OT - Another .22 handgun question

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:29 am

Recent threads have got me thinkin on .22's today for I'm gonna be looking this fall for a new "woods & trail" .22. Don't need magnum and about the only requirements I have is that it be stainless with wood grips either on it from the factory or available aftermarket. Not necessarily looking for the best gun but instead the best value. Choices so far are:

- Ruger MK or 22/45
- Ruger Single Ten
- Ruger Single Six
- Taurus 94
- Charter Arms
- Wait for the new Ruger SP101

Notes to keep in mind: I don't need or necessarily want DA. The only advantages the DA revolvers have "to me" is weight and ease of loading/unloading over other choices. While this will not be a primary hunting gun accuracy (or should I say "ease of shooting accurately") does count for something. And last but not least a decent trigger or a gun that is capable of having a decent trigger with the aide of a trained monkey (In other words spring or parts swaps).

Now I left the Heritage's off the list. I'm not opposed to them if they are indeed the best value so if you like em add em but my experience is not favorable with shooting one and handling others.

Fire away,
LK

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:57 am

IMHO

Ruger MK or 22/45 - Best value, new 22/45 @ $225, wodd grips unavail AFAIK

Ruger Single Ten - Most expensive ($600), most likely a tad heavier than a Single Six)

Ruger Single Six - Classic, good value, especially if convertible revolver desired

Taurus 94 - fahgettaboutit !

Charter Arms - 1970's version or brand-new are good, new CA Prexy will stand behind any trouble, good value.

Wait for the new Ruger SP101 - 2nd most expensive, easily the heaviest, not most accurate

.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:00 pm

Of the ones that you listed I only own two models; I have a MarkII Target and an old tapered barrel Standard, both blue 6". They are both very good shooters. I also have a 6 1/2" Single Six convertible. Also a very good shooter. All of these can be bought a reasonable prices used. All three seem to shoot just about any bulk pack ammo well enough.

My son has a Ruger 22/45 MkIII that he bought new, it shoots as well as my Standard and my MkII.

I have a friend who recently bought a new stainless Taurus, the trigger is a little heavy but it is accurate enough and I think worth what he paid (around $325 OTD)

I know they are not in the same class as the ones you listed but my S&W K22 and Colt Officers Model just shoot circles around all of the others. I know that good deals on them are hard to come by, but if you get either one you won't be dissapointed.

One more thing, not all older guns shoot well. I had an early '50s Colt Challenger in great shape that just never was more than a plinker, regardless of ammo used; and we tried a bunch. I finally gave it to my son and his new MKIII easily outshoots it.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:17 pm

I'm a huge fan of the Ruger Mark X series but you have other very good choices there. Your first decision will be if you want a revolver or semi-auto and then narrow it down from there.

But for my $00,000.02 worth it's the Ruger Mark II. It has all the needed improvements needed from the Mark I but nothing that you really need from the Mark III.

A metric tonne of accessories, parts, grips, etc, easily available.

Only downside, the Ruger Mark series are a pain in the bum to really take down and clean unless you really do that on a regular basis. But seriously, you don't need to clean them that much. When they get really disgusting inside, just a good spray down with WD-40, swish out the old junk and go buy another brick.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:32 pm

If you want the best Trail gun ever made, it is the S&W model 34/22 Kit-gun blued model or it SS equivelent. This is on the Smith J frame. They are DA, but oh what a shooter.

They are available, I bought one for my Son at an Estate Auction last Year.

I like My Ruger Single's, but the model 34 is my all time favorite.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:33 pm

Like Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith, my hand was moulded for a single action. Over the years I have had just about every Colt, 'Smith, Ruger ever made in about every variation from DA, SA and semi. I always keep reaching for the Ruger single action. Although the new models are excellent, I do prefer the old model or the pre-old model, the flatgate. Just a personal preference for me. They are all excellent and will most likely be shootable in another 200 years---providing we still have a world.-----------Sixgun

My favorite .22 single action. A Ruger S.S. flatgate made in '57.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:36 pm

Deleted

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:43 pm

Just my experience but I would choose a revolver as a trail gun rather than a semi auto. I've just not had the reliability from the bottom feeders that I have had with the revolvers.

I also like single actions. But I prefer the older steel Colt Peacemakers or New Frontiers. They are what Rugers Single-Six aspires to be.
But any good Ruger will get the job done if it is an accurate one. Ruger has had some that were quit inaccurate ... I have one.

Joe

OJ · Post by OJ » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:47 pm

Individual tastes vary - good thin IMO, since it gives us greater choices - I have these -

Super Single Six - cylinders for both LR & 22 magnum

SP 101 in 22 LR & 357 Magnum

But, this MK II Government Target Model is #1 for me.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:56 pm

More info and incoherent rambling from me.....

Pete, the 22/45's are now available with 1911 grip panels and the future SP is lighter than either of the Single Six's and the MK's. Even the poly 22/45. Also, while a blue 22/45 is $240 give or take it's not the stainless version or the 1911 grip panel version.

Wecsoger, sold off a MKII 22/45 a few months ago. Never had an issue with the tear down and I actually think they are easy. But I wanted to upgrade to something with a little more style and stainless, Let's face it, the MKII 22/45's while very functional were not easy on the eyes.

When I sold off the 22/45 I fully intended on replacing it with either a standard MKII/III, a new stainless wood grip panel 22/45 or a Single Six. Was leaning towards the Single Six but since then the Single 10 has come out, the 8 shot SP101 is in the works and the cost savings (initial, $100-$150 depending other models) of the CA and Taurus are attractive which is why they are in the running. The weight savings of the DA's is also become a consideration. Not at the expense of ending up with a turd though.

Steve, nothing at all wrong with the Buckmarks and I kinda forgot about them. I've always preferred the Rugers over the Brownings. Nice guns though and I won't cross them off the list. As a matter of fact I talked a buddy into one a year or 2 ago. Nice shooter.

LK

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:15 pm

kinda spendy, and not stainless, but my favorite 22 pistola,

12226.JPG

12223.JPG

usfa 1222.

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:44 pm

My own personal choice was not the easiest one, but I finally settled in with a SS NM Bearcat.

I found the Single Six too heavy for a six shot .22 LR (subjective personal preference thing).

My youngest daughter uses an OM Bearcat (JXXX and collectibilty be darned - it's a fine user and it's hers).

I have owned a number of Ruger Autos and can't personally see a reason to keep any but my original MKI (not simply a pre-MKII, but an actual MKI), 5.5" bull and that goes to my oldest daughter anyway it's just still sitting in my safe.

I had a blued, 3" Charter Pocket Target (later called the Pathfinder) which was a superbly compact and light gun (the grip more accommodating to folks who don't get along with the Bearcat) and accurate, but not AS accurate as the Bearcats or my OM SS (1957). Front sight was too wide but otherwise a fine revolver.

I also had (or my Wife did) a Taurus 94, SS, 4" and it was a sweet little revolver, accurate, compact and had a very nice action (post-factory work). I have owned a number of Taurus revolvers and a couple autos and all were excellent except a .32 mag with oversized chambers.

MKII 22-45 was OK, but the girls wouldn't use it because they liked the MKI. Bought the 22-45 so I could have my MKI back, but it didn't work. Nothing worng with the 22-45, but the MKIIIs seems to be getting pretty complex with a lot of extra gizmos. Not sure if all MKIIIs are like that, but I assume they still do what the old ones did - just have extra "stuff." For me, the Ruger autos are great, but not something I like to lug around a lot.

There was an H&R 4", swing-out cylinder 9-shot that was butt-ugly from neglect but clean and smooth inside and shot like a champ. I would have picked it over any of the above but for having sold it to a guy I felt sorry for who had no pistol and it was the only one I had that he could afford. Should have kept it because he was able to afford a new Browing rifle or shotgun a month for the following couple years. Hmmmmm,.......

The he got married and sold all but the two I sold him and he wouldn't get off 'em.

Not sure if this helps.
I know my preferences differ from most because I usually get comments deriding my personal views on size and weight. When you spend close to thirty years with the 19 ounce Bulldog .44 as your go-to handgun, most others seem big and bulky. Nothing wrong with big and bulky either - just not my preference.

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:32 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:If you want the best Trail gun ever made, it is the S&W model 34/22 Kit-gun...............

Ahhhhh, the Holy Grail of .22 Kit Guns.

I will amend my answer(s) with...... "now,....... if someone else was payin' for it......"

Maybe some day.

I handled one in a shop decades ago but they wanted $245 for it and I was paying just a shade over a hundred for the stuff I was shooting. It was a stainless 4" and was an absolutely exquisite revolver.

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:35 pm

Of the choices you mention, it would be really hard to beat one of the Ruger autos. For me, I would look for a used MkII over the new MkIII, but the III's would do. Mine is a 5 1/2" MkII blue that outshoots my model 17 Smith. I also would really like to take a look at the new Ruger SP101 revolvers when they become available.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:12 pm

Semi-autos:
I'm a huge Buckmark fan. In fact, I like the pistol so much I bought the carbine version as well.

I've owned 2 MKII's. Bought both after the Buckmark and neither did anything better than the Buckmark so they left. A plus in my eyes is you can swap barrels on the Buckmark without having to get an whole new upper like the MK series. Someday I might get around to picking up either a sporter barrel or one of the lightweight Pac-Lites (IIRC, maybe it's Tac-Sol) with muzzle threads and cap.

A neutral to me point on the Buckmark is there's not near the aftermarket support like there is for the MK series. Some say it's because it isn't as popular, some say it's because it doesn't need it. I figure there's some truth to both trains of thought.

Also, don't forget about the Hi-Standard Duramatic series. The main drawbacks to them (IMO) are hard to find mags (the aftermarket ones aren't worth a hoot from what I've read) and most are pushing 30+ years of use as kit guns, trainers for new shooters, etc.

The Beretta NEOS is another solid choice. I had an early first generation that wound up having a trigger return issue. Beretta replaced the pistol and I sold it. Now that they've been out for some time, I'm willing to try another. Plus you can get a carbine conversion kit for about the cost of a second NEOS.

Now neither the Hi-Standard or Beretta are available in stainless (although Beretta does have it's INOX finish) and AFAIK neither have wood available from any source, they are still worth looking at IMO.

Revolvers:
Of the ones you listed, the Single Six is what I chose. Mine's an unconverted OM but I wouldn't be opposed to a NM if the price was right. Plus with a NM I can mod a Bisley hammer to fit and have a cool looking revolver!

The Charter Arms caught my eye yesterday. Felt good, but I'm still thinking on it. Same with a SS NM Bearcat.

With the Taurus IMO, you pays yer money, you takes yer chances. I've only had a couple of their centerfire revolvers and they were solid and useable BUT if you have to have it serviced you may be in for a round of "I sent it in 8 months ago, where is it?" or "I sent it in for splitting cases, why did you replace the front sight but not do anything about the chambers?"

The Single Ten and newer S&W 17/617 don't cut it for me because I prefer 6 rounds in my revolvers, not 8/10/12/53/etc. I'm not even a fan of the 7 and 8 shot centerfire revolvers. Just a quirk on my part.

Jeff H wrote:
Lefty Dude wrote:If you want the best Trail gun ever made, it is the S&W model 34/22 Kit-gun...............
Ahhhhh, the Holy Grail of .22 Kit Guns.

I will amend my answer(s) with...... "now,....... if someone else was payin' for it......"

And I will add to that answer and amend it with "if we were talking about the M63 and someone else was paying for it..."

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:15 pm

My personal choices:

Ruger MkIII 22/45 adj sights 6" barrel (mine is all poly though) (have a nice El Paso Sadlery holster for it)
Ruger MkII 4" "commemorative" fixed sights
Ruger Single Six convertible
Ruger Bearcat blue

Yep, all of my .22LR handguns are Rugers.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:07 pm

Specifically for woods walking/hunting have had:

4 Ruger MKII 22lrs
2 Sp101 22lr
2 Single Sixes
1 Taurus 94

Of those, still have 3 Ruger MKIIs. All perfectly accurate/reliable with CCI MiniMags HP and Federal Match.

Still have one Single Six, but it's used more for 22lr snake shot when around wetlands.

Couldn't see being without a MKII, now.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:34 pm

I would not buy a MKIII for any reason.
I've seen more problems with them than I would care to deal with, especially poor triggers and functioning problems caused by the LCI.

The MKIIs are great guns and every shooter should have at least one. My MKIII will hit clay birds at fifty yards so regular that it's almost boring.

I think that the Single Ten is strictly marketing hype and won't be with us for long.
The Single Six with the extra cylinder is a much more useful gun.
I have an older one that I shot a lot for thirty years. A couple of years ago, I talked my wife out of a Single-Six Hunter for Christmas. I like the longer barrel and the ability to add a scope but I would still use the shorter and lighter Single-Six for a trail gun.
'Smattern fact, I carried the SS with the magnum cylinder for woods bumming for several years. We've had quite a few problems with bears, rabid critters and two legged varmints recently so I pack heavier calibers nowadays.

Jack

66GTO · Post by **66GTO** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Another vote for the Browning Buckmark. I have the stainless Camper UDX bull barrel with the molded rubber grips and HiViz front sight. With Winchester 40 gr. Power Points (HP) it is dead nuts reliable and accurate. I loved the trigger right out of the box. Great ergonomics. Perfect balance and my old eyes appreciate the HiViz sight. It is death on bunnies and coons with the Power Points. It also likes the Win. 555/333 bulk ammo. It doesn't like Federal 510 or bulk though.

I am still looking for a DA .22lr revolver. Like a dummy I passed on a vintage Colt 4" Police Positive Target last year. Changed my mind and went back later and of course it was gone

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:10 pm

I think If I could own just one .22 it would be a Smith and Wesson model 17-2 K22, as I still believe they are about the finest ever made.

On a single action, I like a Ruger Stainless Single Six convertible, but I recently got to see and handle one of the new Single Tens and I don't know, but I believe I would like one, if the lock work is accurate, as they do not seem any bigger or heavier to me, and 10 shots is not a bad deal.

For a smaller gun, I have found the little Ruger Bearcat to be a good shooter, but as much as I like the J-frame 38's, I have not had a J-frame .22 that shot all that accurate, but maybe I just never had a good one.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:54 am

For a .22lr trail gun, in DA I would go with the S&W J frame. The current 3 inch with high visibilty sights is a nice little and light package. One of those that can go anywhere and you can have when ever you need it. For SA, I would go with the SS Bearcat. Very nice and balances well. For a semi I would go with the slab sided Ruger Mk II but here in PA, can't use a semi to hunt so that eliminates it from my consideration. Good luck with your choice. You have to decide what features are important to you.

For me, accuracy, compactness, and feel in my hand are essential. Accuracy is fairly subjective and depends on at what range you wish. Is it shoot the head off a snake accurate or head shooting a bushy tail in the top of a tall pine? Perhaps its just plinking at tin cans at 7 paces. Compactness for me means it has to carry well, not pull my shorts or pants down and not be in the way if I am carrying a pack, wanting to get it into action quickly. My hunting pack actually has built into the waste band on the inside of the band, a place for a small handgun. It was one of the features I loved about the pack. Either of the first two I mentioned above ride very well there. Feel, some have big mits, some have small, some have large fingers, some skinny little things. If the firearm doesn't feel well in your hand, it wont get shot much. Again, good luck with your decision and let us know (with Pictures) your choice.

blessings

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:23 am

rjohns94 wrote:For a .22lr trail gun, in DA I would go with the S&W J frame. The current 3 inch with high visibilty sights is a nice little and light package. One of those that can go anywhere and you can have when ever you need it. For SA, I would go with the SS Bearcat. Very nice and balances well. For a semi I would go with the slab sided Ruger Mk II but here in PA, can't use a semi to hunt so that eliminates it from my consideration. Good luck with your choice. You have to decide what features are important to you.

For me, accuracy, compactness, and feel in my hand are essential. Accuracy is fairly subjective and depends on at what range you wish. Is it shoot the head off a snake accurate or head shooting a bushy tail in the top of a tall pine? Perhaps its just plinking at tin cans at 7 paces. Compactness for me means it has to carry well, not pull my shorts or pants down and not be in the way if I am carrying a pack, wanting to get it into action quickly. My hunting pack actually has built into the waste band on the inside of the band, a place for a small handgun. It was one of the features I loved about the pack. Either of the first two I mentioned above ride very well there. Feel, some have big mits, some have small, some have large fingers, some skinny little things. If the firearm doesn't feel well in your hand, it wont get shot much. Again, good luck with your decision and let us know (with Pictures) your choice.

blessings

My "smallish" gun needs are already filled via my Bersa T22. Forgot to mention I still have one of those didn't I? Sorry. But it suffers from the same thing as many small guns, lack of accuracy. Or should I say hard to shoot accurately? Either way, I'm wanting a gun that is accurate and IME the Bearcat is not it. And while maybe still some of the best guns available don't even get me started on the S&W's and their lack of "value"

Basically, I'm not payin $100-$300 extra for the minimal gain in quality.

Anyway, the Bersa is the gun I carry when I'm carrying a centerfire rifle or shotgun. Just something small and light to finish predators and very short range hunting. You know, when that dang squirrel comes and sits 10' away and barks at me when sitting on stand…… Not a dedicated, stand alone woods gun IMO.

The pictures have been a great deal of help. Not like I haven't seen, handled and/or used most of the guns pictured but seeing em all together helps. First thing that pops in my head is how mediocre the SP's are in the looks department. I've been a Ruger fan for 25 years and the SP's are very well built but then again so was the 22/45 I sold off. Looking to upgrade my guns and for better or worse looks count and the SP's just don't do anything for me. After some thought, none of the DA's do.

So that leaves me with the Single Six/Ten, the Ruger MK's and the Buckmarks. When it comes to centerfires I'm 100% a revolver gun. Has more to do with policing brass than anything else though which doesn't come into play with the rimfires so I'm still up in the air. But how does accuracy compare between the semi's and the Ruger Single's? Don't need the 22/45 accuracy (8 outta 10 or so on 2" spinners at 50 feet, in my hands) but need way better than the Bersa (4 outta 10 or worse at 50 feet) .

Thanks and keep em coming,
LK

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:26 am

IT SEEMS TO ME YOU ARE SABATAGING YOUR OWN SEARCH BY YOUR OWN MENTAL QUIRKS ON THE SUBJECT AND DOING SO JUST SO SOMEONE WILL TALK TO YOU....OR SOMETHING.
I WAS ALL SET TO ENTER THIS DISCUSSION BUT YOU POOPOO EVERYTHING WITH SILLY LIKES AND DISLIKES. OUT OF THE HUNDRED OR SO 22 PISTOLS I'VE OWNED/OWN THERE ARE FEW THAT WOULD NOT DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED, PUT A 40gr BULLET THROUGH THE FREAKIN' TARGET, DEAD CENTER.
MY BERSA HAS 20M ROUNDS THROUGH IT AND WILL PICK-OFF BLACKBIRDS AT 35 YARDS ALL DAY LONG. DONE TEN-FOR-TEN SEVERAL TIMES. SO WILL YOURS THE DAY YOU DECIDE TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOT IT THAT WELL AND REALIZE YOU CANNOT---CANNOT !!!---BUY SHOOTING SKILL WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN A HELL OF A LOT OF PRACTISE; THE GUN ITSELF MEANS darned NEAR NOTHING !!!!
MY BEARCAT WILL PUT 22LR AND 22SHORT THROUGH THE SAME DEAD-CENTER HOLE AT 40 YARDS OFF HAND.
SO WILL THE VALTER PP22 IN THE SAME HOLE AT THE SAME 40 YARD CAN. AMAZING HOW 10,000 ROUNDS THOUGH THE PP22 IN TWO YEARS LETS A FELLOW SHOOT IT VERY WELL INDEED.
FUNNY HOW THE JENNINGS 22 WILL NOT MISS A TINCAN AT 25 YARDS.

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:59 am

FUNNY HOW THE JENNINGS 22 WILL NOT MISS A TINCAN AT 25 YARDS.

I can sure understand that - a couple of years ago, the guy next to me on the range had one of those cute little Jennings 22 autos. He never scored a miss the half hour or so that we were there.

When I left, he was muttering something like he was going to have to take it back to the dealer again to fix something so he could fire some ammo - which he hadn't been able to do since he bought it.

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:35 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:If you want the best Trail gun ever made, it is the S&W model 34/22 Kit-gun blued model or it SS equivelent. This is on the Smith J frame. They are DA, but oh what a shooter.

They are available, I bought one for my Son at an Estate Auction last Year.

I like My Ruger Single's, but the model 34 is my all time favorite.

i am with you, but i like the model 43 airweight even better. [ no longer made ] had alloy frame but has steel barrel and points very well, very accurate.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:03 pm

hfcable wrote:
Lefty Dude wrote:If you want the best Trail gun ever made, it is the S&W model 34/22 Kit-gun blued model or it SS equivelent. This is on the Smith J frame. They are DA, but oh what a shooter.

They are available, I bought one for my Son at an Estate Auction last Year.

I like My Ruger Single's, but the model 34 is my all time favorite.
i am with you, but i like the model 43 airweight even better. [ no longer made ] had alloy frame but has steel barrel and points very well, very accurate.

LET ME NOTE RIGHT HERE THAT THE NEW S&W M63-4 5" HB 8-SHOT " KITGUN " IS THE BEST ONE I'VE EVER SHOT BAR NONE. JUDY BOUGHT ME ONE FOR MY BIRTHDAY A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN IT CAME OUT AND WE'VE NOT SHOT THE S&W M34 4" SINCE. THIS M63-4 5" HANDLES AND SHOOTS MORE LIKE A JUNIOR K22 THAT AN EVER SO SLIGHTLY BIGGER " KITGUN." I AM HERE TO TELL YOU IT'LL OUTSHOOT EVERY KITGUN I'VE EVER HAD INCLUDING A M63 2" AMD A M63 4", BOTH OF WHICH HAD LOUSY SIGHTS IN COMPARISON TO THIS M63-4. MATTER OF FACT NEITHER OF THE EARLIER M63 'S COULD SHOOT WITH THIS NEW M63-4 5" HB IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. JUDY CAN PICK THE BUTTONS OFF YOUR SHIRT AT 50 YARDS WITH ALL EIGHT SHOTS AND I ALWAYS SHOOT IT DA ONLY WITH EQUAL RESULTS. THE SA TRIGGER IS EXCELLENT AND THE DA BROKE IN JUST FINE AND HANDLES LIKE A CHARM, SMOOTH AND CLEAN WITH A NO BACKLASH LET OFF. IT IS ALSO THE ONLY 22 PISTOL SINCE MY OLD H&R M999 I'VE EVER BEEN ABLE TO DA POINT SHOOTALL EIGHT SHOTS ON A BOUNCING TINCAN. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE GUNS THAT MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE YOU REALLY---REALLY !!!---KNOW HOW TO SHOOT.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:37 pm

OH....BEFORE I FORGET : THE TWO WORST 22 PISTOLS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE WERE THE WALTHER P22 OF WHICH 7000 ROUNDS TURNED IT INTO A RATTLING HULK P O S. IT WAS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT I'D PAID FOR IT, A ONE DOLLAR RAFFLE TICKET. AFTER S&W REBUILT THE GUN IN TOTAL I GAVE THE PIECE OF TRASH AWAY SO NO ONE COULD ACCUSE ME OF SELLING 'EM A CLUNKER.
JUST AS BAD EVEN THOUGH IT WAS HIGHLY ACCURATE IS A KIMBER 1911 RIMFIRE TARGET WITH WHICH I KNOCKED OFF SIX PRAIRIE RATS AT 100 YARDS WITH SIX CONSECUTIVE SHOTA AND FOUR STOPPAGES TO GET THERE. THAT WAS PAR FOR THE COURSE AND SEVEN OF IT'S TEN $25.00 MAGAZINES WOULD NOT FEED ANYTHING AT ALL. WITH OVER 14,000 ROUNDS THROUGH IT EXACTLY 250 WERE TEN CONSECUTIVE SHOTS FROM A MAGAZINE. MY WIFE LIKED THIS GUN AND SHE COULD CLEAR STOPPAGES SO FAST YOU DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS DOING IT. THIS WAS ON AVERAGE THREE TO FIVE STOPAGES PER MAGAZINE. I HAD BOUGHT IT FOR HER TO LEARN THE DRILL TO RUN A 1911 PISTOL. AFTER THAT I BOUGHT HER A NEW AUTOLOADING PISTOL, A RUGER MKII 50th ANNIVERSARY [ $159.00 ] AND SHE WAS AMAZED WHEN IT NEVER MALFED A ROUND FOR THOUSANDS IT A TIME.
[ MY KIMBER GOLD MATCH 45 IS JUST AS BIG A PIECE OF TRASH TOO !!!!! ]

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:04 pm

I've had my model 94 Taurus for over 20 years and she has been a faithful, reliable, accurate companion. That being said I have heard both good and bad about recent production models so I couldn't recommend one without first handling it, and preferably shooting it first before purchase, a high percentage having about a 30% FTF in DA mode.

Mine came with clubby wood grips but I replaced them with a Hogue Mono-Grip to help tame it's monstrous recoil.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:10 pm

Not exactly a handgun, but about 30 years ago, I watched an Uncle take a winchester Semi Auto .22lr rifle and kill 14 dogs out of a pack which were running and attacking his cattle. 14 shots, 14 head shot dogs. He reloaded, it was the kind which you loaded through the cutout on the side of the stock and the magazine follower went into the end of the stock, and got a few more as they tried to get away. He had been in the infantry in WWII from North Africa all the way to the Battle of the Bulge. He had fired more rounds than I am likely to ever see, and I don't recall seeing him ever miss. The point is, just like Terry said, practice is what makes you as accurate as your firearm. I first took my Concealed Handgun License class with a Walther PPK/S and had the second most hits in the bullseye in the group of 20 students. I got careless and picked it up wrong for one of the timed shots and the slide bit me. The second shot was a little off. I don't have that pistol anymore, I sold it to help pay for a Springfield XD that PillHer wanted. That little Walther was as accurate as anything I have ever seen. Again, it all came down to practice.

Mossyoak1957 · Post by **Mossyoak1957** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:09 pm

I must be old school, I still love my H&R 999 Sportsman and it's a blast with 22 shorts in it.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:41 pm

Mossyoak1957 wrote:I must be old school, I still love my H&R 999 Sportsman and it's a blast with 22 shorts in it.

MY H&R 999 SPORTSMAN IS THE ONLY GUN I'VE EVER DREAMED ABOUT. IT MAY BE THE ZENITH OF ALL THAT IS GOOD IN A 22 HANDGUN, PARTICULARLY IN A 22 REVOLVER. I COULD DO STUFF WITH MINE YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE. I WAS THERE AND DID NOT BELIEVE IT !!!!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:54 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:MY H&R 999 SPORTSMAN IS THE ONLY GUN I'VE EVER DREAMED ABOUT. IT MAY BE THE ZENITH OF ALL THAT IS GOOD IN A 22 HANDGUN, PARTICULARLY IN A 22 REVOLVER. I COULD DO STUFF WITH MINE YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE. I WAS THERE AND DID NOT BELIEVE IT !!!!

Someday I'd like to hear more about that gun and what you could wring out of it; I've got one I picked up recently due to memories of a friend and gun-mentor letting me shoot his 40 years ago, and it I can't (yet) get it to shoot very accurately, but am looking forward to more range-time with it.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:06 pm

Terry, I know you don't need anyone backing you up but you are 100% dead on as usual when you say that you can't buy accuracy. It must be developed over time spent shooting. Well stated. Any 22 I have had has shown me that they are capable of uncanny accuracy. I agree too with the comment on the walther pp. I have owned three, hoping against hope that I would get one to stand up to constant use. I haven't found one yet. My old little berreta 22 was one of the best little shooters in the semi auto (small) dept. And again your dead right about the new S&W. My experience is exactly the same. One of the best ever! As always, I appreciate your decades of experience.

Cruise · Post by **Cruise** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:38 pm

[quote="Lastmohecken"]I think If I could own just one .22 it would be a Smith and Wesson model 17-2 K22, as I still believe they are about the finest ever made.

I have a K-22 as well. It is as Lastmohecken describes: One Sierra Hotel handgun. I've had mine for years and would not part with it. Do not know current value or what is available on the usual sites.

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:51 pm

Well, I've resisted this as long as I can - for no good reason, really -

Not exactly a handgun, but about 30 years ago, I watched an Uncle take a winchester Semi Auto .22lr rifle and kill 14 dogs out of a pack which were running and attacking his cattle. 14 shots, 14 head shot dogs. He reloaded, it was the kind which you loaded through the cutout on the side of the stock and the magazine follower went into the end of the stock,

Winchester made two models like that -#63 and #74 - the latter being less expensive - but was available for only long rifle cartridges and the other one was for 22 shorts only. Depression days so I opted for the one that shot shorts - those being half as expensive, as I mentioned above. Good gun and was unique in that it loaded in the butstock as noted but also, the bolt was easily removed for easy cleaning jobs - got a lot of rabbits and prairie dogs with mine. Don't remember the cost but I seldom had much more that $20 at any given time then.

H&R revolvers are mentioned and I happened to be in the gun store in time to buy their last Buntline Special ( really a 686 with a 12" barrel) - couldn't resist - have cylinders for standard 22 ammo and another for 22 magnums.

SA in looks and action but also fires DA.

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:15 am

i just missed an H & R just like that at a gun show, a few years ago. just as the show opened it went for $95 and i think that was a steal.....thought it would be a real shooter, probably is.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:26 am

Question for you folks on the H&R's concerning durability. Heard reports on the star on the cylinder wearing and haveing noticed wear on the one I have (949). What have you folks seen in this?

As for TERRY. While I'll agree you "generally" can't buy accuracy but there is NO DOUBT that some guns are more accurate and other are easier to shoot more accurately.

THE GUN ITSELF MEANS darned NEAR NOTHING !!!!

Bull pucky. Going buy what you say I should be able to set benchrest records with a factory 10/22 carbine. Forgot, you probably already have.

Haven't seen you shoot, haven't seen or fired the Bersa you claim will pick off blackbirds all day long at 35 yards or the VALTER PP22(?) that will stack shots in the same hole at 25 yards but I'll be darned if you are gonna do it consistently with my Bersa. There are very few rimfire rifles and even fewer shooters that can claim what you claim with rifles let alone with the Bersa example I have. Could I shoot the Bersa better than I am currently shooting it with more practice. Hell yes. I can also do it buy buying a better, more accurate gun, easier to shoot accurately gun. And you know what, with equal practice I'll always be more accurate with the second gun.

As for your personal comments. You have no idea of my experience, my physical nature, my likes, dislikes, wants and needs. I don't want to own or even try to own a hundred different rimfire pistols and could care less if you have. I could also care less what you think is silly "for me". For all I care you can take your crotchety old butt and crawl back under the rock you came out of. You sir should be doing a few "beggin your pardons".

I can't believe that anyone would ever make the blanket statements you have made with many being entirely false.

LK

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:10 am

L_Kilkenny wrote:Question for you folks on the H&R's concerning durability. Heard reports on the star on the cylinder wearing and haveing noticed wear on the one I have (949). What have you folks seen in this?

As for TERRY. While I'll agree you "generally" can't buy accuracy but there is NO DOUBT that some guns are more accurate and other are easier to shoot more accurately.
THE GUN ITSELF MEANS darned NEAR NOTHING !!!!
Bull pucky. Going buy what you say I should be able to set benchrest records with a factory 10/22 carbine. Forgot, you probably already have.

Haven't seen you shoot, haven't seen or fired the Bersa you claim will pick off blackbirds all day long at 35 yards or the VALTER PP22(?) that will stack shots in the same hole at 25 yards but I'll be darned if you are gonna do it consistently with my Bersa. There are very few rimfire rifles and even fewer shooters that can claim what you claim with rifles let alone with the Bersa example I have. Could I shoot the Bersa better than I am currently shooting it with more practice. Hell yes. I can also do it buy buying a better, more accurate gun, easier to shoot accurately gun. And you know what, with equal practice I'll always be more accurate with the second gun.

As for your personal comments. You have no idea of my experience, my physical nature, my likes, dislikes, wants and needs. I don't want to own or even try to own a hundred different rimfire pistols and could care less if you have. I could also care less what you think is silly "for me". For all I care you can take your crotchety old butt and crawl back under the rock you came out of. You sir should be doing a few "beggin your pardons".

I can't believe that anyone would ever make the blanket statements you have made with many being entirely false.

LK

AAAHAHHH....THE TRUTH WILL OUT AND HERE IT IS FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE. I DO NOT LIVE UNDER A ROCK BUT I HAVE HAD TO PUT UP WITH NINNIES TALKING ABOUT THINGS THEY EVIDENTLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOR SIX DECADES NOW. YOU CAN INSULT ME [ LOTSA LAUGHS THERE ] ALL YOU WANT BUT I DO NOT APOLOGISE TO THOSE WHO TELL OUT-AND-OUT LIES ABOUT ME. FURTHERMORE I AM NOT CROTCHETY BUT I AM SHORT WITH THOSE WHO WASTE THE BOARDS TIME WITH DRIVEL. IF YOU CANNOT SHOOT, CANNOT ASK PERTINENT QUESTIONS, AND NEED CONSTANT REASSURANCE DON'T POST SILLYNESS AMONG THOSE THAT CAN THINKING YOU'LL PICK UP THE " SECRETS " FOR FREE.
AND SO IT GOES....

JB · Post by JB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:30 am

Of the options you listed, I'd go with a Ruger auto for general accuracy, but a single six for pure fun and toughness. I carry my stainless single six when I trap, but it can't compete with my old slabside MkII in the accuracy department.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:39 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:OH....BEFORE I FORGET : THE TWO WORST 22 PISTOLS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE WERE THE WALTHER P22 OF WHICH 7000 ROUNDS TURNED IT INTO A RATTLING HULK P O S. IT WAS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT I'D PAID FOR IT, A ONE DOLLAR RAFFLE TICKET. AFTER S&W REBUILT THE GUN IN TOTAL I GAVE THE PIECE OF TRASH AWAY SO NO ONE COULD ACCUSE ME OF SELLING 'EM A CLUNKER.

[ MY KIMBER GOLD MATCH 45 IS JUST AS BIG A PIECE OF TRASH TOO !!!!! ]

If it would help, GIVE ME that Kimber Gold Match piece of trash. I couldn't bear the thought of any one accusing you of selling 'em a clunker!