Thoughts and opinions on the Winchester 66

[handirifle]

It's the gold plated one, rifle, not carbine. I know as collectibles there isn't much to shout about, but what about their value as a rifle? Was the 66 a good model, what are the goods and bads on them?

[Buck Elliott]

The original Winchester 66 was called the "improved Henry" rifle, by the folks at Winchester. It featured a bronze ("gunmetal") frame, and was in most features identical to the 1860 Henry rifle.. The "improvements" consisted of the King's Patent loading gate in the receiver, plus a closed tube magazine, and the addition of a wooden fore-end.. The '66 was chambered for the same cartridge as the original Henry rifle: the relatively mild-shooting .44 Henry Rimfire Flat, so-called because of the flat-nosed bullets with which it was loaded.. most of the final 1,000 of the '66's production run were chambered for the newer .44 Henry Centerfire Flat cartridge, and were destined for the South American market..
The locking mechanism of the 66 is identical to that of the Henry, consisting of toggle links, operated by carnking the lever.. The 66 was supplanted in 1873 by a newer version of the same basic rifle, featuring a longer, stonger, iron receiver, and chambering the new, justly-famous .44 W.C.F. (.44-40) cartridge..
The top of the 66 receiver is open, lacking the dust cover found on almost all 73s.
Other "good" or "bad" points would depend on your expectations and use of the rifle...

[gamekeeper]

handirifle, are you referring to the Winchester 94 Centennial 66 ? If so I like the design except for the gold plating, the action I think is no different to other post 65 Winchester 94s of that era, should be a good shooter after all it's a 30/30..

Buck has covered the "real 66" which unless a Uberti copy would cost an arm & a leg.

[Gobblerforge]

The 66 was supplanted in 1873 by a newer version of the same basic rifle, featuring a longer, stonger, iron receiver, and chambering the new, justly-famous .44 W.C.F. (.44-40) cartridge..
..

Buck. I found it interesting that, at first, the 1873 fired a cartridge called "Model of 1873". And it seams that it wasn't until after the 38WCF was already out, around 1880, that the Model of 1873 began to be called the 44WCF. I also seam to remember something of the year 1886 or so that the boxes were being marked 44WCF. I wish I could remember exactly where I read that. Not picking nits, just an interesting pit of history to ponder. It's because of this little tidbit that I have joked in the past about the 38WCF coming out before the 44WCF. That'll get an argument going.
Gobbler

[w30wcf]

Gobblerforge,
The 1880 WInchester catalog cartridge illustrations show the "38 WCF" and the "Model Winchester 1873" on the cartridge outlines. There is a reference to the "44 WCF" on the page illustating the 1873 Winchester rifle. The 1878 Winchester catalog also shows the same "44 WCF" on the page with the 1873 Rifles but the cartridge illustration shows the "Model 1873 Winchester".

After the 38 WCF was introduced, Winchester Cartridge boxes were identified as "38 Winchester" and "44 WInchester".

w30wcf

[handirifle]

Gamekeeper
Yes, this is the Winchester Centenial 66. I guess I wasn't aware that is was a 94 action. Will have to look closer. It was inherited, and it is a 30-30. I have kept it for years as a safe queen, but while in my dads keeping, it arrogantly got some rust under the plating, in little spots. Disappointing, but it is what it is. It also seems like they are worth about the same as a regular rifle of that caliber and age, unless you guys have heard anything different?

I am figuring if that is the case, I might as well make it at least a plinking/target (Like shooting clay birds from afar) gun and maybe even adding a long range peep sight. It has been fired, although not a lot.

I don't think I want to use it to hunt, with the super long barrel, and the wood finish is almost too pretty to get scratched up.

If the receiver is brass, that's a bummer, but if it's steel, I'd almost prefer to take the plating off and have a case hardened finish instead. What do you guys think? Is it still better off left as is? I still wonder about the slight damage it has under the finish.

[Griff]

The Winchester Centennial '66 was offered in only a "rifle" configuration, (no barrel bands and crescent buttplate), with octagon barrels of either 20" or 26". I know they were offered as sets and the 26" singly. I don't know if the 20" was offered by itself. With exception of the JW commemorative none of the others have done well in the collector dept.

But if other examples are anything to go from, they're very good shooters. It's actually brass plating. If the plating bonded to the metal it shouldn't rust under the plating. Are you sure it isn't just some discolorization of the plating?

Pictures...

[Gobblerforge]

Well there ya go. Thanks for making it a little clearer.
Gobbler

[gamekeeper]

Handirifle, the receiver is not brass but I believe it's the same metal as my Antique model made in 1966.

[Griff]

Handirifle, the receiver is not brass but I believe it's the same metal as my Antique model made in 1966.

GK, yes, the receiver is Winchester's scintered steel, but clad in brass plating. Same as some 94 commemoratives were both pewter and nickel plated.

[handirifle]

The Winchester Centennial '66 was offered in only a "rifle" configuration, (no barrel bands and crescent buttplate), with octagon barrels of either 20" or 26". I know they were offered as sets and the 26" singly. I don't know if the 20" was offered by itself. With exception of the JW commemorative none of the others have done well in the collector dept.

But if other examples are anything to go from, they're very good shooters. It's actually brass plating. If the plating bonded to the metal it shouldn't rust under the plating. Are you sure it isn't just some discolorization of the plating?

Pictures...

Griff
Thanks for the detailed info. It's not just discolored but it has little pimples on it. I looked at it again today, and most of it is on the tang area. Even with the brass/gold (is it gold or just brass?) plating, can that be easily and safely removed to do the case hardening?

Even if it cannot, this will become a long range fun gun.

[gamekeeper]

According to Chuck Hawks the receiver is 24 carat gold plated inside and out.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... HehTfBCACQ

[Griff]

Ok, I stand corrected.

1966 WINCHESTER ’66 CENTENNIAL 30-30 cal. 102666 mfg. (rifles & carbines)
Bright gold plated receiver & barrel bands, heavy octagon barrel
RIFLE - 26" barrel $545
CARBINE - 20" barrel $545
Consecutively Serial Numbered Matched Pair – Rifle & Carbine $1200 *

But... I'd lay long odds that it ain't any 24K. MAYBE 10K... but I ain't even sure about that. It feels more like brass in the hand. I wouldn't strip the plating and attempt to CCH. The dimensions would be off. I haven't played with any plated receivers (20cows beat me to the last one Numrich had; and I only have one plated commemorative in my safe).

If it's only the tang area, I would probably see about getting it repaired... at the minimum so it didn't deteriorate further. A spot fix would be harder to blend in, but that wouldn't mess with the dimensions of the internals for operating the gun.

* this is my 5th attempt to post this... my connection seems to be dropping out regular... love/hate these cellular thingies!!!!

[Malamute]

Griff
Thanks for the detailed info. It's not just discolored but it has little pimples on it. I looked at it again today, and most of it is on the tang area. Even with the brass/gold (is it gold or just brass?) plating, can that be easily and safely removed to do the case hardening?

Even if it cannot, this will become a long range fun gun.

A plating shop could "unplate" a part, but I would suspect there isnt really much finish under it. That era guns are not easy to get a good refinish on. If you had it stripped down to unplate it, you should send the reciever to someone that can blue or finish it nicely. Color case hardening is a possibilty, but as was mentioned, receivers can distort when case hardened, in which case, you'd be out of luck.

I've had several commemoratives, the value isn't real high, and they make nice shooters. They are about the only economical way to get a full rifle as a shooter or hunting gun. I've seen many still new in the box in the $500-$600 range. Once it's been fired, or has any finish blemishes, it pretty much makes it a shooter. I'd say enjoy it, refinish it if you'd like, and as you'd like, and have no regrets. If it's a family gun, the value is in having it, not that it has a particular market value. Tastefully refinished (or left as is) and used for shooting and hunting just adds to the family value in my opinion.

[Leverdude]

Gamekeeper
Yes, this is the Winchester Centenial 66. I guess I wasn't aware that is was a 94 action. Will have to look closer. It was inherited, and it is a 30-30. I have kept it for years as a safe queen, but while in my dads keeping, it arrogantly got some rust under the plating, in little spots. Disappointing, but it is what it is. It also seems like they are worth about the same as a regular rifle of that caliber and age, unless you guys have heard anything different?

I am figuring if that is the case, I might as well make it at least a plinking/target (Like shooting clay birds from afar) gun and maybe even adding a long range peep sight. It has been fired, although not a lot.

I don't think I want to use it to hunt, with the super long barrel, and the wood finish is almost too pretty to get scratched up.

If the receiver is brass, that's a bummer, but if it's steel, I'd almost prefer to take the plating off and have a case hardened finish instead. What do you guys think? Is it still better off left as is? I still wonder about the slight damage it has under the finish.

Reciever wont be brass. Winchester never made a brass 94 & the only gun they ever chambered 30/30 in was the 94 or the same action with another moniker. I'd probably just get it blued & use it but it can be cased without issue if somebody who knows what they are doing does it. Turnbull & many others do it all the time. Or leave it gold, I would IF it wasnt flawed, but its gaudy for my tastes anyway so if it needed fixing I'd fix it the way I wanted.

[pokey]

refinish if you want.

here is a pic of a oliver winchester comm. same gold bling,
all gone now.

sprecialollie3.JPG

no i did not do the work, bought it that way.

[handirifle]

OK, thanks for all the replies. Griff, I never thought of clearance issues, and it IS plated on the inside too. Since it had been fired when I got it, and I have fired a few from it too, plus it has the blemishes, it will be an as-is shooter. If the day and the need come, I will look for a good smith to strip and blue it, and maybe CCH, IF they can guarantee no ill effects. Seems I read of a chemical CCH process some time back.

Otherwise getting the parts blued nicely to match the barrel wouldn't be a bad thing either, and when I get to the bridge of refinishing, I'll see what a smith thinks of the clearance issue.

I agree on the gaudy part, never liked the gold look on any gun but here it is, nonetheless.

Is there any type of coating that I could cover it with to un-gaudy it?