I need a small loan

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Mike D.
***Rock Star***
Posts: 4234
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Northern CA

I need a small loan

Post by Mike D. »

If I passed the hat do you think it would suffice? :lol:
The "Holy Grail" of 1886 Winchesters. Sorry, but someone more "techie" than I will have to show the photos.
RIA Auction, 20, 21, 22 May
Lot #: 3006 Estimated Price: $75,000 - $125,000

Serial #: 149493 Manufacturer: Winchester
Model: 1886-Carbine Type: Carbine
Gauge: 50 Catalog Page: 126
Barrel Length: 22 inch round Finish: blue
Grip: N/A Stock: walnut checkered
Condition Rating:
Description: This extraordinary Semi-Deluxe Winchester Model 1886 Saddle Ring Carbine was manufactured in 1909 and chambered for the .50 Express cartridge. The carbine is fitted with a special order pistol grip stock with shotgun butt. The stock and forearm are both straight grain walnut with a low-luster varnish finish and checkered panels. The black hard rubber buttplate is checkered and embossed with the round, "WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS", logo. The pistol grip has a black hard rubber cap embossed, "WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS. The barrel is fitted with a standard carbine post front sight with nickel-silver blade and a special order, three leaf, "WINCHESTER EXPRESS, rear sight. The left side of the receiver has a special order saddle ring. The barrel, magazine, barrel bands and receiver are blued; the hammer and loading lever have a color casehardened finish. The top of the barrel is roll-stamped with the two-line legend: "-MANUFACTURED BY THE- / -WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS CO. NEW HAVEN CONN U.S.A.-" with arrows at the end of each line. The oval, Winchester "W/P" proofmark and the caliber designation "50 EX" are roll-stamped on the top of the barrel between the rear sight and the receiver. The "W/P" proofmark is stamped on the top of the receiver. The upper receiver tang is roll-stamped: "MODEL 1886 / -WINCHESTER- / TRADE MARK REG. In U.S. PAT. OFF." in three lines. The two line, 1884/1885 patent dates and the serial number, "149493" are located on the lower receiver tang. On page 333 of "THE WINCHESTER BOOK" author George Madis described a Model 1886 Carbine with shotgun butt, pistol grip and special order sights. Madis stated that any carbine with one special order feature is rare and that a Model 1886 Carbine with shotgun butt, pistol grip and special order sights is in "the rarest of the rare class". The description noted: "A shotgun butt and pistol grip are among the greatest rarities on any carbine, especially the 86. We find that comparatively few Model 86 carbines were made and an even less number had any special features". This carbine has a shotgun butt, pistol grip, special order Winchester Express Rear Sight and is chambered for the rare and very desirable .50 Winchester Express cartridge.
Condition: Excellent overall with of 97% plus the original blue finish. The barrel and magazine retain nearly all the blue finish with some minor edge wear on the muzzle and end of the magazine. The receiver has some very minor edge wear barely noticeable and scattered age spots and some contact marks from the saddle ring on the left side. The hammer and loading lever retains more than 95% of the vivid casehardened finish. The bore is bright. The stock and forearm are both in excellent condition. The checkered panels are crisp. Nearly all of the varnish finish is intact; handling wear is minimal. This is an exceptional example of an extremely rare Model 1886 Express Semi-Deluxe Carbine with special order pistol grip stock, shotgun butt and express sights. This is one of the rarest variations of the Model 1886 Winchester. This rare, high condition, Model 1886 Carbine would be a stand-out piece in the most advanced Winchester collection.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
pokey
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2704
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:19 pm
Location: La center, wa.

Re: I need a small loan

Post by pokey »

well and truly, a rich man's game.
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

"BECAUSE I CAN"
User avatar
Rimfire McNutjob
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3158
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sanford, FL.

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

Nice ... a 50 carbine. So we know at least one person knew how to order up a serious Winchester back at the turn of the century.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
User avatar
claybob86
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1907
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:41 pm

Re: I need a small loan

Post by claybob86 »

"...barely noticeable scattered age spots..." :lol: 97%? I know that's a very nice piece, and I'm no expert at grading guns, but the description sounds a little optimistic to me. I wouldn't pay a dime over 50K for it!
Have you hugged your rifle today?
User avatar
Rimfire McNutjob
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3158
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sanford, FL.

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

I'm holding out for a 50 ELTD. Not knowing, of course, if they even made any.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
User avatar
Mike D.
***Rock Star***
Posts: 4234
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Northern CA

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Mike D. »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:I'm holding out for a 50 ELTD. Not knowing, of course, if they even made any.


Oh Yes, they certainly did. I looked at a 1919 built .50EX ELTD that was offered for $24,000 last fall. That was the last year for the .45-90 and .50-110 1886s. The gun, even though it wouldn't "letter", was right as rain and very clean. Way too much for my thin wallet. I saw two more of them at Reno in November and both were not as nice as the first one.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Rimfire McNutjob
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3158
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sanford, FL.

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

This one is similar and on consignment at Turnbull's. It's got a carbine stock and buttplate instead of the PG and SGB on the original at RIA. Also, it's restored and not untouched. Probably a steal at $18,500 though.

Notice that it's got the same express sight as the original at RIA. I wonder if that sight was standard on 1886 carbines in 50 EX for some reason.

I happened across this Turnbull restoration as I was scanning GunsInternational to see if that 50 EX ELTD was still listed up there for $25k. It's been quite a while since I looked.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
antilley
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:02 pm
Location: Fort Mill, SC

Re: I need a small loan

Post by antilley »

Mike D. I am new to the forum ... but, enjoy your posts about what is rare and what is not rare....

So i have to ask ... is it reasonable for this seller to use the word 'Rare' in the description? :wink:
User avatar
Mike D.
***Rock Star***
Posts: 4234
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Northern CA

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Mike D. »

antilley wrote:Mike D. I am new to the forum ... but, enjoy your posts about what is rare and what is not rare....

So i have to ask ... is it reasonable for this seller to use the word 'Rare' in the description? :wink:
Absolutely, with capitals. EXTREMELY RARE would be correct. :)
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Blaine
Posting leader...
Posts: 30495
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Still Deciding

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Blaine »

I'll kick in fifty bucks for a receiver screw :wink:
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First

Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
rangerider7
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2427
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:37 pm
Location: Texas

Re: I need a small loan

Post by rangerider7 »

My, My, My. :shock:
"That'll Be The Day"
User avatar
Mike D.
***Rock Star***
Posts: 4234
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Northern CA

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Mike D. »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:This one is similar and on consignment at Turnbull's. It's got a carbine stock and buttplate instead of the PG and SGB on the original at RIA. Also, it's restored and not untouched. Probably a steal at $18,500 though.

Notice that it's got the same express sight as the original at RIA. I wonder if that sight was standard on 1886 carbines in 50 EX for some reason.

I happened across this Turnbull restoration as I was scanning GunsInternational to see if that 50 EX ELTD was still listed up there for $25k. It's been quite a while since I looked.
The gun sold, Rhim. I don't know the final price, but suspect that it was in the $22K range. There was an original .50EX carbine at Reno last time I was there. It was nice, used and not abused, maybe a conservative 65% and priced at $14,500. When compared to Turnbull's "polished penny" it was a fair price. Always leave proper guns original. I have no idea what the circumstances were on the resto, or the reason why, but feel that even a less than 50% condition is better than redone. :|

The barrel on the RIA gun isn't marked Nickel Steel but it's a good chance that the bottom is stamped C.N.S or I.N.S. or M.N.S. Late, BP caliber, guns were not always marked on the barrel below the rear sight. Only ELs always had this had the marking on the barrel side. No ELs were made with soft steel barrels, they were all for smokeless powder and all had the little ramp front sight. :)
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Rimfire McNutjob
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3158
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sanford, FL.

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

Mike D. wrote:The barrel on the RIA gun isn't marked Nickel Steel but it's a good chance that the bottom is stamped C.N.S or I.N.S. or M.N.S. Late, BP caliber, guns were not always marked on the barrel below the rear sight. Only ELs always had this had the marking on the barrel side. No ELs were made with soft steel barrels, they were all for smokeless powder and all had the little ramp front sight. :)
I know M.N.S. is Midvale Nickel Steel, but I'm not familiar with the other two. What do the 'C' and 'I' stand for in C.N.S. and I.N.S. if you don't mind educating us all a bit?
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 18735
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside

Re: I need a small loan

Post by Sixgun »

Mike,
I had my dirty little hands on that gun. I did not actually handle it, but lightly stroked it. :D RIA had a mess of guns at the Sunnybrooke Antique show a month or two ago that they were displaying. (the show where I snagged serial # 58 Colt Lightning) The 86 SRC was the first one on the rack. It was the real deal and looked like it was made yesterday but it did not look like it was made yesterday----yes, that makes sense----As you know, you gotta have an eye for these things :wink: RIA also had an 1876, other 1886's, a few sidehammer Sharps, single action Colts, and others all in the same condition.----------Sixgun
1st. Gen. Colt SAA’s, 1878 D.A.45 and a 38-55 Marlin TD

Image
Post Reply