any thoughts on the uberti 1873 in 44 mag?

[rjohns94]

is it limited to light loads or full commercial loads? anyone have one? thanks

[Hobie]

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index. ... 606.0.html

[J Miller]

I just read the 3 page thread over at cascity and I'm still not convinced the idea of a .44 Mag in a 73 is good.

Our own Nate Kiowa Jones says the 73s will not stand up to continual use of .357 Mag loads. So how in the world can anybody rationally expect them to stand up the heavier bolt thrust of the .44 Mag?

Original calibers or the .45 Colt / .44 Spcl, but magnums ... not for me.
I'm not a black powder fanatic, but this is one time I think Uberti hasn't thought this thing through to the long haul.

Joe

[Charles]

I don't care what anybody else says or writes, I would not want to pull a 73 chambered for 44 mag to my check and tickle the trigger.

[olyinaz]

I don't care what anybody else says or writes, I would not want to pull a 73 chambered for 44 mag to my check and tickle the trigger.

Agreed.

Oly

[rjohns94]

my peddler has one on the shelf. how could they possibly sell one if it wasn't safe with modern loads. I"m tempted to get one.

[Grizzly Adams]

my peddler has one on the shelf. how could they possibly sell one if it wasn't safe with modern loads. I"m tempted to get one.

The answer is, that they couldn't! Italian gun manufactures are subject to far stricter rules than our own. Every firearm made in Italy is proofed at a government proof house, and their standards are higher than our own.

[J Miller]

Yeah, they are proofed to CIPs proof loads. Yeah, they hold them.
But, my concern is down the road after lots of rounds, how are they going to hold up to the pressure and battering? My Uberti Cattleman was proofed with a CIPs proof load, but I sure wouldn't shoot a steady diet of them through it expecting it to hold up.

Mike,
Go buy the rifle, and come back in 1000, 2000, etc and do a extended report for us.
Seriously I've yet to hear or read of anybody who has bought one in .44 Mag and used it. Not one report.

Joe

[kaschi]

The thought of a 44 Mag in a 73 does not sound good to me. Get one in a 92 and you can't go wrong.

[Grizzly Adams]

Seriously I've yet to hear or read of anybody who has bought one in .44 Mag and used it. Not one report.

Joe

Well, they are just beginning to show up at dealers, so it's early for any reports. In any case, it makes for some great campfire discussion!

[Griff]

While I'm sure that Nate sees many more '73s than I have... any stretch in the receiver with .357s would have to be after many, many over the top loadings... not likely to be just factory loads. I, myself, have only heard of '66s that have developed elongated frames... and that was after thousands of rounds of .38Spl +Ps. Unfornately, a friend of mine bought a fine example of that rifle, not knowing it's history. Headspace was a thing of the past. 3 or 5 gunsmiths later, it sits in his safe as a reminder that one should NOT buy before checking. Luckily, this was many, many years ago and he wasn't out a fortune.

But, I'm still firmly in the camp that sez a .44Mag in a '73 ain't necessarily a desired item. I'll stick with my .45Colts, thank you very much!

[.45colt]

I know for Me that the '73 would last along time in .44mag. with the short 19" barrel and all of the drop in the stock, fullhouse .44 loads would be ugly. I could better understand it in the 24" sporting rifle.

[olyinaz]

my peddler has one on the shelf. how could they possibly sell one if it wasn't safe with modern loads. I"m tempted to get one.

I'm quite sure it's safe! I just don't see the need or logic. That said, if a person were to feed one a steady diet of nice mild hand loads it would probably be a dandy rifle.

Best,
Oly

[J Miller]

Oly,

Here's the thing as far as I can see; we who hand load are in the minority. The 73 action is length critical. They probably will not feed .44 Spcls reliably, so those who do not hand load will be using the Walmart white box or other cheep stuff. I doubt that most shooters would go to all the trouble to even look for CAS type ammo. Granted the stock design may cause these folks to think twice but non the less most will feed these things full power .44 Magnum loads. After all, why buy a .44 Magnum rifle then feed it light loads? This gun is not geared to the CAS crowd so there is my concern. How well will this gun hold up to full power loads in the long run? That's all that concerns me.

Myself, well if I somehow came across one of these things and it came home with me, I'd feed it 44-40 level loads and never worry about it. But that's just me.

Joe

[adirondakjack]

Oly,

Here's the thing as far as I can see; we who hand load are in the minority. The 73 action is length critical. They probably will not feed .44 Spcls reliably, so those who do not hand load will be using the Walmart white box or other cheep stuff. I doubt that most shooters would go to all the trouble to even look for CAS type ammo. Granted the stock design may cause these folks to think twice but non the less most will feed these things full power .44 Magnum loads. After all, why buy a .44 Magnum rifle then feed it light loads? This gun is not geared to the CAS crowd so there is my concern. How well will this gun hold up to full power loads in the long run? That's all that concerns me.

Myself, well if I somehow came across one of these things and it came home with me, I'd feed it 44-40 level loads and never worry about it. But that's just me.

Joe

That right there is exactly the issue. Both the OAL issue and the ammo availability issue. MANY big box stores (which sell half or more of the ammo in the country) don't even carry ANY .44 specials, and if they do, they're SWCs with the Keith style shoulder that give any levergun not perfectly timed fits. And yes, the 73, despite "straight in" feeding is not immune to issues with carrier timing that make em stutter with SWCs. And when they stutter, Joe Ignoramus reefs on the lever and makes the timing even worse.....

The obvious MARKETING issue is to get a gun out there that works with ammo which would be closer to 1.6" OAL and is actually available in most big box stores....

Now to my mind, the .44 maggie is a great CAS round, suffering none of the finicky issues associated with handloading .44-40, and with a bit of massaging to the carrier and proper bullet selection, it'd feed specials fine. Swap out the carrier for my Cowboy Carrier, and it'd feed .44 Russians, a beautiful period-keerect cartridge.....

[COSteve]

I asked Nate about it last year and he said that he'd talked to the Uberti folks at one of the SHOT shows a couple of years ago and the reason it has a blued receiver is that it's made from a stronger steel than their std 1873s. When I asked him if he thought it would hold together he reminded me that he doesn't think the 357mag version is strong enough so the 44mag version will be ................. well, we'll have to see.

[adirondakjack]

I asked Nate about it last year and he said that he'd talked to the Uberti folks at one of the SHOT shows a couple of years ago and the reason it has a blued receiver is that it's made from a stronger steel than their std 1873s. When I asked him if he thought it would hold together he reminded me that he doesn't think the 357mag version is strong enough so the 44mag version will be ................. well, we'll have to see.

I had the same initial reaction, and yes, I still think longevity with full house loads might tend to make ME shy away for a gun I was gonna shoot a LOT of .44 mag out of. That said, with the price of factory fodder today, how many of these guns will ever see even 500 rounds of actual .44 mag loads? (we who reload sometimes forget how small a fraction of the market we really are)

[the telegraphist]

I dont think I wanna go there. My Uberti 73 in 44-40 is a peach. Shoots great with most loads. 44Mag seems to go against the laws fo physics for this style of action. Even though the links and not the pins take the stress if set-up correctly. How soon would the links stress and deform under these pressures. Then the pins start taking the brunt. Not for me sir unless there is a new secret regarding the steel in the linkage. Time will tell I guess.

[COSteve]

Deleted

[Terry Murbach]

Maybe a bit of reminding might help. Bolt thrust is the force that loosens up actions and the force that the 1873 design's toggle link action is sensitive to. Note the bolt thrust for the original 1873 calibers, 22lr, 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40 in my chart below and compare them to the bolt thrust for the modern 357mag and 45Colt+P that people shoot in the Uberti clones.

If Nate's assessment that the Uberti 1873 clone is fed a steady diet of 357mag ammo, the action will eventually loosen up is true. Even considering their 44mag's stronger frame, what do you think will happen to it with a steady diet of 44mag considering that they produce a 50% higher bolt thrust than either the 357mag or 45Colt+P?

THANKS STEVE, THIS IS INDEED WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD ON THIS DISCUSSION.
NOW, I MIGHT BE WRONG BUT I THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE TOO LOW; TOO LOW !! I THINK THIS BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE USED RIM DIAMETER [ NOT CASE DIAMETER ] TO FIGURE THE THRUST AS IT IS WHERE THE THRUST IS APPLIED TO THE BOLT. WE HAD ALWAYS FIGURED IT BEFORE WITH RIM DIAMETER BUT MAYBE SOMETHING HAS CHANGED IN THE THOUGHT PROCESSES ON THIS THAT I AM NOT AWARE OF AT THIS TIME.

AND THEN AGAIN I COULD BE T-TOTALLY WRONG....
[ I WAS WRONG ONCE IN 1966 AND HAVE NOT HEARD THE END OF THAT SUMBISCUIT YET !! }

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Maybe a bit of reminding might help. Bolt thrust is the force that loosens up actions and the force that the 1873 design's toggle link action is sensitive to. Note the bolt thrust for the original 1873 calibers, 22lr, 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40 in my chart below and compare them to the bolt thrust for the modern 357mag and 45Colt+P that people shoot in the Uberti clones.

If Nate's assessment that the Uberti 1873 clone is fed a steady diet of 357mag ammo, the action will eventually loosen up is true. Even considering their 44mag's stronger frame, what do you think will happen to it with a steady diet of 44mag considering that they produce a 50% higher bolt thrust than either the 357mag or 45Colt+P?

THANKS STEVE, THIS IS INDEED WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD ON THIS DISCUSSION.
NOW, I MIGHT BE WRONG BUT I THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE TOO LOW; TOO LOW !! I THINK THIS BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE USED RIM DIAMETER [ NOT CASE DIAMETER ] TO FIGURE THE THRUST AS IT IS WHERE THE THRUST IS APPLIED TO THE BOLT. WE HAD ALWAYS FIGURED IT BEFORE WITH RIM DIAMETER BUT MAYBE SOMETHING HAS CHANGED IN THE THOUGHT PROCESSES ON THIS THAT I AM NOT AWARE OF AT THIS TIME.

AND THEN AGAIN I COULD BE T-TOTALLY WRONG....
[ I WAS WRONG ONCE IN 1966 AND HAVE NOT HEARD THE END OF THAT SUMBISCUIT YET !! }

Also, the BT (Bolt Thrust) figure should be in Lbs and not PSI. You're taking the pressure in Pounds per Square Inch and then applying that to the number of square inches of bolt facing area ... yielding pounds of force.

On the other hand, I am always wrong ... just ask my wife.

[COSteve]

Good catch, you are correct. I used an old template I forgot to correct. My post is now updated with correction.

[adirondakjack]

The other issue besides raw bolt thrust is headspace, which may equal more battering. IF kept to .005 or less, maybe not so bad, but how many toggle links have we seen with excess headspace right off the git go, let alone after use?

To me, with full house loads, it'd be akin to an airweight +P revolver, carry a lot, shoot little.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

While I'm sure that Nate sees many more '73s than I have... any stretch in the receiver with .357s would have to be after many, many over the top loadings... not likely to be just factory loads. I, myself, have only heard of '66s that have developed elongated frames... and that was after thousands of rounds of .38Spl +Ps. Unfornately, a friend of mine bought a fine example of that rifle, not knowing it's history. Headspace was a thing of the past. 3 or 5 gunsmiths later, it sits in his safe as a reminder that one should NOT buy before checking. Luckily, this was many, many years ago and he wasn't out a fortune.

But, I'm still firmly in the camp that sez a .44Mag in a '73 ain't necessarily a desired item. I'll stick with my .45Colts, thank you very much!

I'm not too concerned with the receiver stretching either. I'm more concerned with the many small pins and link parts that have to contain that pressure over the long haul.
Even with the 357m's shoot with a kizzilion CAS 38's those parts wear and because there so many of those wear points they get loose. I know you know the more parts equals the more likely it fails prematurely.

I will admit back in the late 90's whan Rossi announced the 454 casull 92 I was skeptical. But over all they have done well proving me wrong. Who knows, this gun may prove me wrong, too.

BTW, I can fix that stretched 66. I done a few of them as well as a stretched 1860.