Marlin 444 Target Rifle

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:38 pm

I've been messing pretty hard with 444 Marlin rifles for maybe 6 years now . And have gathered a rather large accumulation of rifles in this cartridge made by Marlin . I am also a 10 year member of the Cast Bullet Association . And of course as anyone who ever read what I write/post knows I shoot cast pretty much only in lever rifles now .

So it finally came to be when I added my last 444 rifle a couple months ago that I would try and set this one up to shoot in CBA matches in the "Light Hunter" class . Guns can weigh 9 1/2 pounds , be bedded , floated and have trigger jobs as well as shoot any scope you desire .

So I changed the springs in my trigger to lessen the weight of pull a bit and make it smoother and more consistent . WHich it does I might add for the grand total of $8 . I then mounted a Leupold Vari XIII 6.5-20x with a 1/8" target dot reticle .

I decided early on that I was going to use one of four possible bullets , the Ranch Dog 432-265GC , the Ranch Dog 432-300GC , the Saeco #432 (265 grain GC FP) or the Saeco #433 (300 grain GC FP).

After testing with several powders (H322 , IMR8208 , XMR2015 , H4198 , RL-7 and H335) I pretty much whittled it down to H322 and IMR8208 with all four bullets . Now to be totally honest all four bullets shot equally well with their preferred powder charge from the two mentioned . After I saw this I kinda decided I wanted to campaign a Ranch Dog bullet as a did a few years back in lever silhouette with the Ranch Dog 311-165GC . So I cut the two Saeco bullets out of further testing . At that point I started to look into the recoil/fatigue factor . The loads I was using were warm like my hunting loads so it stood to reason I should most likely be better off with the RD 265 grainer .

And that boiled down to the RD 265 with 52 grains of H322 or 53.5 grains of IMR8208 . I had mostly been shooting for group on paper at 100 yards and not CBA score targets . So yesterday I started shooting score targets for both practice and to see where I was at in the Grand Scheme of things so to speak !

Shot a score target with the H322 yesterday that was a 35 out of possible 50 . Let me explain in a normal CBA score match you shoot two shots at 5 different bulls during a relay with a possible 100/10x . To cut back on paper and target costs I shot 5 at a bull for a possible 50/10x . So anyway my first target was shot with H322 and scored 35 not terrible but not great by any means either .
Next I shot a target with 53.5 grains of IMR8208 and got a 43/1x and to be honest I was kinda happy with that .

After that I shot another target with 8208 and got a 38 . So a decent start with plenty room for improvement . I also pretty much decided then and there to use IMR8208 .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:47 pm

Went back today and tried 4 more groups at 100 yards and got three 41's and a 37 with none in the x ring . So that would have given me and aggregate total of 158/0x out of a possible 200/10x . Again room for improvement but not bad for a pretty much stock 1968 lever action competing ina bolt action class !

After that I cleaned the rifle and headed to our silhouette range to give her a try at 200 yards .

The 1968 Target 444 at the silhouette range today !

And yesterday at the 100 yard range .

Put out a target at 200 yards with two of the CBA score bulls .
Tried a 5 shot group at 200 first holding dead on . Group was not the greatest but the center appearred to be about 6-8 inches low . So I turned the scope up 24 clicks and shot another group . This one was on target with one shot missing the bull by about an inch giving me a score of 34/0x if that one of the scoring bull had been in that would have put me over 40 atleast . Not bad but room for improvement , yeah I know sounds like a broken record . I shot another group after making some scope adjustments and the group was not centered on the target .

All in all I am seeing progress . But I think I need to shoot a couple hundred more rounds and get a bag for my bench rest made for smaller forend rifles as the gun tends to wobble a slight bit in the bag I have which was made for varmint weight barreled bolt actions and singleshots .

Perhaps I can get out to the range monday and try some more

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Range pics from yesterday and today !

The 100 yard Traditional Range that I use most of the time .

And our clubs 200 meter silhouette/ 300 yard rifle range that I use rarely anymore .

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:06 pm

That's really cool. Makes me interested in fancyin' up one of my .444's myself, instead of just lookin' at it whenever I open the gun safe...

I don't have a 200 yd. range but do have access to a 90-acre corn-field that has a decent backstop in a couple of directions, at least when the corn's cut.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:24 pm

AJMD429 wrote:That's really cool. Makes me interested in fancyin' up one of my .444's myself, instead of just lookin' at it whenever I open the gun safe...

I don't have a 200 yd. range but do have access to a 90-acre corn-field that has a decent backstop in a couple of directions, at least when the corn's cut.

Someone on the CBA forum suggested to me to reduce my loads to cut back on the recoil . Which in itself isn't a bad idea , however.......... with the slow twist Micro barrels I seem to get better accuracy when I load them on up .

And with that being said I shoot about 1,500 to 2,000 rounds a year it seems in my variouse 444's as I can't seem to keep 44 cal gas checks in my loading room .

The hardest part of this excercise is being able to shoot well from the bench without holding the forend yet using that heavy trigger pull (this rifle is about 3 1/4 pounds) . A rifle for me atleast with about a 3/4 to 1 pound pull would be optimum for paper work

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:43 pm

6pt-sika wrote: A rifle for me atleast with about a 3/4 to 1 pound pull would be optimum for paper work

Now that's the kind of "paper work" I think I like...

Are the Micro-Groove barrels the same 1:20" twist rate as the current 444's and XLR-444's?

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:56 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
6pt-sika wrote: A rifle for me atleast with about a 3/4 to 1 pound pull would be optimum for paper work
Now that's the kind of "paper work" I think I like...

Are the Micro-Groove barrels the same 1:20" twist rate as the current 444's and XLR-444's?

Micro Groove 444 barrels are 1:38" , hence my reason for needing a ballard 1:20" to shoot my 400 grain bullets !

Heaviest bullet I've been able to stabalize in the Micro 1:38" has been a a 375 grainer .

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:51 pm

Now I have to dig out my 444 and start playing with it again.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:22 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Are the Micro-Groove barrels the same 1:20" twist rate as the current 444's and XLR-444's?

I've got Bruce at BRP cutting me a two cavity mold that will have one cavity cut for the 432-375 and the other cut for the 432-400 I had him cut for me last year with the Ranch Dog style nose . However both of these will be GC and both will be hollow points . So "according" to Bruce the 375 should be down in the 360-365 range and the 400 should be 385-390 . Once I get them and get some time I'm gonna eventually see if the 400 HP will stabalize in the slow twist Micro barrels . Evem with the weight reduction the bullet may be just to darned long with to much drag . But I should be able to find out easy enough with 3-5 loaded rounds .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:26 pm

After going to the range monday , tuesday and wednesday of this week I didn't make it today . So perhaps if I can get out of bed early enough I'll give it a try in the morning around 7:30 AM

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:57 pm

Very cool! Looks like one accurate lever you got there!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:58 pm

I went back to look at my .444 XLR (the 1:20" twist gun) target and posts from when I first got it, and with factory ammo it was doing pretty well. Keep in mind my group was only at 50 yards, so is still not quite half as good as you were getting, but it was with factory ammo, and with ME shooting (that's a 3-4 MOA handicap in itself...

).

So you definitely have me thinking I need to get back into the .444 Marlin. The only thing about the XLR Marlins is that they ARE very 'ungainly' due to the longer barrels, but they come from the factory with some accurizing already done. Mine ALSO had some serious FLAWS from the factory that didn't help things much until I did some kitchen-table gunsmithing to correct them.

Some of you may have seen my post/rant on the Marlin forends back then:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=13405
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=12887

I think another FUN gun would be a Ruger No.#1 in .444 Marlin, or a more affordable Encore in .444 Marlin - so you could have a very LONG OAL and thus heavy bullets, and maybe even a 1:14 or thereabouts twist, so you could lob the biggies out at 950 fps and still have them stable. Maybe even suppress it, if you could get hold of a .44 cal suppressor (I've seen Ruger 96/44's and 77/44's and Remington 788's in .44 Mag suppressed). THAT would be a great rig for LEO's and other folks who need to deal with feral dogs & cats discretely in urban areas...

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:06 am

Howdy,

Nice piece, nice project, nice place to play!

John

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:45 am

AJMD429 wrote:
I think another FUN gun would be a Ruger No.#1 in .444 Marlin...

I've been wanting to rebarrel a #1 in 444 . Not necissarily a #1B with the long 26" pipe but rather the #1A with the 22" .

I've also been looking at the H&R Handi Rifle in 444 . I had one of those before and like an idiot sold it . I think the Handi Rifle would be an excellent choice for me to take to the Philippines and leave over there . I've also thought about getting another old 444 like the one in the picture above and take it to the Philippines for target shooting and maybe something else .

Oh by the way someone posted something about a 444 double rifle on her a year or so ago . I have a friend that usually resides in Connecticut but has a wekend/summer home here in Virginia , anyway he has a Rizziinni O/U double rifle in 444 Marlin . He siad he was gonna bring it by the shop and leave it for a couple weeks so we could take it out and shoot it a bit . One can only hope

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:18 am

If I remember my tables correctly, the heavier bullets like faster twists, my .40 cal Sharps has a 1 in 19" and likes bullets under 400 grains, and my 350grainers the best. I'd be playing with bullets in the less 300 grain class for possible best accuracy in that 1:38 barrel. But... then, what do I know? For it seems like I was right when I was 16, old folks are stupid!

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:49 am

Griff wrote:If I remember my tables correctly, the heavier bullets like faster twists, my .40 cal Sharps has a 1 in 19" and likes bullets under 400 grains, and my 350grainers the best. I'd be playing with bullets in the less 300 grain class for possible best accuracy in that 1:38 barrel. But... then, what do I know? For it seems like I was right when I was 16, old folks are stupid!

Reread what i wrote I'm using a 265 grain bullet .

But in all actuality I use bullets from 207 grains to 375 grains in the 1:38 barrels just fine .

Only thing I need the 1:20 for is the 400 grainers .

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:35 am

Ah yes, that reading comprehension thing! I saw 400 grainers... and brain shorted out!

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:43 am

The one I had, 1 in 38", was very accurate with a 312 cast but keyholed with a 362.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:34 am

Old Savage wrote:The one I had, 1 in 38", was very accurate with a 312 cast but keyholed with a 362.

When you get above 315 grains or so with the 1:38 you need to shoot a harder alloy or water quench wheelweight alloy bullets as well as shoot a .431" or larger diameter bullet . You also need to push them HARD .

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:42 pm

Thems triggers are easy to stone.

Nath.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:55 pm

Well it's looking like a friend and I are going to head to Fairfax R&G next sunday to give this rifle a try in the CBA match in the Hunter Class .

Just hope I don't embarrass myself

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:25 pm

Got out in my shop about 10AM this morning and set my mobile casting station up outside the door !

While I was waiting for the initial pot full of wheel weights to liquify I started resizing 100 of my 444 REM nickel plated cases for use at Fairfax R&G next sunday !

Got about halfway done on the 100 cases before the pot was liquified and full .

Took me maybe 6 sets of bullets in the 6 cavity Lee/Ranch Dog 432-265GC mold before the bullets were filled and wrinkle free . Then I cast for maybe 90 minutes .

Ended with 414 of the Ranch Dog 432-265GC bullets !

Took everything back inside my loading room and finished resizing and belling my 100 cases and then primed them all with CCI200 primers .

Maybe later today I'll load all 100 of the cases with RD 432-265GC bullets I already have ready and very possibly start or get done with sizing , checking and lubing the bullets I cast today .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:08 pm

Went thru and sized/lubed/checked all the bullets I cast earlier today !

First i did 100 hand picked for next sunday . Then I went thru the rest and put some for practice , some for match and discarded 8 . Match bullets were about 2/3rd's .

100 cases that have been resized , flared and primed !

My 100 match bullets with checks on waiting to get sized and lubed !

The 100 match bullets waiting to go in the case !

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:35 pm

Just in case you thought that posting three times in a row without anyone responding meant that nobody was paying attention - I've been paying rapt attention, as I just can't wait to get some .444 Marlin range-time in soon.

444Hal · Post by **444Hal** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:44 pm

You know I'm watching

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:49 pm

444Hal wrote:You know I'm watching

I think you and I have talked before on another forum

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:51 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Just in case you thought that posting three times in a row without anyone responding meant that nobody was paying attention - I've been paying rapt attention, as I just can't wait to get some .444 Marlin range-time in soon.

Nope never thought that , I look at the view total each time before I post and have an idea how many times it's been hit since the last time I was there .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:12 pm

My loading room !

To the far left you can see my main press the Ponsness Warren Metalic II with a RCBS Uniflow on top ! I also have a Redding BR powder measure to the left of the PW , to the right of the PW is a CH4D heavy press for my buddies 505 Gibbs , to the right of the CH4D in my MEC 600JR for the 10 gauge 2 7/8" shells and two the right of that is one of my Lyman 4500 lubesizers . To the right of the 4500 I have my grandfathers Craftsman drill press for use with a Forster drill press case trimmer !

Most of those ammo boxes are filled with 444 brass and ammo ! I have gotten around to a different box for each 444 rifle . So I "think" I have 25 boxes

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:29 pm

Uh... where's the computer for looking up load recipes? Just kidding... got quite a lot there in a small space. Looks so neat & tidy compared to my bench.

Good luck next week!

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:35 pm

Griff wrote:Uh... where's the computer for looking up load recipes? Just kidding... got quite a lot there in a small space. Looks so neat & tidy compared to my bench.

Good luck next week!

It "was" neater a couple months ago

We can only get dial up here at a reasonable cost and I don't have a phone jack in the shop . Otherwise I would have a laptop in there as well !

You should see a pic of the inside of my extended cab pickup , it looks more like a rolling range box with one seat

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:55 pm

6PT,very nice room,you've only got about 100times more stuff than Me. I'll show My wife so She thinks I'm normal.

. I can see why You shoot so well. one of Santas Elves is watching every move.

.Good Luck.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:07 pm

Just got back in the house !

Got my 100 rounds loaded for the match next sunday !

Thats the Ranch Dog 432-265GC bottom poured with straight wheelweights and aircooled . Then they were sized and lubed and checked in a .432" custom sizing die from Buffalo Arms . I use Thompson's Blue Angel when I can get it and thats whats on these bullets .

My cases are Remington nickel plated , all cases had been fired earlier and all were full length resized in RCBS dies . Primer pockets were all cleaned with a RCBS large primer brush , then CCI200 primers were seated with a Lee hand primer . Charges of 53.5 grains of IMR8208 were dropped from a RCBS Uniflow powder measure into the pan of my Lyman 505 powder measure and anything under was added by tapping from a cartridge case . The bullets were seated just deep enough so they slightly engrave the rifling and are easy to close the lever . Can't say this will turn out all that great but I'm gonna give it a shot !

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:10 pm

After I got finished loading I thought I might uhm rearrange a bit

Got the top of my bench a little more organized again !

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:14 pm

.45colt wrote:6PT,very nice room,you've only got about 100times more stuff than Me. I'll show My wife so She thinks I'm normal. . .

Well you also need to take into consideration that I've been at this about 30 years now (as far as the loading part is concerned) . Been hunting and shooting over 40 years .

But thanks also !

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:16 pm

Provided the weather is permiting I'm gonna hit the range first thing in the morning !

I wanna try one or two 100 yard groups , then check the scopes on the last two rifles I changed the mounts .

After that I wanna go to the silhouette range and work on my 200 yard zero and scope clicks some more

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:34 pm

6pt-sika wrote:My cases are Remington nickel plated , all cases had been fired earlier and all were full length resized in RCBS dies.

Do you prefer nickel plated cases...? If so, what are the advantages.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:33 pm

Now thats one he........heck of a reloading room!

I need a 444......no.... I want a 444

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:11 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
6pt-sika wrote:My cases are Remington nickel plated , all cases had been fired earlier and all were full length resized in RCBS dies.
Do you prefer nickel plated cases...? If so, what are the advantages.

Nope , don't prefer them . Some guy was selling 500 of these that were unfired on Gunbroker . Normal cases at Midway are about $300 for 500 cases and nickel are maybe $20 more . I got all 500 shipped for $180 so thats why i have a bunch of nickel plated cases .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:25 pm

Did the range thing this AM !

Shot the 1968 rifle first at 100 yards .

Shot a 1974 Second Model with the Mountain Molds 433-375GC bullet at 100 . Used a Weaver K2.5 with this one !

Then I shot the second of my 1971 First Models . This one has a circa 1978 Bushnell 1.5-6x with a lighted reticle . I am also shooting the Ranch Dog 432-350GC bullet in this one !

After that I shot my 444 Contender some at 50 and 100 yards .

And when I was done with the Contender I went down to the silhouette range and shot the 1968 rifle at 200 yards . With decent results .

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:59 pm

I always imagined your Contender .444 would have a 14" barrel and a heavy muzzle-brake.

Do you use 'normal' .444 Marlin loads in the Contender...?

BTW - that Bushnell scope looks like an evil sniper-scope to me...

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:08 pm

AJMD429 wrote:I always imagined your Contender .444 would have a 14" barrel and a heavy muzzle-brake.

Do you use 'normal' .444 Marlin loads in the Contender...?

BTW - that Bushnell scope looks like an evil sniper-scope to me...

This gun has a 12" barrel and was made at a shop called Marsh-Al in Idaho in 1981 .

I've been using the Lyman 429215 and RCBS 44-225GC SWC . Both of these shoot very nicely with lighter charges of H322 . And recently I've been having some luck with IMR4198 .

I tried to use the Castboolits 434-207GC in the Contender but for some reason it didn't like that little stubby bullet at all

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:11 pm

AJMD , I think I'm pretty well done with additions to my 444 acumulation other then possibly a single shot H&R to take to the Philippines .
Although I have thoughts of getting a First Model 444 with the monte carlo stock and barrel bands that needs a reblue . And then cutting the barrel to 18 3/4" , remount the front sight , reblue and possibly refinish the stock to make a sort of retro "444P" .

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:02 pm

[img][URL=http://sports.webshots.com/photo/140646 ... 2224WqCFFF[/img]
'86 Browning 100 yds, iron sights

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:01 pm

I believe the .444 cartridge is just a super accurate round.
Everyone reports great accuracy out of theirs.
Mine surprised me right off with a sub 1" group at 100yd. with the first load I tried. I need to shoot that rifle more....

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:53 am

Paul Jenkins wrote:[img]
'86 Browning 100 yds, iron sights

Impressive Target...! - [url]http://s ... 2224WqCFFF

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:28 pm

Looks like I'm heading to the range tommorrow afternoon as my gunsmith buddy wants to shoot his M1A with Hornady factory 150 SST's .

So when I got home I loaded some RD 432-265GC's with 53.5 grains of IMR8208 for my Target rifle and some Lyman 429215's with 47 grains of H322 for my Contender .

This should be a good test to see if the IMR8208 is an EXTREME powder or not as it's "supposed" to be 99 degrees tommorrow !

I gotta say this 8208 has been a big surprise to me I certainly hadn't expected it to equal or better the H322 . Matter of fact since this tartget thing got started I've burnt up about 2 1/2 pounds of IMR8208 !
We ordered powder , shot and wads today at the shop so I added an 8 pounder of IMR8208 for myself !

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:53 pm

Went to the range yesterday afternoon !

It was 97 degrees so I didn't stay to long maybe an hour which was long anough for my entire shirt to be soaked with sweat .

Shot some at 100 yards with the 444 rifle , then shot the 444 Contender at 50 and 100 yards . And again after I finished there I went and shot the rifle at 200 yards . I was having problems yesterday with barrel heat up .