.444 Questions

[kmittleman]

Hi Guys,



Sorry in advance as I'm sure this has been asked before. I'm very intrigued with the idea of a big bore and like that I could use some of my .44 mag pistol bullets to load for the .444. But, I want to ask, is the .444 lower in the recoil dept than the .45-70? Also, I've heard the .444 has a sharper kick and the .45-70 has more of a push - is this true? Which is more pleasant to shoot? I want to use it for larger game. Also, are the newer ones from Remlin as junky as they say?

-Kevin

[6pt-sika]

I have a small herd of 444's and a 45-70 . To me the 444 is less recoil then the 45-70 .

As to the present manufacture ones I cannot say as my newest was made in 2001 and all the rest were made from 1964 to 1975 .

Now with that being said I shoot a wide variety of cast bullets in my 444's anything from 207 grains all the way up to 400 grains !

Granted the 375 and 400 grainers do have a bit more recoil then the normal run of the mill 444 projectiles .

As to jacketed I shot 240 up to 300 grain and they FOR ME were all relatively mild in the recoil department .

[AJMD429]

I'd always heard that the .444 Marlin using 'pistol' JSP bullets was just going to make those fragile bullets blow-up on the skin, and wound the animal, without penetrating enough for a clean kill. Now I could see a 'varmint grenade' type frangible bullet doing that, especially going 3000 fps out of a 6mm Remington or something, but a few years ago, any lingering doubt about the ability of the .444 to do the job with those wimpy bullets vanished when I shot the 100-yard gong, that I've dented many times with a .44 Mag Marlin rifle using the same bullet at about 1700 fps or so.

This gong is 3/8" (don't know hardness) at 100 yards.

The 'almost through' craters were 200 grain hardcast lead .358 SWC at slightly under 2000 fps or thereabouts from a .357 Max.

(The 'clean cut' holes were 240 gr. factory soft points from the Marlin 444.)



The good news is NOW whenever I miss the 100 yard big gong, I can say "the bullet must have gone through one of them HOLES in it..."

As for 'recoil', I can't tell the difference between my Guide Gun and my regular-size .444 Marlin, though the loads I tend to use in .45-70 aren't particularly 'hot' ones.

I think you'd notice a WAY bigger difference in 'recoil' depending on the particular load you used, what clothing you were wearing, and what mood you were in, than you would between the two chamberings.

[6pt-sika]

I'd always heard that the .444 Marlin using 'pistol' JSP bullets was just going to make those fragile bullets blow-up on the skin, and wound the animal, without penetrating enough for a clean kill. Now I could see a 'varmint grenade' type frangible bullet doing that, especially going 3000 fps out of a 6mm Remington or something, but a few years ago, any lingering doubt about the ability of the .444 to do the job with those wimpy bullets vanished when I shot the 100-yard gong, that I've dented many times with a .44 Mag Marlin rifle using the same bullet at about 1700 fps or so.

I got the 434-207GC mold and proceeded to load them up as hot as I thought safe in one of my old 444's . Used H322 with a goodly amount . Anyway my loads were in the 2600-2800 neighborhood and I was thinking they might grenade on the outside of a deer so I went waterquenched wheelweights . One day last year during my DCP hunting I knocked over three whitetail slicks in about 90 seconds all within 35 yards of me . All three were pass thru shots and one of them was facing me !
My grenade was a complete pass thru stem to stern !

[6pt-sika]

I think you'd notice a WAY bigger difference in 'recoil' depending on the particular load you used, what clothing you were wearing, and what mood you were in, than you would between the two chamberings[/b].

Lets just say it's a given that all my loads whether for the 444 or 45-70 are warm or more .

I can give you one of my 444's with a factory recoil pad and my Marlin 1895 45-70 with the curved hard rubber buttplate and you will see a marked difference . Hence my reason for getting a second stock and putting a big old fat KickEez pad on the 1895 for bench work

With the recoil pad on the 45-70 it's a pleasure to shoot . But my loads are still gonna move you a bit . Especially the one with the 550 grain cast bullets !

[tman]

Weight of the gun, weight of your bullet, amount of powder behind it. My Bigbore94 .444 kicks like a mule with Rem factory loads. My 86 src 45-70 is tame with 300gr hp. at 2200 fps. It's all relative. Of couse when shooting at game neither has any felt recoil.

[tman]

The 94 has a factory recoil pad. The 86 has the curved steel SRC buttplate.

[6pt-sika]

The 94 has a factory recoil pad. The 86 has the curved steel SRC buttplate.

Shoot some of my handloads in your 86 and I think you may have a differing opinion

While they aren't bad in my rifle that curved steel buttplate will be your undoing based on what I felt with the curved rubber buttplate that came on my circa 1972 Marlin 1895 .

The year I got that thing I shot it 20-30 times a day for almost 3 weeks straight working up loads with four seperate cast bullets . It also still had the curved rubber plate and the darn thing put a knot in my shoulder ! Thank god it was in the summer and gave my shoulder enough time to recuperate for hunting season arrived

[tman]

The 94 has a factory recoil pad. The 86 has the curved steel SRC buttplate.

Shoot some of my handloads in your 86 and I think you may have a differing opinion

While they aren't bad in my rifle that curved steel buttplate will be your undoing based on what I felt with the curved rubber buttplate that came on my circa 1972 Marlin 1895 .

The year I got that thing I shot it 20-30 times a day for almost 3 weeks straight working up loads with four seperate cast bullets . It also still had the curved rubber plate and the darn thing put a knot in my shoulder ! Thank god it was in the summer and gave my shoulder enough time to recuperate for hunting season arrived

Thank's. I'll take u up on your generous offer when TREX comes back to my neck of the woods Until then, i like my shoulder where it is just fine

[tman]

I'd always heard that the .444 Marlin using 'pistol' JSP bullets was just going to make those fragile bullets blow-up on the skin, and wound the animal, without penetrating enough for a clean kill. Now I could see a 'varmint grenade' type frangible bullet doing that, especially going 3000 fps out of a 6mm Remington or something, but a few years ago, any lingering doubt about the ability of the .444 to do the job with those wimpy bullets vanished when I shot the 100-yard gong, that I've dented many times with a .44 Mag Marlin rifle using the same bullet at about 1700 fps or so.

This gong is 3/8" (don't know hardness) at 100 yards.

The 'almost through' craters were 200 grain hardcast lead .358 SWC at slightly under 2000 fps or thereabouts from a .357 Max.

(The 'clean cut' holes were 240 gr. factory soft points from the Marlin 444.)



The good news is NOW whenever I miss the 100 yard big gong, I can say "the bullet must have gone through one of them HOLES in it..."

As for 'recoil', I can't tell the difference between my Guide Gun and my regular-size .444 Marlin, though the loads I tend to use in .45-70 aren't particularly 'hot' ones.

I think you'd notice a WAY bigger difference in 'recoil' depending on the particular load you used, what clothing you were wearing, and what mood you were in, than you would between the two chamberings.

I had heard the same urban ledgend about the 240 rem soft pionts. Guess u proved them wrong, thanks

[Old Time Hunter]

Have had good luck with 240 JSP's, not so good with JHP's in my .444 loads with 46 grains of H4198.

The JHP's splatter all over the place, whereas the JSP's seem to retain quite a bit more of their mass.

Load out of my 94 Timber Carbine @ 15' is 2320fps ave over 20 rounds, out of my 94 Black Shadow they averaged 2344 fps over 20 rounds.

[muddydog]

I have a .444 model 94 big bore XTR and to be honest it is my favorite woods rifle. I really only shoot the standard remington load and without hesitation can say that the load has done everything I could have possibly imagined.

The recoil is remarkably light, even with no pad. my 10 year old shoots it regularly with no problem. The rifle is spooky accurate with open sights. I have a XS tritium small dot front and a standard aftermarket williams open sight on the rear. I like it so much next year I will probably buy my son his own and buy myself a marlin standard model so I can mount a good low power scope on it.

I have shot dozens of deer and hogs and it hits like lightening, with an immediate crush but with very little meat waste. Everyone at my cabin has commented on the lack of waste from the impact. Every bullet has been a complete pass thru even with those that have been chest to ham shots fully transversing the body. Not one deer has gone more than 10 feet after the shot, most hit the ground right there and flex. no kicking or thrashing. just flex out and die.

I have always wondered about the info regarding the remington loads ineffeficencies, maybe on moose or bigger but sofar even on 300lb pigs they have held up fine.

[BAGTIC]

Is Remington .444 ammo still using the same light construction pistol bullets they used when the round was first introduced.

Punching steel is not the same as penetrating flesh. Velocity is much more effective against steel while weight is more important for deep penetration. When I bought my first centerfire rifle in 1955 (a .222 Remington) I got a kick out of showing up my uncle with his .303 Enfield. I was shooting the little 50 grain Sierra Blitz bullets while he was shooting FMJ mil surplus. The Blitx is so lightly constructed that friends have told me it comes apart in air at .22-250 velocities but it would out penetrate the .303.

[tman]

The 240 .444 remington has both weight and velocity.I don't imagine an animal with a tougher hide than a 3/8 steel plate.

[41 Redhawk]

Is Remington .444 ammo still using the same light construction pistol bullets they used when the round was first introduced.

Someone posted on this at Marlinowners forum awhile back. Apparently Remington changed to a tougher 240 grain bullet for the 444. That bullet is not available as a component for reloading and I believe Remington has discontinued the 240 grain loading all together now.

[Aussie Chris]

444 Marlin is my sambar medicine. With a peep sight and my 265gn Hornady Interlocks, aint no sambar within 100m safe. A sambar is no small deer...