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Water can be injected into internal combustion engines which will increase mass flow through the engine and thereby increase power.
Umm...I don't think so. All water injection does in an internal combustion engine is allow you to advance the spark considerably and use water to limit predetonition, thereby increasing power.
In internal combustion engines, water injection, also known as anti-detonant injection, is spraying water into the cylinder or incoming fuel-air mixture to cool the combustion chambers of the engine, allowing for greater compression ratios and largely eliminating the problem of engine knocking (detonation). This effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel, meaning that performance gains can be obtained when used in conjunction with a supercharger, turbocharger, altered spark ignition timing, and other modifications. Increasing the octane rating allows for a higher compression ratio which increases the power output and efficiency of the engine. Depending on the engine, improvements in power and fuel efficiency can also be obtained solely by injecting water.[1] Water injection may also be used to reduce NOx or carbon monoxide emissions.
If powder absorbes water, it will swell and grow in volume for a given energy potential....and the H2O will slow down the burn a bit.
Both of which will reduce the potential for an overloaded charge. You can't fit as much "swelled" powder in a volumetric container so you will have a lower pressure charge and the moisture will reduce the pressure again.
But we are talking infantisimal amounts here. Unless the pwder was stored totally improperly. I live right on the Atlantic ocean and store my powder in a wooden locker in a relatively damp basement and have used powder stored in this environment after ten years and it still performs in my 6BR benchrest rifle the same as "new" powder. No difference in velocity or POI.
Yes, it does all that too, but water is denser than air, and I don't see how injecting it into the intake would not increase mass flow through the engine. The anti-detonant aspect is interesting as it might relate to the powder charge behavior. But I think you are right that the amount of moisture we're talking about here is probably insignificant.
"That's not a particularly good idea, unless you are dealing strictly with blackpowder substitutes, which are the ONLY powders designed to be used on a volume basis"
Not entirely accurate. DuPont used to make a "Bulk Smokelss Power" for shotshell.
Lee dip measures throw rather conservative loads enough so that as long as one is using the right powders it is extremely unlikely that one will get a dangerous overload or underload. A dangerous load is far more likely to occur because of other reasons. Impossible? Nothing is impossible. Think about how often powder or ammo companies have recalled products because the products themself were unsafe if used as directed, even if we weighed each charge precisely.
Most commercial powder is loaded with volumetric powder measures. They are safe as long as you adjust them right.
I have used one of the old Redding #3 measures for 51 years. I set the powder measures to throw a weighed charge of powder. I commonly load handgun ammo in 5,000 round batches occassionally testing a charge on a scale to check consistency. I have yet to find a charge that varied more than 1/10 grain on the scales. You just need to know your measure. Any charge that feels a bit 'funny' when thrown gets dumped back in the hopper and rethrown.
BAGTIC wrote:"Not entirely accurate. DuPont used to make a "Bulk Smokelss Power" for shotshell.
.
They also made "semismokeless" but neither one was intended to be used on a volume basis , and neither one is still available in a usable amount outside of what some collector might have stuffed in their collection, so it ends up just so much addo about nuttin....
Looks like Lee has stopped making an Auto Disk that is table top mounted and only has the press mounted models currently in production. So cross the Auto Disk off my list unless someone has a way to use it on a hand press .
Also, due to Doc's points I'm not gonna give up on a scale. To sum up my thinkin at this point, from my experience I have little doubt that a powder measure is reliable enough and IMO any changes in powder drastic enough to be dangerous are going to be dangerous regardless of the method used. But the better safe than sorry montra as a double check of my set up and the powder measure function isn't gonna hurt and can do nothing but save some headaches. It's also easier to set up a traditional powder measure with the aid of a scale and I don't know how one could adjust the charge bar on a measure with any consistantly day to day if they were to not use a scale.
I will be investing in an easier to use scale than the ol' Lee Beam. Any recommendations for a fairly inexpensive yet decent e-scale? Prefer battery powered.
I got one of the digital scales that Cabela's sells under their own brand, I don't like it for powder as well as a good balance beam scale (but it is a great tool for weighing cast bullets). My Redding scale I bought new 40 some odd years ago is still my favored way to weigh powder. Have several powder measures, but the Lee perfect I bought when they first came out is the most consistant of the other mechanical ones I own.
You can also spend a wee bit more and get the electric scale and measure all in one unit, I do have high reguards for my Lyman 1200 dps system.
I weigh most things now, got one of those RCBS charge master things in a barter. But I still use my Lee measure alot along with a Hornady scale. Its very reliable in my experience with most powders. Its not happy with long extruded's though. But I still weigh every 10th one even when useing something like BLC2 that meters perfectly for me. But I'd like to add that, as others have noted, that humidity can & does effect the weight of a given volume. I havent experimented with it but if its variable, as volumetric measuring can be, then is either really that much more dangerous than the other when being done by a competent reloader? Isn't it possible that x grains of powder that equals 1cc on a humid day but 1.1 cc on a dry day could end up being over max for someone right on the edge? I'd think that more volume was more powder even if the weight was the same. That said, Personally I feel its safer to constantly check my dropped charges with a scale. But I know guys who pump out several hundred rounds at a time from progressives, some of them are here. I seriously doubt they are checking near as much as me. But I dont feel I can call them irresponsible or unsafe. Theres alot of things a reloader needs to consider. From what I hear those disk measures are very repeatable & reliable. I think if a person used one wisely, by choosing a powder & charge that was not right on the edge its probably fine. But you still NEED a scale in order to make sure initially that the thing is dropping what its suposed to & to examine how & if the drop changes as the powder column gets shorter. Conversly choosing a powder with 1/2 grain between max & min charges wouldn't be real smart nor would choosing a load at or near max. Like most things I think it would bil down to the operator more than the tool.
L_Kilkenny wrote:Looks like Lee has stopped making an Auto Disk that is table top mounted and only has the press mounted models currently in production. So cross the Auto Disk off my list unless someone has a way to use it on a hand press .
My RCBS powder measures came with a piece of 1/8" thick steel, maybe 1-1/4" wide, and 6" long, that had a hole in each end about an inch in diameter. You could mount the measure on one end (end was threaded, or with the Lee you can just use the 'powder-thru' rifle die), and the other slipped under the nut on the reloading die, or under the 'reducer' on the RockChucker that drops from 1-1/2" (or whatever) to normal die diameter. I think they also sold a sort of 'stand' that was the same thing attached to something to hold it up off your bench.
Anyway, I don't know how much you like the Auto Disk (I love mine), but if you really like it, it would be a piece-of-cake and maybe $10 'project' to mount it on the bench or on a single-stage press. When I was using that measure, I just screwed the described mount to a section of 2x4 on a flat base, because I didn't want my dies on the Rockchucker to be set to require that extra thickness of metal - one more 'variable' I don't need in reloading.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws "first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
BAGTIC wrote:"Not entirely accurate. DuPont used to make a "Bulk Smokelss Power" for shotshell.
.
They also made "semismokeless" but neither one was intended to be used on a volume basis , and neither one is still available in a usable amount outside of what some collector might have stuffed in their collection, so it ends up just so much addo about nuttin....
I don't care if you never load to the max, never take any OTHER chances, etc... It seems to me that deliberately loading without a scale to double check the supposed volumetric accuracy is negligence. Sure, people load great volumes of powder using measures which are based on the volume of a given space BUT, even the loading companies do so with much background testing as appropriate. How can we, as reloaders, not knowing for certain where or in what our ammo will ultimately be shot do any less? That is why for 51 years I have had a rule of never shooting someone else's reloads in my guns. I don't know what gun they were loaded for and I don't know what load was used, regardless of weighed or volume measured. I don't even know if the source filled them with Bullseye or 5010. That is why I will never shoot anyone else's reloads. Not even yours.
Progressive loader users check their measures constantly and when they don't we get to read about a few of those incidents and it is never to the good, one way or the other. Some have recounted in this very forum how they narrowly avoided a life changing misfortune connected to damaged, malfunctioning or incorrectly set measures. Likewise for single stage loaders or do they never screw up?
I know that for every time a question is asked, 10 others have had the same thought and a percentage have surely acted on it without further review. Most every shortcut is proposed out of a desire to save money or work. I, for one, don't want to be remembered at my funeral as that cheap, lazy, stupid so-and-so. Worse yet would be to know that I was the cause of another's maiming or death due to my inability to step up and do what is right.
Now, I know you said, "...I rarely if ever load to the max and am almost as likely to be shooting a reduced load." Uh huh... Sooner or later you will come to want to do something closer to the edge and lacking the correct equipment to do so will be tempted and fail to resist that temptation to go ahead. How do you know what I or anyone else will or will not do in the future. It seems presumptuous. In 51 years I haven't and I don't intend to start now.
As for Mr. Lee's well-written article supporting volumetric measurement it is my opinion that he often is very good at making a shortcoming into a "feature". I use some of his stuff, but it is what it is, no more and no less. The same applies to volumetric measuring of powder (or anything else), when the measuring tool is properly sized to the material being weighed and the machine/tools are properly operated all is well but when we fail to maintain, double-check (do quality control checks) or take other short cuts WHEN WE HAD THE ABILITY TO DO THE JOB CORRECTLY AND NO NEED FOR SHORTCUTS we do ourselves and others around us a disservice.
I personally dip and throw every charge into a scale to weigh the charge. I have thus loaded many 10s of thousands of rounds. I have seen what every one of those charges was and I can not see my way clear to rely on volumetric measuring alone.
I also suggest that you get a set of scale check weights.
QUOTE OF THE DAY - "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots."
In the case that I mentioned volumetric reloading it was by very experienced reloaders who established within well tested and understood parameters exactly what they were loading down to lot #s. They then made adjustments within narrow parameters by volume and in making adjustments were not going by weight necessarily. But, you can be assured they had a very good idea where they were. I could load a certain 270 load with a certain powder by opening the measure all the way open and .... that would be 56.3 grains. Very repeatable with that powder - I used a lot of it at one time. I weigh almost every load with rifles. Just discussing in my case the dynamics - or wondering - of volume vs weight. Always be careful reloading. All the precautions are right.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...
BAGTIC wrote:"Not entirely accurate. DuPont used to make a "Bulk Smokelss Power" for shotshell.
.
They also made "semismokeless" but neither one was intended to be used on a volume basis , and neither one is still available in a usable amount outside of what some collector might have stuffed in their collection, so it ends up just so much addo about nuttin....
.
