OT: alternate home power source

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:35 pm

Anybody using something they can tell us about? Solar, water, or wind power?

Any info or websites that could be shared?

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:29 pm

Here's one:
http://12volt.com.au/redirect.html?a=/G ... rpage.html

It's something I'm trying to learn about.

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:33 pm

I've used a 'solar oven' in the past. Does that count?

A tin box with a grill rack. Sit it in the hot sun for about half an hour, then grill away.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:10 pm

I've had 2 solar water systems in the past, there is better info out there than I could explain. They do work great. Lacking in the wind power but some of the alt energy stores/sites have units & info.

Some other sites I've looked into, alot of good info.

Hydro power (other)
http://howto.altenergystore.com/The-Bas ... rview/a27/
http://www.microhydropower.net/link.php
http://www.microhydropower.com/

Solar (other)
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/
http://www.solarsupply.com/HomePage.htm
http://www.islandenergy.net/pvsys/index.asp

Not power but sewer alternative-
http://www.envirolet.com/enwatremsys2.html
http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html

Bunkloco

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:16 pm

Wife power?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:34 pm

don TomÃ¡s wrote:Wife power?

Watt a good idea. Most wives would be shocked and would ask wire we being made to do this.

How about alternate transportation? Like a VoltWagon pulling a mobile Ohm.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:03 pm

My truck burns recycled dinosaurs.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:16 pm

At one time when I was still in the service back in about 1976 or so, we put in a solar hot water system. Worked GREAT, reduced my power bill by about 80%. Always had 80 gallons of hot water, water was so hot it had to go thru a cold water mixing valve to get it down to a safe temp before it went to house service.

In the summertime, we have an RV that we leave at our place up on the mountain. We are about 5 miles from a power line. We have a 120 watt Kyocera panel on top of the trailer that charges two 120 amp/hour batteries, provides us with all the power we need including the Dish Network TV, which runs off a dedicated inverter. Everything else in the RV runs off 12V DC. Only time we use the generator is if the wife wants to run the vacuum or if it's been overcast for a couple of days.

Our neighbor on the mountain has a regular nice log home that is total solar, he has 8 panels and eight huge batteries and runs everything through an inverter, runs washing machine, TV, etc. Stove and fridge in my trailer and his home are propane, as are the heaters.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:52 pm

Here's one that I think will cover my needs.

PRODUCES ABOUT 4.5 KILOWATT-HOURS ON A SUNNY DAY

More power suitable for a family of 3 or 4, or home office. This covers all of example #3 plus power for a Sunfrost refrigerator and energy efficient chest freezer, and extensive computer or TV use. Washing machine and 120 volt well pump run from inverter AC, with generator backup if winter is extended overcast. 24 volt battery is recommended ,

if future expansion is planned to example #5.
For 24 volt remember to order solar modules in multiples of two, 6-volt batteries in multiples of 4.

SOLAR 1040 WATTS: (eight KC130 watt modules on pole mounts, & wiring)
POWERCENTER: (with charge control and cables)
BATTERIES: (8 to 12 Trojan L-16HC)
INVERTER/CHARGER: Xantrex 2000 to 4000 watt (true sine wave preferred)

Recommended Generator: Generac Guardian 7KW

Anybody know how long a system like this could run a home, by itself? I wonder how long the batteries last?

Johnny

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:53 pm

There is a guy over on castboolits.gunloads that had just had to replace his batteries and was wondering what to do with the old batteries. I think he had about 24 batteries and they lasted around 7 years. He might give you some pointers.

dz86 · Post by **dz86** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:54 pm

Idahoser wrote:My truck burns recycled dinosaurs.

OMG! That's funny!

Dave

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:12 pm

I've researched solar a lot ... too much in fact.

Practically speaking, you need to check with the DSIRE website and see what rebates and incentives are available in your state to offset the costs and just as importantly ... what the rules are for qualifying for assistance.

An example of what I mean is this ... in Florida, you can get reimbursement assistance on systems that qualify and are certified by a lab at the University of Central Florida. So in effect, you have to buy a whole operating and "certified" system and have it installed by "certified" installer. Well, because only limited systems are certified, they can charge more for them. How much more ... as it turns out, about as much more as the state will re-imburse you for. Ergo, all of that state assistance goes into a profit column with the provider instead of getting you more kW on your roof. This is an example of a process that's not really consumer friendly.

Further, you need to see if "net metering" is the law in your state. It is not law in Florida but is in many more consumer friendly states. A few Florida power companies do provide for net metering, but the large ones do not. Net metering is a process whereby you sell your excess back to the power company when you're not using all that you're making. The sales directly offset your future use when you are pulling in more from the power company than what you're making. Obviously, this only applies to grid connected systems. In Florida, the utilities that don't net meter end up paying you about 1/8 of what they charge you on the excess you make ... and then sell to you at a much higher rate. It's like selling them power that they sell back to you for about 8 times more. Not too appealing is it.

If you are currently on-grid (pay a power company or cooperative) then you can get higher efficiency from a high voltage array setup and a direct HV inverter for grid-tied use. An example would be the SunnyBoy series of inverters ... Xantrex also makes one in this style called their GT series.

Going into and out of batteries costs you in efficiency. Batteries, even lead-acid, all have some amount of loss. Further, inverters that run from the lower voltages used in battery connected systems also have lower efficiency because they have to boost the voltage before they invert it. A higher voltage setup skips the boost step and it's associated losses. An HV grid-tied setup might be about 94% efficient where a battery buffered system will end up being about 80% efficient or slightly less ... ballpark.

If you're not "grid-tied" then batteries are necessary to store and unload the generated power as needed by your house and its various electrical accessories.

So basically, it all depends on your situation and the laws and regulations in your state. If you live in Kalifornia, you can just about put up a 15kW system for almost nothing after all of the incentives and with their consumer friendly net-metering setup. If you live in a "less than Green" state like Florida ... the payback on a 15kW system would be well over 20 years and really not worth it. It used to be even longer, but the fuel surcharges on the electric bills here are making solar more attractive ... yet still not fiscally reasonable to install.

And now I will shut up at the risk of droning on and on.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:11 pm

dz86 wrote:
Idahoser wrote:My truck burns recycled dinosaurs.
OMG! That's funny!

Dave

Idahoser wrote:My truck burns recycled dinosaurs.

Got the picture to work. That's on my back bumper.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:35 pm

For your generator, you might look at the Onan's that run on propane, since you will have the propane right there anyway.

Also check into a dedicated panel for your water well pump system so it operates independantly of your main system, might be more efficient. Also, most people I know who have gone solar run the fridge and stove off propane. Saves a LOT of power.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:13 pm

We use wood exclusively for heat, and pre-heat the hot water with it by simply putting an old hot water heater tank a couple inches from the furnace, which is in it's own little concrete room/jacket. The room is about 150 degrees in winter, and the water maybe 105.

In summer, we re-route all water, rather than to-be-hot water, through it, and an air conditioner cools the furnace room. The tank helps since it is cold well water.

We also put a soaker hose on the roof in summer. A pencil-sized stream directed through the hose almost all evaporates by the time it hits the eves, and takes out a tremendous amount of heat - maybe 10 degrees cooler (cathedral ceilings).

Since we're on a well, we hope to hook up a propane generator for that and the freezers, but we're a couple pay checks away from that yet.

Something else to consider (wish we had done so) is 'passive' solar - no gizmos except glass/plastic windows, water or masonry thermal mass, and careful architecture. Nothing therefore to break or really extra to even buy. Countryside Magazine had an article a few years back about a house in Colorado (at 4000 feet I think?) that was passive solar and was really a nice looking place. Incorporated an indoor greenhouse. Yum!