1853 Enfield Rifled Musket

[RustyJr]

Was looking into possibly getting a Enfield rifled musket for playing with and possibly using during muzzleloading season but am unsure of what manufacturer to go with. Navy Arms carries one that is made by Parker Hale using the original design and measurements. However, they say they are out of stock. I'm afraid this might mean that they are no longer in production. Does anyone know if this is the case? Also, does anyone know which manufacturer would be the best to go with? Does one manufacturers firearms tend to be more accurate than the rest? Any information or experiance would be appreciatted.

Thanks,
RustyJr

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have the Enfield rifled musket and the Enfield Muskatoon. Also the Whitworh with the hex bore.
They all are marked Parker and Hale.
That said, the barrels were made by P&H and the rifles were assembled in Italy.
Some very fine quality in those rifles and they are quite accurate.
I wanted to use one of the .58`s for hunting until I sorted out the ballistics on them.
They are great for target shooting but the Muzzle energy they give is pretty poor.
Using a 600 gr. HB bullet and 65 gr. 2f you get about 8oo fps and hardly more energy than a .38 special. Probably why so many men were wounded in battle rather than being killed outright.
If I were going to hunt with mine I`d use round ball.
The lighter round ball gives more velocity and flatter trajectory out to 75 yards or so. Should be a better game killer.
The Whitworth is a different story. It`s .45 cal bullet gives lots of energy , almost the same as the .45-70.



Have fun!!

[RustyJr]

Well, in the event that the rifled musket isnt suitable for hunting, how would a .69 caliber 1816 Harpers Ferry conversion Musket do? Has anyone used a similar setup for deer or hogs? To me it seems like it would be essentially a trade gun but with a caplock instead of flint lock.



RustyJr

[Grizzly Adams]

I have a Parker Hale 1853 Enfield rifled musket. Mine is a pretty old example and was built in England, by Parker Hale, using the original patterns. As far as I know, the current production is made in Italy.

[765x53]

If you put a .58 mine into a deer or a hog at 100 yards or less, he will go down.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Ben_Rumson]

Same Same for me Ray...Years ago I was reading something and a ballistician was asked what gun had he tested that impressed him the most with its power... He said the one that had him cleaning gel off the ceiling for a few days afterward was a 600gr ball moving along at a stately 800fps fired from a 75 cal Brown Bess! ...I about busted a gut laughing when I read that....

[Nath]

I get a chuckle when I hear or read someone speak of foot pounds energy these days when comparing different cartridges' terminal ballistics. I was a ballistics nerd/geek when I was a kid and all I talked about was gun and ammunition. In those days f.p.e. was everything! I can remember when the first pocket calculators came out and going around calculating f.p.e. for folks who were too dense to do so for themselves. That was 35 years ago. Today no one gives a rip about f.p.e. except a few state's game regulating commissions. To compare a bullet that is 1 and one-quarter ounces of lead and is six-tenths of an inch across to one that is one-third of an ounce and just over a third of an inch across traveling the same speed is silly.

I was reading an old Sam Fadala article the other day. If you have read his writings much you know that he always quotes both f.p.s. and f.p.e. when discussing cartridges but in this particular article of which I speak, neither mattered. He was writing about testing terminal ballistics of various muzzleloading projectiles and shotgun slugs with a box of wet newsprint to compare the new sabot/pistol bullets v. the old stuff. He wrote that the new stuff was impressive but that the enfield minie at 800f.p.s. and the old RWS/Brenneke 12ga. at 1500f.p.s. both completely destroyed his box, requiring it to be repaired and/or rebuilt before resuming testing. I know deer are not built out of 3/4" pine and 1/2" plywood and wet paper but I think that Mister Fadala's experience might answer your question.

Ain't that the truth!

You can hunt with them but the sights will shoot high at normal hunting distance, I lowered my rear by replacing the Peabody parts with a solid steel sight.

Parker hale made some smoothbores, these are very versatile!









Nath.

[Nath]

I have the Enfield rifled musket and the Enfield Muskatoon. Also the Whitworh with the hex bore.
They all are marked Parker and Hale.
That said, the barrels were made by P&H and the rifles were assembled in Italy.
Some very fine quality in those rifles and they are quite accurate.
I wanted to use one of the .58`s for hunting until I sorted out the ballistics on them.
They are great for target shooting but the Muzzle energy they give is pretty poor.
Using a 600 gr. HB bullet and 65 gr. 2f you get about 8oo fps and hardly more energy than a .38 special. Probably why so many men were wounded in battle rather than being killed outright.
If I were going to hunt with mine I`d use round ball.
The lighter round ball gives more velocity and flatter trajectory out to 75 yards or so. Should be a better game killer.
The Whitworth is a different story. It`s .45 cal bullet gives lots of energy , almost the same as the .45-70.



Have fun!!

As far as I am aware the English made barrels don't have the drum screw!

N.

[Chuck 100 yd]

The barrel is marked Parker & Hale England.
A small Italy is stamped on the trigger guard tail.
Mine were purchased from Dixie Gun Works about 20+ years ago. I bought the three within a couple weeks of each other.
The price has gone up almost double since then.

Oh The Whitworth will hold 2 1/2" five shot groups at 100 yd from sand bags. the rifled muskets dont do as well but will keep the shots on a paper plate at the same distance.
I have known several people who hunted with the .58 for a
year or two . They all have gone back to their .50`s and .54`s.
I like the .54 round ball the best and have several rifles with that bore.


Have fun!!

Big bullets need velocity too. Otherwise it`s like being hit with a golf ball.

[Nath]

The barrel is marked Parker & Hale England.
A small Italy is stamped on the trigger guard tail.
Mine were purchased from Dixie Gun Works about 20+ years ago. I bought the three within a couple weeks of each other.
The price has gone up almost double since then.

Oh The Whitworth will hold 2 1/2" five shot groups at 100 yd from sand bags. the rifled muskets dont do as well but will keep the shots on a paper plate at the same distance.
I have known several people who hunted with the .58 for a
year or two . They all have gone back to their .50`s and .54`s.
I like the .54 round ball the best and have several rifles with that bore.


Have fun!!

Big bullets need velocity too. Otherwise it`s like being hit with a golf ball.

Thats why I use a ball and 90grn . Besides I don't see the golf ball thing you use! A 58slug from an Enfield would in my mind be nothing like being struck with a golf ball!

Maybe someone could enlighten me as to what point or speed does a slug stop doing terminal damage?

Nath.

[Nath]

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms ... /index.htm

N.

[creosote]

The .58 Minie Ball is "pre expanded"
That helps a lot.

Grinn

[Chuck 100 yd]

Nath , The Golf Ball thing is an exaggeration, (just like my comment about the .38 special was). It seems one has to state that to begin with or else a couple of internet experts will jump all over you.

Just because a bullet is big and looks impressive don`t mean you can hit an elephant in the ear and knock it flat.
(another exaggeration).

Still, I will keep my opinion of the .58 with its hollow base bullet as a very poor choice for big game.

In a properly made rifle, a round ball can be pushed to near
or just over 2,000 fps in any caliber.
A .54 or .58 cal. round ball going 2,000 fps will get the job done at any range that a reasonable hunter would shoot at.
I have shot .45 cal round balls through deer several times to find the ball under the skin on the other side. ..50`s and above have gone clear through almost every time.