gobblerforge]

Centerfire cartridges?
Gobbler

[SJPrice]

How about 50 BMG. I think a BLR setup with a box magazine so you can use them modern pointy bullets. and maybe in a take down so you can take it apart to move it around.

[awp101]

Centerfire cartridges?
Gobbler

You want'em in that new fangled white powder or the tried and trued black?

I think a BLR-style mag fed .357 (or .41, .44, .45) carbine would be interesting. Bringing back some of the older calibers (7x57, .257 Roberts, 6.5x55, etc) as well as adding non-standard lever calibers like the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC, etc would be something to consider as well.

In the totally useless but way cool category would be a semi-auto where you chambered the first round with a lever instead of a charging handle.

[SJPrice]

In the totally useless but way cool category would be a semi-auto where you chambered the first round with a lever instead of a charging handle.

Kind of a BLRBAR. Falls under "things that make you go Hmmmm"

[awp101]

I wasn't thinking in those terms, but now that you mention it...

[Old Ironsights]

Receiver: Savage 99C, updated metallurgy, revised magazine design (so it could take one or another milsurp .308 box mag), takedown.

Then you can take your pick of barrels - .308, .358. .243 or 7.62x39

[olyinaz]

I wouldn't mind it if FN simply redesigned the BLR for a more traditional look. You know, round trigger hole, normal shape to the lever in either straight or pistol grip, normal looking wood (not that 1970s glossy Browing stuff), normal shaped stocks, etc. I love the technology of the BLR but I just can't get past how ugly the dang thing is. A Winchester 1895, by comparison, shoots pointy bullets in great calibers like .30-06 but it doesn't look like ca ca.

If you think about it, the bolt carrier of an AR-15 would only need to be very slightly modified to work in a lever gun. A design that utilizes AR barrels and the AR bolt carrier group could be a very intriguing lever gun design if done well.

Best,
Oly

[J Miller]

So far Old Ironsights idea is the only one that even remotely makes sense to me. All the others have been nonsensical to me.

I guess I'm too much of a traditionalist. I like the traditional Winchester / Marlin designs, and I like the Savage 99s. But I do not like the Winchester 88 or the BLR or the other lever actuated bolt action rifles. They are a contradiction of function.

I'd be thrilled to buy a new lever gun but not if it has any tactical junk on it. No red eye dots, No lasers, No picaninny rails, No scout scopes, none of that stuff.
I don't mind if there is a hole or two for mounts, but any lever gun I buy ABSOLUTELY MUST have iron sights.

Nother words I want a brandy new Mdl 94 Winchester.

Joe

[adirondakjack]

It's an exercize in futility largely due to cost and the ability to do enough volume to make such a venture pay. Bolt guns are cheaper to make, semis appeal to a broader audience, so that leave GOOD, new levergun designs as financial losers at any price point that would attract enough sales. Marlin was broke before big green took em on........... So what has Remginton brought us that is new? A tacti-cool weather-friendly rehash of the established design, hoping to stretch to the tacticool, all-weather gun buying market..... To ask for anything more traditional would be tantimount to asking Chevy to bring back the rear wheel drive Caprice. Not enough dinosaurs will buy em......

[earlmck]

Big Horn Armory's model 89 (upsized m92) is getting real close to being a "gotcha" for me. Only thing is, I don't want it in 500 S&W. I'm thinking it'd be the ideal platform for the "Benchrest" series of cartridges. So give me that m89 in a 22 Benchrest and I might have to fork up the $$

Yeah, I know that somebody has to come up with a "gummy-tip" bullet in order to sell these to a public that has been told by 5 generations of gun-writers they can't shoot pointy bullets in tubular magazines. Big deal -- the "gummy" technology is here. Meanwhile I'm convinced those gunwriters are fulla' horsepucky and happen to have 2000 nice 55gr. Sierras that don't have a good use since grandkid #2 claimed my .223.

And Marlin will sell me some 336s when they get around to necking their ME series on down to 6mm and get their quality issues ironed out.

Us levergunners have way more neat stuff to drool over these days than we did back in the '60s. Thanks to the CASS folks, I'm sure. You're not going to get any whining out of me: there are still lots more great levers out there than I have $$.

[gak]

I'd like to see USFA (or somebody who won't "safety" it) build a bona-fide Pre-War Win 94--make that "1894"--carbine and round/octagonal rifle, and Marlin to slim their stocks to original 1893 levels. On the 94, Chiappa has the stock and sights down pat already (from the 92 Carbine) but I'd still ideally like to a gen-u-wine made in USA model by somene that'd do it right.

I realize these things are hardly "new development," but would be dandy nevertheless.

[tomtex]

I want a box magazine lever gun , for hand gun ammo,as well as 7.62x39,and other military types.

[wildcatfan]

How about a simple 45-70 with 24in barrel and full length tube, that will feed reliably. curved, buttstock without pistol grip, half octagonal half round (or full octagonal), Nice wood, case hardened receiver and forearm cap. Did i mention feed reliably. Be nice to be able to buy the gun for less than a months pay.
Marlin used to make one (Cowboy), and may again someday, but with all of their problems (reported) lately be nice to have some competition.
Suggested same to Rossi after taking delivery of 44mag from them.

I bought a lever action to complement my bolt actions. In my opinion a lever action chambered in one of the traditional bolt action calibers would leave a bit to be desired. Accuracy would suffer, and to safely take advantage of the better long range bullets a stacked type magazine would be necessary, which would limit the number of rounds to somewhere around 5 or so. Same as abolt action.

Short barreled bolt actons are available, so a lever action chambered in the same caliber would probably be a losing proposition.

I bought my lever actions because they chambered the rounds I wanted to hunt woods with (44mag) or plink (357/38).
When I hunt anywhere I can see more than 100yds its either 300wsm or 270.

If the post was asking for fantasy picks I'd still go back to the first part of my post but add mix of blackened stainless barrel on case hardened receiver. Guess I'd be pretty easy to please

[J Miller]

This is just my opinion you understand, but to my way of thinking the best compromise between modern calibers with a box magazine, and a traditional lever gun was designed and sold by Winchester 115 years ago.
The Mdl 1895. Using modern steel it would be able to handle the current modern ammo and look right doing it.

There, problem solved.
foxtrapper, get busy now.

Joe

[Ray Newman]

See what adirondakjack wrote.

[tman]

Old style saddlering carbines. No CS safety, no angle-eject, no rebounding hammer. Chamber it in the .338 Marlin and the 450 Marlin. Please

[Griff]

The only thing that'd have made me break my vow to not buy a Win 94AE or a cross bolt Marlin 336; a rifle such as the Legacy or Cowboy chambered in .32-40.

But AJ is right.

[1894cfan]

How about a new/original tooling of the Browning/Winchester 1894? I've got a '41 94 that feels like it is as tight as the day it was made, and a '77 94 that is so sloppy that it feels like a hot knife through butter. I'm not complaining about the '77 94, I mean it still locks up tight and would be what I would like to have in hand if coming up against a grizzly, it's that slick. But still, having a NEW one the way Winchester first made them would REALLY be nice.

[piller]

A box magazine sort of like Ruger's magazine for the 10-22 and some calibers such as the .308 or .375 H&H would be interesting.

[TMair]

I would like to see a "new" Winchester 71 chambered in 348 AI, but with a little beefier action to handle more pressure, be able to shoot a 200 Gr. bullet at 2800-2900 FPS, with a longer throte to handle Hornady's flex tip bullet with a longer ogive for better stabolization, when they make it!
Terry

[TMair]

Big Horn Armory's model 89 (upsized m92) is getting real close to being a "gotcha" for me. Only thing is, I don't want it in 500 S&W. I'm thinking it'd be the ideal platform for the "Benchrest" series of cartridges. So give me that m89 in a 22 Benchrest and I might have to fork up the $$ .

Personily I like the idea of the 500 S&W, just not sure I like it $2K worth.
Terry

[AJMD429]

Receiver: Savage 99C, updated metallurgy, revised magazine design (so it could take one or another milsurp .308 box mag), takedown. Then you can take your pick of barrels - .308, .358. .243 or 7.62x39

YEP...! Or if the Ruger '96' series did the same, even.

Big Horn Armory's model 89 (upsized m92) is getting real close to being a "gotcha" for me.

And Marlin will sell me some 336s when they get around to necking their ME series on down to 6mm and get their quality issues ironed out.

Us levergunners have way more neat stuff to drool over these days than we did back in the '60s. Thanks to the CASS folks, I'm sure. You're not going to get any whining out of me: there are still lots more great levers out there than I have $$.

Agreed on all points. 6mm Remington is close to a 'do-it-all' round except for dangerous game.

We have MORE good choices than our brethren of 50-100 years ago, who had only a few basic designs to pick from (which are nearly all still around on the used and reproduction market).

In my opinion a lever action chambered in one of the traditional bolt action calibers would leave a bit to be desired. Accuracy would suffer, and to safely take advantage of the better long range bullets a stacked type magazine would be necessary, which would limit the number of rounds to somewhere around 5 or so. Same as abolt action.

Not sure if 'accuracy' of good leverguns ever gets worse than any of us can do shooting other than off-the-bench. Maybe 1.5" MOA vs. 0.75" but there is no way that will affect my practical hunting/plinking/fighting accuracy. If I want ultimate target-shooting accuracy, I will not 'settle' for even a bolt-gun that does 0.75" with factory and 0.35" with handloads, but will get me a rail-gun weighing 50 lbs., and be upset if I get 0.2" vs. 0.1". It's all a matter of degree.

OVERALL, I think the 'niche' of a levergun is a PRACTICAL field-gun, able to shoot with good hunting-accuracy, but having potential home-defense firepower. NOT dependent on lots of technical gadgetry, but being able to USE it when needed; that's why I made my "Night Scout" levergun(s). They can put up to ten shots downrange quickly, in 2 MOA or so, with decent lethality at 50-100 yards, and do it at night if needed, all without looking 'frightening' to hoplophobes, costing lots of money for fancy ammo, or depending on a specific load for safe or reliable function.

Bolt guns will have an edge on accuracy and super-powerful cartridges, and Semiautos will have an edge on sheer firepower, and sometimes accuracy, but seldom will I really need (I didn't say 'want' ) anything more than my levergun can offer.

I'd like to see a manufacturer offer THIS:

• A rifle-length levergun in .460 S&W, and .6mm Remington or .308 Win, with a box-magazine, since capacity of 4 rounds or so would suffice in these rounds anyway, and you could use pointy bullets in the bottlenecks.
  
  A carbine-length levergun in .454 Casull, and .357 Mag, .327 Fed Mag, or .30 Carbine, with a tubular magazine, since these rounds would typically use 'pistol' bullets anyway, and higher capacity would be desireable.

[Pete44ru]

A (re-engineered) stainless steel .22 Mag Marlin Model 39a.

A 16"- barreled, stainless Ruger BearCat, with permanently-attached, under-folding, cast aluminum shoulder stock, aka Ruger Pack Rifle or Bicycle Rifle
.

[Old Ironsights]

...
I'd like to see a manufacturer offer THIS:

A rifle-length levergun in .308 Win, with a box-magazine, since capacity of 4 rounds or so would suffice in these rounds anyway, and you could use pointy bullets in the bottlenecks.

BLR

Savage 99C

Winchester 88

Finnwolf

[TomD]

A real stopping rifle. More power than a 45-70. And made really reliable. Possibly stronger or integral tube. Controlled feed. stronger stock attachment Something to shut the guys in the double gun forum up. A factory Marlin in 50 AK would be a start. Express Sights.

[Pete44ru]

A real stopping rifle. More power than a 45-70. And made really reliable. Possibly stronger or integral tube. Controlled feed. stronger stock attachment Something to shut the guys in the double gun forum up. A factory Marlin in 50 AK would be a start. Express Sights.

Well, Tom, Yer wish was granted, a couple of years ago by Doug Turnbull - The .475 Turnbull Levergun;

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=20788

I hope you have deep pockets, though...................

.

[AJMD429]

A 16"- barreled, stainless Ruger BearCat, with permanently-attached, under-folding, cast aluminum shoulder stock, aka Ruger Pack Rifle or Bicycle Rifle.

Maybe the very slightly-larger Single-Six action would be nice, to enable .22 WMR useage...

[Bigahh]

Any BLR or Marlin with a heavier Contour barrel ! Im fed up with pencil barrels ! Just a 20" Barreled BLR in 308 or 358 with a Magnum countour Barrel. I said 5 years ago I would wait until im 50, and then most of my Levers will be sold to build the Bolt Gun I really want. 3 years to go. That gives me time to think about which of the 2 Calibers I really want !

[TomD]

I think the Turnbull exercise got one out of three parts down. The one being the Cartridge which was designed to be within conventional parameters. The second part is the mechanical orientation, where the action and rifle have all/most of the attributes of a world class stopping rifle. Controlled feed and massive extraction being important capabilities there. The early history of bolt actions was associated with military rifle development, so these actions have a head start in that regard. But even with the bolts, a series of features from different models has become the norm for the top end rifle today. For decades you could hardly find a modern rifle with controlled feed, but there are many semi custom and factory rifles with some of these features today. The 1886 that Turnbull builds on could probably be improved. The 1895, is probably something of an improvement, but doesn't have the look I would want. Other features like a stainless option for those of us who live in boats and under the clouds would be nice. And something between the Turnbull price of 3K plus and the Guide Gun would be part 3, not a custom only gun. I always think that the fact the Guide Gun is so popular shows that there is a market, but that may be wrong, the market in the Guide Gun may be for a 45-70 as much or moreso than the stopping rifle. Big Horn Armory's 50 cal, seems also to be this kind of thing, though well short, but I think they are working in the same area of appeal.

But yeah, if one just wanted to take off to Africa with a lever gun, the Turnbull would be the easy way to do it.

[TMair]

Any BLR or Marlin with a heavier Contour barrel ! Im fed up with pencil barrels ! Just a 20" Barreled BLR in 308 or 358 with a Magnum countour Barrel. I said 5 years ago I would wait until im 50, and then most of my Levers will be sold to build the Bolt Gun I really want. 3 years to go. That gives me time to think about which of the 2 Calibers I really want !

Not to hijack the thread but, tell us what you have on your mind!
Terry

[Bigahh]

Not to hijack the thread but, tell us what you have on your mind!

I own a Remington Model 673 Bolt action Guide Rifle. Its just a Model 7 with a Rib, and open sights. I can easily hit a clay bird at 100 yards with it free hand, and I have a ton of trouble holding my Levers steady to hit the Clay Bird. My Marlin 336 isnt bad, but not like the 673. My perfect Rifle for Hunting in my Neck of the woods in a tree stand is a lever. I love my BLR, but it is really Light up front. The gun shoots under an inch all day long off a Bench, but not free hand. If Browning came out with a BLR that has a 20" Heavy contour barrel, a Varmint Bull barrel even, and charged 2K for it, I would have one today ! I am thinking the new Marlin XLR's have a heavier Barrel then the BLR's, but in my book they need to work out some problems before I will go down that road. I know a BLR pretty much cannot be re-barreled, but maybe a Marlin can. I even thought about taking a Dremel, and opening up the forearm on the BLR to add some weight to the very front of the forearm, but there isnt much room there.

[tomtex]

Why not a 762X39 BLR ,To much customer demand for it?

[86er]

Winchester 1895 style with Angle Eject
Standard Length (30-06 length, and I want a 375 Ruger) and Short Action (308 length and I want a 7mm-08)
Integral Scope Mounts, comes with rings
Recoil Pad
No Safety, half cock
sights on barrel
$1500-$1800 each
Where do I send the check?

[KCSO]

I think Old Ironsights nailed it... the folks buying lever guns today don't want something NEW they want something OLD that they can afford to buy. Ruger came out with the 22 caliber lever gun and it was a flop if they had brought back the 99 they would still be selling them.

So... I want a M94 Winchester in 32-40 with NO goofy rebounding hammer and cross bolt safety. With ladder sights and a tapered octogon barrel. But I would settle for a Savage 99 in 38-55.

[Old Ironsights]

I actually LIKED the Ruger 96/22. I'd still have it if I hadn't needed to sell some stuff to move.