Shooting and Hunting during the Depression !

[Bigahh]

Talking to my 85 year old Father today. I told him I was doing some shooting this weekend as i am a little excited for the upcoming fall. I told him I loaded up 50 shiny new 30-30 cases for the Season last night. He told me that during the Depression 1 Box of 32 special had to last my Dad, and Grandfather for 3 years ! I guess shells and components might be a bit on the expensive side today, but we really don't have it too bad when things are compared to yesteryear !

[Blaine]

Four boxes of .284 just cost me more than my first Army payday (for one month)

[AJMD429]

In the 1970's, a "brick" of 500 .22 LR would cost me $9.99, and I recently got 550 rounds of .22 LR for $17.99, so taking into account inflation, .22 LR is a whole lot cheaper to shoot than it was 35 years ago!

[HEAD0001]

I remember my dad telling me a story about ammunition during the Great Depression. He told me my Grandmother would serve coffee to the state Troopers and ask for shotgun shells instead of money. She also sold some Shine during that time. So she would see the State Troopers a good bit of time. But that is a diferent story.

My dad told me his mother would give him(and his brothers either 2 or 3 shotgun shells at any one time. And she fully expected three diferent animals for the pot with those three shells.

Gathering game with those three shotgun shells was not a fun thing. It was a necessity so that the 7 brothers and 1 sister would go to bed with a full stomach. My dad said it was amazing how my GrandMother could have a full tabe full of food from one or two groundhogs's. Tom.

[Gobblerforge]

I remember selling some fur to buy my first brick of 22 that I paid for completely myself, probably 1972 or so. $10.00. I also agree that I've often thought that 22 ammo really hasn't gone up as much as everything else.
Gobbler

[gundownunder]

Yep, life was tough in them days.

Dad would give me one bullet for the .22 and I'd have to come home with two rabbits and the bullet

I had to walk to school in the snow in bare feet, and it was two miles up hill, both ways

Seriously, I don't envy anyone who had to live through those times.
Plenty of old folks around Oz won't touch rabbit "cause we ate enough of the bloody things back in the depression "..
I think a few folks over here would have starved if it wasn't for the rabbits and the roos that were there for the taking

[kimwcook]

We don't have it bad. Yeah, things cost more, but it's the way of inflation. I wouldn't want to have gone through the depression. Those were some tough times. Just the basics sundries were almost impossible to get.

[Pitchy]

Give it time we may soon be going through much worse, hope not but imo it don`t look good.

[BenT]

My grandfather always told me that he had to bring back one type of game for every cartridge he shot. Al he owned was a single shot stevens 12 guage and single shot springfield 22.

[Gary]

I'm glad that factory ammo is available once again. After the November 2008 gun sales boon, ammo was scarce for a l-o-n-g while.

[Sixgun]

Oh Geeze, here come the stories. Next thing 'ya know, we will all be hearing about the 2 mile walk to school in 6 feet of snow.

OK, my turn

Did you ever notice while being in the woods or somewhere that you can almost always hear lots of shooting off in the distance? About 10 years back I asked my dad, who grew up in the coal mining mountains of western Pennsylvania if he ever remembered hearing shooting on a regular basis. He said "very seldom, and if you did, it was in hunting season" he went on to tell me the only guns in the house were a single shot 12 ga and another gun that had two barrels, one for 12 ga, and another for 30-30.

Oh, the stories about the long walks to school in the snow? Its true as my dad also said that his two brothers and three sisters did it regularly, but thought nothing of it.---They did not have Redwings, Danners, or Gortex back then. Today, parents sit themselves and their children at the end of a 100 foot driveway all toasty in their SUV waiting for the bus. sissys, a whole nation of us--------Sixgun

[Old Savage]

Uphill both ways, seems to me in the late sixties I paid about $.50 a box for 22s to shoot in my K22 - Many thousands!

[wecsoger]

We have had it very lucky the last few decades because of the sacrifice and hard work made by so many who lived through the depression. Sadly, so many of them are gone now. Like others I think we're going to have to re-learn that lesson again.

[2X22]

Like others I think we're going to have to re-learn that lesson again.

And soon, I fear.

2x22

[Canuck Bob]

My uncles were always hard nosed, 10 22 shells, 10 prairie chicken.

They told stories of bounties on gopher tails. One of them said you could snare them all day (never killed any, the bounty would go away) and find one with a tail! The family moved from southwest Saskatchewan due to the dust bowl to northern Alberta. Still dirt poor in a homestead shack but much better hunting.

Rabbit and such was always by snare wire. Moose were a community thing, no fridges back then. When asked what he used my uncle would smile and say, "22 between the eyes".

[765x53]

I have been told that during the '30's long-rifles were 10 cents/box and shorts were 2 boxes for 15 cents.
That is why most old 22's have eroded chamber throats.

[OJ]

This was me in about 1934 with the 22 single shot bolt action rifle I got for my sixth birthday in 1932 and my trophies. Yep - I'm also 85 - have been for two days now.



IIRC, 22 long rifle ammo was four bits for box of 50 and 22 shorts went for two bits - easy choice - required head shots to kill but required we shoot more accurately. I now buy box of Federal 22 LR copper coated ammo for somewhere around $15 at WalMart - but, somehow, that ammo doesn't keep and needs replacement frequently.

I also had a Winchester 94 in Winchester 32 Special - my memory isn't what it used to be and I don't remember the cost of ammo but, it couldn't have been much because, in those depression days, I never had much money.

The up side of those days, however, was that there was a concerted effort to totally wipe out the coyote population - that never happened but the reduction of coyotes produced an explosion of numbers of Jack rabbits - more game for me to harvest.

[pokey]

Yep - I'm also 85 - have been for two days now.

congratulations
lots more bunnies to you.

[Fiddler]

Hey, I like this thread!
The oldtimers I've spoken with over my lifetime have generally said that deer, turkeys, and other game were pretty much wiped out by rampant survival hunting during The Depression, at least in the eastern and midwestern US. They say the deer populations didn't begin bouncing back until the 1950's.
Personally, I believe the next "Depression" is going to make the last one look like a day at the beach. We were a different people then. Recent demographic and social (read welfare dependency) changes will ensure that the next "Depression" quickly becomes a race war.
The story of the waitress trading coffee for shotgun shells reminds me of something from back in the 1970's. I use the name "Fiddler" here because I was once a professional C&W musician decades ago. A drummer I worked with back then had a son who was hot to learn to play fiddle. The dad asked me to give the kid lessons and asked what I'd charge.
Much to his surprise, I asked to be paid in boxes of .22 ammunition.
Not cash.
.22 ammo and lots of it!
You see, back then, in an effort to curb "urban" handgun violence, the government required shopkeepers to require anyone buying .22 ammo (which could be used in "urban" handguns) to show ID and allow their names and addresses to be recorded in a big book kept behind the counter.
Well, seeing how I was a paranoid *** (and still am), I didn't want my name written down in any government book, because I believed (and still do) that the government's eventual end game is the total prohibition of privately-owned firearms.
So, week after week this kid showed up for his fiddle lesson, and week after week his dad brought boxes and boxes of .22 ammo he purchased and signed for.
I eventually moved away in 1982 and lost track of my student and his dad. I hope the kid (now a middle-aged man) is knockin' 'em dead with his fiddle playing.
All I know is that it took decades for me to shoot up all that ammo!
And the government still hasn't come for my .22 rifle!

[Canuck Bob]

OJ that is a remarkable photo. I can remeber that smile when carrying supper home too!

85 and still shooting, I better man up and quit complaining!

[Fiddler]

Good Grief! Isn't this profanity screening system a little heavy-handed?
I intentionally used the term "Ess-Oh-Be" instead of "son-of-a-bitch".
And "Ess-Oh-Be" got deleted?
Aren't we being a little silly here?

[Fiddler]

Good God!
Now I'm really confused!

[Blaine]

Oh Geeze, here come the stories. Next thing 'ya know, we will all be hearing about the 2 mile walk to school in 6 feet of snow.

OK, my turn

Did you ever notice while being in the woods or somewhere that you can almost always hear lots of shooting off in the distance? About 10 years back I asked my dad, who grew up in the coal mining mountains of western Pennsylvania if he ever remembered hearing shooting on a regular basis. He said "very seldom, and if you did, it was in hunting season" he went on to tell me the only guns in the house were a single shot 12 ga and another gun that had two barrels, one for 12 ga, and another for 30-30.

Oh, the stories about the long walks to school in the snow? Its true as my dad also said that his two brothers and three sisters did it regularly, but thought nothing of it.---They did not have Redwings, Danners, or Gortex back then. Today, parents sit themselves and their children at the end of a 100 foot driveway all toasty in their SUV waiting for the bus. sissys, a whole nation of us--------Sixgun

Well, no kidding, in the fifties and sixties, in Ohio, there was mucho snow, and we walked to school in it. I very much remember the days when my (single) Mom didnt' have a car, and the entertainment was a little red AM radio and a crank 78 with about 40 records. Things gradually improved, and really took off when I started at a young age to work for my things, about 7 or 8 IIRC. I don't think the sissy thing is on purpose, it's just sad that's the way a rich country turns out kids: full of entitlement.

[Catshooter]

85 and able to run a computer and post on the web! That's impressive too.


Cat

[kimwcook]

Happy belated birthday, OJ. I hope I'm sitting in my easy chair on the porch like you at your age and still shooting.

[OJ]

OJ that is a remarkable photo. I can remeber that smile when carrying supper home too!

85 and still shooting, I better man up and quit complaining!

Thanks - hard to really explaing how much times were different then - we lived in a small unincorporated "town" (claimed 115 pop - but I never saw that many at once) in catle ranching sandhills of Nebraska. A kid like me could walk down the one street with my rifle and dog and everyone would wave and smile and ask how the hunting was - imagine that in today's society.

[Hobie]

Good Grief! Isn't this profanity screening system a little heavy-handed?
I intentionally used the term "Ess-Oh-Be" instead of "son-of-a-bitch".
And "Ess-Oh-Be" got deleted?
Aren't we being a little silly here?

Well, I didn't set it up that way but one means the same as the other and is as equally offensive to those who are offended and so as likely to be deleted. You don't need to say it, so don't and then all will be well.

[bigbore442001]

As a child I often talked with my grandfather and his experiences of life on a large farm in Massachusetts. He was born in 1901 and passed away while deer hunting in 1977. In the time he was with us I had gleaned a great deal of knowledge from him regarding life during those early years and then during the Great Depression.

As a youth my grandfather's family had two firearms( at least to the best of my knowledge that is all they had) He owned a single shot 22 with a short barrel. I was told that the gun barrel had some sort of malfunction and was shortened to around 14" or so. In those days it did not matter too much. My great grandmother would give him three 22 shorts and he was expected to bring back some sort of game. Southern Worcester County did not have many deer but he did get rabbits and ruffed grouse. His brother Joseph owned a shotgun and to the best of my knowledge shot one deer on the property with a single round ball ( those rounds were called pumpkin balls as they we're not too accurate). In addition to subsistence hunting my grandfather ran a trapline. He made approximately 15 dollars a week during the season. This was more than double what many men made toiling away in Stevens or Slaters linen mills.

[.45colt]

As a Kid I listened to My family,many of who were born before 1900. the only ones who did well in the depression were established Farmers before it hit that had other skills on top of haveing the farm. some of the others not so lucky learned to live on just about anything that was in abundance. they were very hardy people and usually didn't have money for ammo.

[bunyan]

I've heard the stories that squirrels and other game were pretty scarce as the depression wore on. And the stories of being given three shells/cartridges/rounds/whathaveyou and being expected to come back with as many critters. Along with all this, I've also been led to understand that you didn't have to buy a box of ammo, you could frequently buy it per round as money was so scarce it was hard to come up with enough for an entire box. Of course, there was no minimum age to do this, and most any hardware or general store stocked ammo.

[Lastmohecken]

I remember my Grandfather (born in 1915) telling me that back in the depression, he always wanted his hunting dogs to point anything, not just game birds, because about all animals had a value for either their meat or hide, unlike today, where people would get agrivated if a bird dog points a rabbit or something. I guess he had hunting dogs all of his life, which was good for me growing up in the 60's and 70's, as he took me quail hunting a lot back then.

My dad had a hard life, born in 34 and then losing his dad at the age of only 7. I remember him saying that one of his dreams when a child was just to be able to go into a gocery store and buy anything he wanted to eat. He also told me that when he went hunting, (there were no deer) he would usually only shoot a couple of squirrel at a time, because they had no refrigeration, to keep anything.

[OJ]

85 and able to run a computer and post on the web! That's impressive too.
Cat

kimwcook

Happy belated birthday, OJ. I hope I'm sitting in my easy chair on the porch like you at your age and still shooting.

Thanks, guys - I consider myself one of the luckiest guys around - I shoot at the range every week usually and the range owner really likes military veterans - found out my WW II and Korean War experiences - spread in the Army (part of which I was a cadet at West Point), Air Force, and even Navy (where I served as Assistant Battalion Surgeon for a Marine unit ) so he gives me great range prices ( frequently zero) and has copies of all four of my discharges in his military museum. Just couldn't make up my mind - - actually, there were good reasons for that - or seemed so at the time ) about 9 years total, nearly half active duty and rest organized reserve. Really don't deserve all the credit he gives me - it just worked out that way.

Sounds funny to have grown up in depression days as a cowboy first 16 years, participated in a couple of wars, practiced surgery before fancy stuff like CAT scans, MRI, etc. replaced good clinical training - but we had really superb teachers in med school and it was before the government really screwed up medical practice in our country and feel I was really lucky to have lived and done that stuff -at least 98% of which I really enjoyed - I've been blessed.

Guess I lucked out on genes - outlived both parents age-wise - rode my BMW motorcycle 100 miles per week until two years ago but, now my parts - knees & back - are wearing out forcing me to retire the bike.

Gotta give lots of credit to my great wife - who makes certain nothing in our schedule ever interferes with my weekly trip to the range. Gotta say life has treated me well and is continuing to do so - sure appreciate my relationship with guys like are on this forum.

[Malamute]

Happy Birthday OJ!

I think your life story is pretty interesting, I'm glad you're one of the regulars here.


My Grandfather was born in the country (midwest) about 1900. He used to buy 22 shells by the half box and sell meat, and later had a shotgun that he used for everything, including some market hunting to make ends meet for the family as a kid. By the depression he was not doing too bad in general, he had a couple jobs, and was always thinking of ways to make a little extra money. I heard stories of him, after moving into town and having a family and businesses, would still like to eat squirrels and such. He'd set an ear of corn out in the yard staked own by a piece of wire and go in the house and open the window a bit. When squirrels would show up, he'd shoot a couple out the window with his old 22 and have squirrel for breakfast.


Back on the topic of tough childhood stories,...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDaSvRO ... r_embedded

[claybob86]

Today, parents sit themselves and their children at the end of a 100 foot driveway all toasty in their SUV waiting for the bus. sissys, a whole nation of us--------Sixgun

Guilty as charged! (But only when it's below 20 with a howling wind!)

[BenT]

My father did walk to school uphill both ways. The single room school was across the valley on the other ridge. He walked down the valley and up the other side, same on the way home.

[OJ]

85 and able to run a computer and post on the web! That's impressive too.
Cat

If I could be allowed just one more OT post (I promise not to do it again) - I think you might find this entertaining also.

About four years ago, I was on my weekly ride to Cripple Creek on my 1977 BMW R100S - on a twisty stretch of road when I saw an SUV coming up fast behind me. One of the high rating rules of safety for bikers is don't tailgate - or allow it - so I "turned up the wick" - he did too - and so on (I was too busy to see speedo but tach said I was at least 30 MPH over limit) - until I reached a straight stretch where I could pull over and wave him by.

He didn't pass but turned on those tiny red and blue lights on top. As he approached me, he looked grim and asked if I had some reason for going so fast. Trying to explain the "no tailgating" rule for bikers, I blurted out I try not to hold up traffic.

I guess he hadn't heard that excuse before and looked like he was trying to keep a straight face as he took my papers back to his car.

When he returned, he was cracking up laughing - saying he had expected to catch a young punk speeder on a new sport bike - but - NEVER expected to find an 80 year old man on a 30 year old bike - looks like this -.



I promised to "do better", got the warning only, and we parted friends - he even invited me to coffee any time I was in his county.

[Catshooter]

Eighty five, still shoots, posts on the web and can even post pics!

Makes a man wonder about some of us younger fellas, don't it . . .


Cat

[TNBigBore]

I used to love to listen to my grandfather (born in 1914) tell stories about the 1920s and 30s. He never really made a distinction between the two. He grew up on a farm in Middle Tennessee and was a farmer himself. I don't really think the Depression had much effect on his family. They raised almost all of what they ate and hunted and fished for the rest. The only thing they had to buy was coffee, sugar and flour. They had dairy cows, chickens, hogs and raised lots of corn. They always had a big garden too and a small orchard with apple and pear trees. He even had a small tub mill to grind his own corn with and smoke house full of hams and bacon etc.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Don McDowell]

The farm families that were hit the hardest in the "depression" were the ones that got the double whammy from the dustbowl drought. Much like the one going on in Texas,OK and New Mexico right now.

Got the AF Stoeger catalog out from 1936 and they sold 22's from 19 cents a box for shorts up to 31 cents for supex longrifles.
32 winchester specials were 1.31 a box.

[OJ]

Eighty five, still shoots, posts on the web and can even post pics!

Makes a man wonder about some of us younger fellas, don't it . . .


Cat

Well, you guys are sure dangling plenty of bait for me to bite on - and, temptation is the one thing I can't resist - though it's getting harder to find any - I do have parts wearing out - knees, back, memory, and something else I can't remember right now.

Back to OT - Shooting and Hunting during the Depression -

In 1933, a close friend of dad's gave me this beauty for my 7th birthday - and I really loved it - no other guys had anything like my H&R Handy Gun - .410 pistol - had a ball but short range taught me to sneak up on"game" because, with the no-choke 12" barrel chambered only for 2 1/2" shells, effective range was not over some 20 yards or so -





Well, the following year 1934, the National Firearms Act went into effect so the ATF could keep Tommy guns out of the hands of Bootleggers (never mind the 21st amendment canceling prohibition went into effect before the NFA was passed) - range was so short - any gangster using the Handy Gun for any offensive or defensive use would surely have proved Darwin to be correct. At any rate, it required registering the pistol - cost of which was $200 depression day dollars. Most expensive gift I ever got -for me, at least - before or since.

Registration form asked why I owned "such a weapon" - my answer was I was a gun collector - I was almost 8 years old.

He was the same friend who brought these silver inlaid spurs back from Mexico as another gift for me - fanciest gift I ever got at that time also.



They were so fancy, I thought they were just to hang on the wall - until --

As a 12 year old cowboy in depression days, I rarely had much over $15 in my pocket but I would go to the Saturday stock auction every week - just in case -

Well, they led this exceptionally good looking 7 year old gelding saddle horse (absolute prime age for a working saddle horse) into the ring - and - there were no bids !!! I did the smartest thing I could think of and bid $15 ----

And, no one bid against me. Now, in such cowboy communities, everybody knows all about everybody else and I really had a red face and felt all there knew I was a sucker & they all knew something about that horse I didn't. I claimed him with my $15 and quickly found out what it was.

The man that broke that horse was intimidated by him and the horse took advantage of that.

Now, 12 year old cowboys aren't intimidated by anything (some claim it's because they aren't smart enough). I took a couple of weeks - but I got it cured - well - about 80% at least. Putting the bargain into perspective, "free lance" cowboys - as I was - got paid $5 per day to work cattle and ranch stock if that cowboy rode the rancher's horse, saddle, & bridle - but, if that cowboy had his own horse, saddle, bridle, and rope - he was paid $8 per day.I paid for that horse the first five days I worked him !!!

However, the day came when he stretched his luck too far and needed to be convinced it was the cowboy who was in charge.

I took those spurs off the wall, put them on, and climbed aboard again. Those rowels look less than humane but, all it took was just a couple of fairly gentle touches of them in his ribs and - my being in charge was never questioned again.

I made a lot of depression day dollars with my horse I called Fleet - but when my folks moved to the city four years later, I was sure that all other cowboys would know what a great working saddle horse I had trained and I could get the usual $40 - $50 for him.

No way. Evidently, the general opinion was that he was a "one man horse" that would only work for me (there were several cowboys in the Sandhills known to have such horses and other cowboys avoided them). I got $15 for him and $40 for my saddle, bridle, and stuff.

Even young cowboys know "LIFE'S NOT FAIR"

Now, if I could just get control of this ferocious beast, I'd have it made -

[WCF3030]

One box split between 2 people for 3 years. I would of never made it.

As a side note, around here a shunk pelt would get you $7 back in the day. Bet that put a dent in the population.

[OJ]

Pair of coyote ears brought $2.00 in the Sandhill in 1930s.

[Canuck Bob]

Pair of coyote ears brought $2.00 in the Sandhill in 1930s.

Gopher tail 1 cent.

[Bigahh]

Things are seriously getting worse now days ! My wife sends me away on fridays for the weekend, and makes sure I have plenty of ammo, but tells me to not bring a thing Home except myself.

[kimwcook]

My dad told me and my brother a story about one of his uncles back during the depression or shortly thereafter. There was a bounty on magpie's in North Dakota and they were paid by the pair of wings. The uncle would fill up a coffee can with wings and let it sit outside until it was crawling with maggots. The uncle would then take the can in to get paid. The agent would take the uncle's word on how many wings were in the can. The agent would then set the can outside (because I guess it was ripe)and the uncle would retrieve it and turn it back in a while later. He did this several times with the same guy and as the story goes he never caught on.

[Old Time Hunter]

OJ, your posts are priceless, thanks a bunch!

During the depression my grandfather was on the sheriff's department in Northern Wisconsin, so he did have some access to ammo. They gave him ONE box of .38 spl ammo a year. But, he had been taught by my great grandfather how to make his own powder. Growing up I can remember he always had three compost beds work'n, barrels of chipped charcoal, and would bring home blocks of raw sulfer. Lead, do not know where he got it, but we still have rolled sheets of it that he got somewhere. To make a long story longer, he always had is home made ammo to support his .44-40, .410 single shot, 20 gauge double barrel, and 12 gauge double barrel. When he passed away back in '87 (aged 87), my dad and I cleaned out his back shed and found 12 full boxes of county issued .38 spl ammo, date coded from 1930 to 1942. Pretty interesting since he unfotunately got into a couple of incidents that required firing a weapon...must have used his home made stuff. 'Course, even when he moved to the big city(kept the homestead and ended up retiring to it) to be a motorcycle cop he still carried his '92 Winchester .44-40 in a scabbard.

As far as taking a bus to school...the first school bus I was in was the one the government put me in when I got drafted. Always walked to school until I could afford my first bicycle and living in Wisconsin, snow started in October and did not leave sometimes until May.

Oh yeah, grandpa, dad, and I always hunted with home made stuff right up until the '70's. As far as during the depression, guess grandpa was fortunate to be a sheriff, 'cause dad was pretty sick of venison by the time he was 10.

[octagon]

My Dad says they only had a .22 and a shotgun at the ranch and Grandpa would not waste bullets to kill the hogs they raised, but instead would brain em with a big ball peen hammer that he kept on the floor of his tractor (he was a big fella.) Dad thought it would be real funny to tack weld the hammer to the tractor for a joke, but unfortunately that was the day that a BIG boar got after Grandpa to eat him - when he stormed over to the tractor to get the hammer and the tractor would not turn loose of it - so he dispatched the hog with a grubbin hoe...then the epic *** kicking commenced...

There was no deer to shoot then, and to even see one was rare due to the screw worms. Dad said he never even shot a centerfire rifle till he was in the Army. He said the Army was a piece of cake compared to life on the ranch.

[OJ]

You guys'll like this - I think.

I just got back from my weekly trip to the range - I wear t-shirts the DragonMan - range owner gives me that advertise he's a level III dealer who sells fully automatic machine guns. Today's shirt was medium blue - I stopped a Wal Mart for some Bore Scrubber and was walking down the isle when a nicely dressed gray haired lady came up behind me and inquired, "Pardon me, sir - I know you work in automotive but, could you tell where to find light bulbs?".

Well, the blue t-shirt is close to the color shirts Wal Mart employees wear but ??? why did she think I worked automotive?

Long story short, when I changed t-shirts at home, I realized across the back was, in giant letters



and front says -

[J Miller]

I feel left out. Both my mom and dad and all grandparents lived in IL during the depression. On farms or usually just outside the city limits no less. So there was always gardens and crops for eats.
My parents divorced when I was young so I never heard stories about the depression. Mom was too young to really remember much of it being born in 27 and dad, well when he was there I was very young and wouldn't have been interested anyway.

Well, I'm reading all the stories here and all I can say is "if" I live to see the upcoming crash of this country I'll have plenty of ...... emmm, well I have sufficient supplies to last a good long while.
That is if we can get the heck out of the city.

Joe