1894 Problem

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:42 am

I'm hoping that someone on here can supply me with an answer and maybe a fix. I have a Winchester 1894 Legacy in .45 Colt and quite often when in the process of chambering a round, another round slips under the carrier and jams the whole thing up. The action then needs to be dismantled to clear this jam. The rifle is not very old, a couple of years, and hasn't shot much. Mainly because it's a pain in the.... when this happens. My question is why is this happening and how can I remedy the problem? Grateful for any advice.

JBledsoe · Post by **JBledsoe** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:08 am

.

The cartridge stop on the bottom link may be broken or worn down. Try a different link and see if that helps. The picture below shows where to look.

Hope that helps.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:24 am

It's most likely the cartridge stop on the end of the lever link. You can pull the front/lowest screw to check it without disassembling further.

Winchester is good about replacing this part free. You can also weld/braze the little tit up and shape it for a more permanent fix. It seems that this is mostly an issue on the short cartridge chamberings. Perhaps the angle of how they hit the cartridge base and a poor casting of the lever link combine to cause this.

The cartridge stop is the little tit on the lower left in the pic:

And here's a broken one on a 357 with just that front screw removed.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:00 am

The cartridge stop is the culprit, however besides being broken or worn there is another cause. Tolerance stack up. Our own Nate Kiowa Jones has said he's found many of these just so sloppy they don't work. He said something to the effect that had to re-fit the parts and make a larger screw to keep it right.
Replacing the link might do it or have someone weld up the stop and then re-fit it to your gun.

Joe

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:45 pm

A new link might/might not fix it - I've had better luck via swadging the stop stud from the side, so it's a smidgen (technical term

) higher. If it's swedged too high to work, it can be stoned back to a working height.

.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:46 pm

J Miller wrote:The cartridge stop is the culprit, however besides being broken or worn there is another cause. Tolerance stack up. Our own Nate Kiowa Jones has said he's found many of these just so sloppy they don't work. He said something to the effect that had to re-fit the parts and make a larger screw to keep it right.
Replacing the link might do it or have someone weld up the stop and then re-fit it to your gun.

Joe

Hi Joe,
That stop on the front of the link is the problem for sure. What I found though is it was most common with the 357mag guns. The 44's and 45's being closer to the 30-30 dia. seem to work more consistent. My fix for the 357m gun was a new link but I would also ream the receiver and link for a tighter fitting pin to take up some of the slack. It sounds like this 45lc gun will need that as well.

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:01 am

Thanks all. The stop is neither broken nor worn, hasn't shot enough. I will check for slop in the pin though.
Thanks again.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:26 am

aussie wrote:Thanks all. The stop is neither broken nor worn, hasn't shot enough. I will check for slop in the pin though.
Thanks again.

As Nate sez, the .357 versions of the Winchester 94 were more of a problem than the larger rimmed 44 or 45s. However, just as with the .357 guns, the stop only needs to be a wee bit undersized to present the problem. New, unfired guns can exhibit this issue. It need not be worn or broken to present the problem. The stop is the ONLY part that keeps a cartridge from leaving the magazine.

However, on the top of the carrier is a tab, that fits in a slot on the bolt, during operation, it is what pulls up the carrier. When the lever is pulled back, the bolt is pushed forward; in turn releasing the carrier to be pushed back down by the carrier spring. If that spring has lost its spring, or the carrier is bound, either by improper alignment or gummed up with grit, grease or grime, the carrier won't snap back down fast enough for the cartridge that's about to be released from the magazine by that stop on the front of the link.

Those are the two issues that will cause a cartridge to end up under your carrier. If it is the cartridge stop, you'll feel the cartridge jump from the magazine as you push the lever foward. If it is the carrier timing, the cartridge will jump before the carrier can get down as the lever is brought back to the rearward position. The two are very close.

You, as the operator can be a factor also. Slow, deliberate movements can affect the dynamics of the action. Crisp, direct action will generally allow everything to operate at optimal speed. Don't be jerky, or hesitant, just deliberate, smooth working the lever should yield excellent results.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:28 am

great advice here--really like this forum

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:10 am

Aussie, I also have a Legacy in .45colt. I bought it new around ten years ago. my rifle did the same jam twice when new.once at a Family picnic that I really got a ribbing for

. one problem with mine is that the spring in the magazine was so strong that I could barely get 4 rounds in.I have laboured all My life and have fairly strong hands but it would bust my knuckles trying to get the mag loaded. I have 8 other lever's and none are even close in the effort to load. I read an article here and trimmed the mag spring down and the jam never happened again. here it is.http://www.time-slice.com/mohave.gamble ... ster94.htm

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:56 am

Took the 45 out today and it jammed even more frequently. When I got home, I stripped the lever/link assy out and replaced it with the one from my 30/30. Although the 30/30 has a different shape loop and wouldn't close all the way ( 45 is a Legacy, pistol grip), rounds cycled fine, no sign of jam. When I compared the tit at the end of the link, it was a different shape from the 30/30. Nowhere near as pronounced nor as angled upward. This appears to be the culprit. For the fix, I think I will add a little weld and reshape. Just thought you might like to know.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:05 am

What? I'm shocked... you didn't believe us?

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:43 am

Griff, it wasn't a matter of not believing, just that this rifle has only shot about 100 rounds and I didn't think Winchester quality was so poor. Guess I was wrong

. Guess you were right

Thanks again.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:11 am

Sounds like you found the culprit and have a plan to correct it. Let us know how it goes. Good luck.

retmech · Post by **retmech** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:07 pm

aussie wrote:Griff, it wasn't a matter of not believing, just that this rifle has only shot about 100 rounds and I didn't think Winchester quality was so poor. Guess I was wrong . Guess you were right Thanks again.

I put a new link in my .357 94AE when the first failed, it lasted less than 100 rds! I had a friend weld mine and I reshaped it. It's got a couple thousand rounds through it now and still works fine. Winchester turned out some real cr*p in their final years!

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:03 am

Well, welded the cartridge stop and reshaped it this afternoon. Works like a charm.

OD* · Post by OD* » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:09 am

aussie wrote:Well, welded the cartridge stop and reshaped it this afternoon. Works like a charm.

Good deal!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:19 pm

aussie wrote:Well, welded the cartridge stop and reshaped it this afternoon. Works like a charm.

Life is grand again!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:31 pm

Griff wrote:
aussie wrote:Well, welded the cartridge stop and reshaped it this afternoon. Works like a charm.
Life is grand again!

Yesireee!

Oh, by the way, where's your pics?

JBledsoe · Post by **JBledsoe** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:08 am

.

Winchester's quality control was actually pretty good but as with any factory a mistake can slip by. I have one with a mis-formed lever that cannot be fired and has never been fired, not even test fired by the factory. A friend has one with a 45 cal barrel but no chamber was ever cut in it. Obviously never fired, either. Fertilizer happens.

.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:12 pm

I have one I need to weld. What did you use? Bronze?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:34 pm

Tycer wrote:I have one I need to weld. What did you use? Bronze?

Use an arc welder or tig to build up some steel... if you use bronze it'll wear too fast again. On the one I needed to do (about 20+ years ago, I used what was called "hard-facing" rod. Was a bear to file back down... but still running fine!

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:32 pm

I've never tried to tig weld to cast iron.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:15 pm

Tycer wrote:I've never tried to tig weld to cast iron.

That should be steel... not iron.

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:17 am

Tycer, I arc welded it to build up some steel then ground down to the shape required, as Griff said. And yes, it should be steel not cast iron. Really was pretty easy.
aussie.

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