DIY cold bluing - An experiment

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FatJackDurham
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DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

After testing a DIY cold blue product yesterday, I decided to go ahead and try to clean up some corrosion damage on a Rossi 92 .357 Magnum I bought last week. I shot it for the first time today with .38 spl 158 grn LRN and .357 mag 158 gr FNSJ. It showed that I hadn't shot a gun in 5 years, but I was able to get my groups down to about a two inch diameter circle at 50 yards and a three inch diameter circle at 100 yards. The rifle loved the .38 special all around, but I was shocked by the trajectory. Even with the iron sights at at max elevation, they dove 8 inches at 100 yards. The gun hated to load and cycle the .357 flat nose rounds. However, they shot beautifully. At 25 and 50 yards, they grouped right level on the target. At 100 yards, at the third notch, they did good enough. All rounds shot to the right, and my group showed I was having trouble establishing a consistent vertical sight picture, but I am happy. I wish I had a peep sight and white bead.

Before blueing the barrel and magazine, I decided to break down the gun and clean every part. The only weapons I have worked with before were in the National Guard as an armor crewman. M4, M9, M240, .50 CAL, 105 Main Gun, 120 Main Gun. Of course, all military guns break down to exactly 10 parts for cleaning, and I liked that.

The Rossi 92, I found, is somewhat different.

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My setup included:
Birchwood Casey Blueing products
A cleaning kit
An iMac G5 Frankenputer for research
An iPod with Dave Chicoine's "Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly"
Music

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I was off to a good start, but I was seriously starting to sweat. Say what you want about the Govt. or the Milt., but the weapon selection process that requires weapons to be able to be broken down without tools easily and quickly is flippin' sweet. The Rossi, I was learning, was an amalgamation of screws, wood, steel and springs, designed essentially 120 years ago as a work of art.

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Seriously? I obviously over tightened the barrel band screw yesterday, and firing it must have further weakened it. Half of the head cracked off. I was able to extract it and I used a Dremel cutting wheel to add a quarter slot so I would be able to reinsert it. However, I don't think I can fire it until I replace it. Anyone know where to get one?

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The magazine plug was corroded around the rim, through the notch and under the lip. The kit instructions called for degreasing with something that smells like alcohol, rinsing in water, and then using a compound to strip the blueing and rust. The blue and rust remover smelled like common rust remover, which is basically phosphoric acid. After stripping, I used a Dremel with a flapper wheel attachment to polish and grind the metal down to a reasonable degree.

Before starting, I had to make a choice between quality and durability. The truth is, I am lazy, with poor attention to detail. I am usually satisfied with function over form. I knew from my test yesterday that the home blue product would not produce a rich, black, shiny, shiny luster like the factory finish. I could send the gun off for a professional job for several hundred dollars, or do it myself. Function over form. Steel on target first, pretty, shiny second. Just clean the rust.

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After stripping, sanding and a little grinding, the plug was effectively clean. The black spots are the areas of rust that didn't get sanded off, but were converted to an oxide from the initial acid treatment.

After removing the magazine from the receiver, I cleaned the bore and all parts with standard solvent. Yes, lead leaves schmootz in the barrel. I think I used every swatch in the kit.

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It's hard to take good photos with an eleven year old HP digital camera. This uninteresting photo is the completed plug. After degreasing and stripping, the process is to simply wipe on the cold bluing acid, rinse, spit and repeat. During yesterday's test, I experimented with heating the target metal. While this got rid of lingering moisture, I didn't notice any difference in the bluing effect.

The directions suggesting LIGHTLY buffing with 0000 steel wool between treatments to smooth out the effect. This helps reduce splotching but it also removes a lot of the fresh blueing. What I found was about seven coats of blue, degreaser wipe down every two coats, steal wool between the first three coats, and then an oil wipe down after the last coat produced a result I could live with. I followed this formula more or less as I proceeded to the magazine and the barrel.

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I did the rest of the magazine after the plug. I stripped up to where there was pitting, ground with the flapper wheel, then wet sanded some at around 400 grit. No, I didn't polish to a high buff. Function over form, lazy, poor attention to detail, remember? Excuses, excuses. Look, I'm not painting a car with metallic enamel here. What I wanted was reduced pitting and rust protection, so get off my back.

You should know, at this point in the documentation process, I am sucking back on some home brew table wine.

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Again, the photo is rough. In person, the magazine looks good. There is a slight rainbow effect along the top, perhaps a reaction to long term, low level heating in proximity to the barrel. The pitting was most severe underneath. I didn't try to eliminate it all, because I didn't want to weaken the metal too much. The flapper wheel left strong grooves which were reasonably dulled with the wet sanding. The blueing process was frustratingly imprecise, but as I said, the addition of a final rubdown with gun oil created a decent finish. Time will tell if it is durable.

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I did the barrel the same as the magazine, but I noticed that the barrel bluing seemed a little more resistant to stripping. Furthermore, during the bluing process, there were many more rainbow colors and blotches. I tried and failed to capture this in a photo, so you'll have to take my word for it. My concern of the barrel was that I didn't want to strip all of the way back to the receiver and wondered how well the blue would blend. It came off like a very subtle mother of perl, with light and dark bands along the wet sand path. I like it, but it isn't the pure black of the original finish. The gun is a replica of an antique after all, and should look and be used, so I am not unhappy with what we in the IT field would call "visual artifacts".

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I reassembled the barrel/receiver assembly, including the broken screw. Phooey.

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Flipping' Dave Chicoine. I quote "Reassemble the rifle in the reverse order of above." Like. Hell. Putting the lever back in with the bolt was a nightmare. I don't even know how I did it, but I did. Putting the trigger assembly back was similarly demoralizing. However, after a total of six hours of work, I had my Interarms Rossi 92 .357 Magnum carbine back together.

The first cycle of the lever made my stomach jump. Binding, choppy, rough, however you want to describe it, I was scared I had permanently messed up my gun.

Again, the difference between a military grade weapon and a CAS replica may be the issue. My personal Beretta M9, I would run with almost no oil. Oil attracts dirt, dirt jams a gun. I fired hundreds of rounds through it with barely more than a wipe on the rails with a barely damp rag.

This Rossi seems to like a bit more juice. I noticed when I bought it that the bolt, the lever, the hammer and even the magazine follower where all visibly wet with oil. I applied oil to various parts and slides, and after about twenty cycles, the gun was back to the same smooth operation it had when I bought it.

Being a newbie to this model, I don't know what a "slicked up" model feels like, but I feel that I wish it was smoother with less oil.

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So there it is. I am happy. I don't think I added to the value of the gun. In fact, after many hours, I added a few careless scratches on the receiver. But the glaring rust and pitting has been subdued. The action still works, miraculously ( after a few tests with spent shells, maniacal giggling, and wife shaking her head ), and at first and second glance, the gun still looks nice.

I'd like to find a better .38 special round. Maybe learn to hand load. And the flat iron sights have to go. I think I'll be calling Nate Kiowa Jones next week to see what my options are.
Last edited by FatJackDurham on Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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kimwcook
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by kimwcook »

Looks good. Ya done good pilgrim.
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FatJackDurham
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

Wuh-huhn.
20cows
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by 20cows »

Looks like progress to me!
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J Miller
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by J Miller »

Lostowl05661,

The after pictures look a lot better than the before pics that's for sure.
Win 92s and the copies are a bear to get back together the first time, but it gets easier each time you do it.

For the broken screw, a super dandy CD that tells you all you need to know about the Rossi 92s and other parts contact Steve Young ( Nate Kiowa Jones ) here on the forum at: http://www.stevesgunz.com/

Joe
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Rimfire McNutjob
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

Well done. I enjoyed the write up.
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by Hagler »

Lostowl05661,

You did a great job.

To get the lever & breechbolt back in the rifle, put a Snap Cap, or a fired/ dummy round, in the chamber, and this will hold the ejector spring in compression. The uncompressed ejector spring is what is keeping you from fully closing the bolt.

If you have not downloaded it yet, then you should get your copy of the "Browning Field Service Manual" for the Browning B-92, from here:

http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm

Look for "Browning B-92 Field Service", and click on it for the "PDF" file. Often, the direct link:

http://stevespages.com/pdf/browning_b92.pdf

...does NOT work.

Shawn
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earlmck
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by earlmck »

Thanks for that entertaining post, Lostowl. You are going to be a fine addition to the group here. And danged if the rifle doesn't look quite a lot better after that work -- looked like the rust was eating her alive! Yeah, next thing might be to get a receiver sight put on -- that'll help with the shooting, though it seems you didn't do too bad at all with those open sights.

And now you have that thing ready for some shooting, the handloading will be a good step. My Rossi kinda' likes it best when I feed it with 38 cases but the bullet seated long so it is like a slightly short 357 round. Sometimes it takes a bit of experimenting to find what the gun likes best, and they all have their own little quirks. My buddy's Rossi feeds anything we put in it; mine sulls plumb up if the 357 ammo is a little on the long side and likes to give the occasional misfeed if you use a short 38 special round. But it is real slick with the ammo it likes!
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claybob86
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by claybob86 »

Nice write-up and pix. Thanks! :)
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by gamekeeper »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:Well done. I enjoyed the write up.
+ 1
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FatJackDurham
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

Thanks and you are welcome, you guys sort it out who gets what. Double thanks for the browning guide link. Wish I'd had it last night.

Aside, I see the forum computer edited my post a tad. I've gone back through and correct a couple of words to not irritate the admins. Don't want to get in trouble.

I'm going to order the DVD and screw from Nate on Monday, I want to shoot again and final tweak the sights to at least get shooting on center. I'll work on my sight picture, too, and hopefully post a one inch group soon.
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by AJMD429 »

The posts from experienced experts we get here are inspiring, and help us see what magic can be done, but the posts from first-timers who are just trying to salvage a gun and make a 'shooter' out of it, are no less inspiring, and realistically, are far more likely to motivate the rest of us to try our own project.

You not only did what seems to be to be a great job on the repair, but you wrote it up with detail and humor. :mrgreen:

I had a physics professor in college whose tests were all 'essay' format, and no matter how well you answered the question, you'd get at most a 90%, so a B-or-less was pretty much a guarantee unless. . . you made it entertaining to read. He would add up to 10% to whatever your score was, if he found it entertaining or humorous to read. I depended on an academic scholarship, so I couldn't stay in college without a 3.75 gpa, and that physics class probably nutured my 'creative writing' skills ten times as much as all the 'literature' classes I'd taken over the years!
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Griff
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by Griff »

kimwcook wrote:Looks good. Ya done good pilgrim.
+1. Great write-up!

My favorite site for specific info on both the Rossi 1892 and the Marlin 1894 is Marauders's Rifle Hints. Steve @ Steve's Guns, (Nate Kiowa Jones) can probably get you that replacement band screw. He's also got what I understand is an excellent DVD guide for working on yer Rossi, including smoothing out its well-known idiosycracies.
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stickfred
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by stickfred »

Nice work on bringing that rifle back and saving it from the rust Lostowl05661. Also, big THANKS for the extra time and energy it took to share it. Seeing work like this helps provide confidence when facing a project for the first time. Looks like "wining" during the course of this didn't hurt one bit.

Thanks again.

Rick
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GonnePhishin
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by GonnePhishin »

You did one heck of a job :D
I have always wondered how to cold blue steel and your pictures and description made it look easy.
Thanks and enjoy shooting her.
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rodeo kid
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by rodeo kid »

Good job buckaroo! :D God Bless.
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SteveR
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by SteveR »

Very nice, that pitting came out pretty decently. Great write-up, I love when folks do things and find they are good at it too!!

I am going to set up a hot blue set up this spring-summer. I too started with cold blues and sandpaper, files. Then I moved up to a buffer and now I want to try our hot blueing. Maybe even build a rust box.

Steve
FatJackDurham
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

SteveR wrote:Very nice, that pitting came out pretty decently. Great write-up, I love when folks do things and find they are good at it too!!

I am going to set up a hot blue set up this spring-summer. I too started with cold blues and sandpaper, files. Then I moved up to a buffer and now I want to try our hot blueing. Maybe even build a rust box.

Steve
When you get set up, I'd be happy to have you practice on mine.
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SteveR
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by SteveR »

Lostowl05661 wrote:
SteveR wrote:Very nice, that pitting came out pretty decently. Great write-up, I love when folks do things and find they are good at it too!!

I am going to set up a hot blue set up this spring-summer. I too started with cold blues and sandpaper, files. Then I moved up to a buffer and now I want to try our hot blueing. Maybe even build a rust box.

Steve
When you get set up, I'd be happy to have you practice on mine.
That would be awesome, I will let you know when I get things set up and we will figure out the details. I don't think you are very far from me. I am just south of Albany and I was working near Bennington earlier this week.

Steve
FatJackDurham
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

Weird.... Another SteveR so close.
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by JerryB »

You did a great job saving a fine carbine and bringing it back to life.I bought an Interarms 92 .357 four years ago that had ten rounds run through it. sat in a safe till I bought it. I have put a lot of rounds through it and it is a real winner. I bought Steve's DVD and the ejector spring, talking to him on the phone he said that is the main reason they are so stiff.Tried to use it cowboy shooting and could not find the brass, it sure is slick now after all the honing and polishing.
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FatJackDurham
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

Thanks. I am very happy with my purchase.

What do you mean you couldn't find the brass? To load your own?

I have the DVD on order. I read Dave Chicoines "Guns of the New West" and based on his observations, I decided on the 357. I have a feeling, this gun will be a constant experiment. I am already mulling over ways to deal with the oversized dovetail slots. I am determined to get a bullseye ghost ring on this.... Well see.
FatJackDurham
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by FatJackDurham »

Thanks. I am very happy with my purchase.

What do you mean you couldn't find the brass? To load your own?

I have the DVD on order. I read Dave Chicoines "Guns of the New West" and based on his observations, I decided on the 357. I have a feeling, this gun will be a constant experiment. I am already mulling over ways to deal with the oversized dovetail slots. I am determined to get a bullseye ghost ring on this.... Well see.
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Re: DIY cold bluing - An experiment

Post by John Y Cannuck »

Looks superb, the newer cold bluing stuff gets better all the time. Years ago when I was cold bluing, I found that warming the metal was a big help. Quite warm, still handle-able, but quite warm. Some guys use a propane torch for this, or a paint strip gun.
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