IMR 4227 for 32-20, my head hurts!

[Canuck Bob]

I settled on 4227 for my first powder for the 32-20 long barrel rifle. I then discovered the confusion surrounding old/new H/IMR 4227. IMR 4227 is priced right and meets my needs well enough to purchase a pound.

When reading data from Ken Waters and Paco which 4227 is the new stuff? There seems about a dozen versions of the 4227 tale. Hodgdon phased out H4227 because it was so close to IMR 4227. Then they phased out Canadian IMR 4227 and replaced it with ADI Australian 4227 formulation which is the same as the new but discontinued H4227 Extreme formulation. Was this an Act of Canadian Parliament or the US Senate, sure reads like one!

I would be very happy if the current stuff was based on the Extreme formula because it has good temperature stability. A good thing for Canada and the Australian bush for that matter.

[earlmck]

Dang, Canuck, I had no idea old 4227 had such an interesting story. I used to use quite a lot of it and my old rifles didn't notice the switch from H4227 to IMR4227, although my pocket book did at the time. But since I discovered how much nicer H110 meters, and now we have "Lil' gun" too, 4227 hasn't got much use here. I just looked at my last can of IMR4227 and it says I paid $7.48 for it, so it must be fairly old stuff. Anyway, sorry I'm no help at all, but I just wanted to thank you for bringing up an interesting reloading question.

[Canuck Bob]

Lil'Gun seems like a dandy powder. Just never tracked down any data for the 32-20.

[earlmck]

I've just started playing with the 32-20 so don't have any experience yet. I tried a mold that put out a .311 bullet and it didn't do well in my .312 barrel, so ordered a Ranch Dog .313 mold. Unfortunately it casts up about .317, so I'm not sure it is going to be a big help -- looks pretty "scrunched" by the time I size it down to .313.

Anyway, Ranch Dog shows a batch of max loads for a number of different powders for their .313-115 grain bullet. They show Lil'Gun as the highest velocity at 14.9 grains for 2093 fps. WW296 and H110 are close behind, using 15.1 grains. For some reason they don't show 4227 in any iteration, and it has to also be a top powder for this cartridge as you already figured out. All this data is on their web site.

[the telegraphist]

The ADI powder you mentioned is known here as AR2205. Hodgdon now sells in the states as H4227, it is not temperature variant and remains totally stable over a whole range of ambient temperatures as does all ADI powders. For the 32/20 start with 10g with a 115g projectile and work up slowly to 13 thats a cast projectile. It in Australia is known as a somewhat dirty powder and I have never had any great results with it. Much prefer Unique and 2400 in the 32/20.

Its not greatly favoured amongst reloaders here. Just seems to be something missing.

[Tycer]

I like LG in the 32/20. 8gr is good for my antiques.

[coyote nose]

As an aside, here is a little trivia about IMR 4227 (since we are getting a history lesson about this powder on this thread I felt it would not be out of place). Being a Apollo space buff, in my readings I occasionally come across stuff about the Shuttle. I tend to read hardware articles and one article read early in the shuttle program was talking about what was called "initiators" that are used to ignite the solid rocket boosters. There was a picture of one of them which was shaped similiar to shotgun primers but were MUCH bigger. Next to it was a one pound can of IMR 4227! The article explained that the initiator was filled with the powder and that the powder was ignited electronically and fed a hot flame into the solid rocket propellent. At the time I was reading this I was only reloading for one gun, a Model 43 Winchester in 22 Hornet and IMR 4227 was the powder of choice for me, I thought it was neat and here 30 years later it popped into my head again! Hope y'all find this interesting...sorry it didnt help clear up any confusion about this powder.

[Gobblerforge]

I too am a fan of IMR4227. I have reloaded 22 Hornet, 38WCF 410 shotgun and 8mm Mouser with it. If your into shooting cast, then there is probably a load for you for almost any caliber.
Gobbler

[jd45]

Bob, you might try talking to Mike Daly at Hodgdon. I'm sure he can give you the straight skinney on the 4227s. I used to know their whole number, now all I can remember is their area code, (913) but you can get it, or their email address from their website. jd45

[KirkD]

When I develop a load, I like to always chronograph it to see how my speeds correspond to the published velocities. I have found that IMR 4227 loads listed in tables can be way off if the loads are old, such as in Pet Loads, for some cartridges. IMR 4227 is a good powder for the 32-20 but it is awful in larger capacity cases where it is very position sensitive. I find that my chrono readings for 5744 are virtually identical to the same load with IMR 4227, but 5744 is much less position sensitive that IMR 4227. For that reason, I do not use IMR 4227 anymore. Actually, most of my loads for the old BP cartridges are done with 2400 now.

[Hobie]

IMR 4227 is all there is now. Use a starting load to start and drive on...

[Canuck Bob]

Wow, I'm hearing more about possible dirty powder. Since mine is a takedown and I plan on using the feature I'm thinking of switching to VV N110. It gets great reviews for cleanliness and consistency and is available locally. a bit pricey but at 700 rounds per pound not really an issue. Gotta love the 32-20 for frugal shooting.

[KirkD]

My current load for IMR 4227 in my 32-20 is 9 grains under a Magma cast 115 grain bullet for 1,150 fps. For small varmints, that seems to do the job just fine. It is also a great load for youngsters to learn on. Today, I took my oldest daughter to the range and we shot my little Winchester Model 53 32-20. She calls it her favourite gun. The load we were shooting was the one I mentioned above.

[Hobie]

Wow, I'm hearing more about possible dirty powder. Since mine is a takedown and I plan on using the feature I'm thinking of switching to VV N110. It gets great reviews for cleanliness and consistency and is available locally. a bit pricey but at 700 rounds per pound not really an issue. Gotta love the 32-20 for frugal shooting.

Black is dirty, 4227 is not. Drive on.

[Canuck Bob]

Good point Hobie! Thanks for a chuckle.

[Hobie]

Good point Hobie! Thanks for a chuckle.

[Canuck Bob]

I've spent by far more time on my first pound of 32-20 powder than I've spent doing my taxes. Have I got my priorities backward guys?

Yes, I'm getting a refund and locked in hard negotiations with the family banker for shooting supplies. Obama thinks he has budget problems!!!! Barb makes the tea party look like a tea party when a dollar comes squealling from her grasp. I might add that due to her brilliance with money we have no defecit except a small mortgage. Sometimes I think we should send our wives to Ottawa and Washington, stuff would get done by next week. A filibuster would be an "in your face Buster".

[Hobie]

Amen Bob. Zero debt here as well.

[otteray]

Actually, most of my loads for the old BP cartridges are done with 2400 now.

Darn, this may create another low pressure thread, altogether!

I refer to the powder pressure stickied topic where you kinda weren't too thrilled with 2400, I thought.

I'm not trying to dispute, or to go OT, as I respect your knowledge; I'm just maybe missing something...about 2400 vs SR4759/ 5744/4227, etc. in large, straight walled cases like 45-70, 40-65 and 38-55.
I've just been using 2400 in pistol cases like 45 Colt...

Let me add (since I've been away for a spell); practical, safe reloading is a lifetime education for some of us... thanks so much to you and other guys here at Leverguns, like Terry M, Paco and the other great shootists that contribute their knowledge, for paving the way for those that are willing to listen and learn.

[KirkD]

Actually, most of my loads for the old BP cartridges are done with 2400 now.

Darn, this may create another low pressure thread, altogether!

I refer to the powder pressure stickied topic where you kinda weren't too thrilled with 2400, I thought.

I'm not trying to dispute, or to go OT, as I respect your knowledge; I'm just maybe missing something...about 2400 vs SR4759/ 5744/4227, etc. in large, straight walled cases like 45-70, 40-65 and 38-55.
I've just been using 2400 in pistol cases like 45 Colt...

I can't recall which topic that was. I did post a thread specifically on 2400 a half year or so ago, but I was positive about 2400 in that thread. Perhaps it was something to do with going for hotter loads than traditional black powder velocities. I think 2400 is a good powder to use if one is going to stick with traditional BP velocities. I do and I use it a lot for that purpose. However, if one wants hotter loads than BP velocities, then one must be careful with 2400 not to go too hot with it. 2400 gives approximately the same peak pressure as FFg for the same bullet and the same black powder velocity. That is why I like it for BP velocities.

[the telegraphist]

As per Kirk, I have a great affection for 2400 in the old lever cartridges models 73 and 92. My levers seem to thrive on this powder no matter the cartridge.
Thats from 32wcf to 44wcf. My must have powder. At present am load tuning my 92 32wcf with 115g hardcast lead projectile, and 2400 is coming in first yet again, still more work to do though. Going to the range this Sunday for further tests.