Need 38 snub info please

86er · Post by **86er** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:58 am

I've searched around on my own but have not definitively made a conclusion without having each of these guns in my hand. What brand/model is the smallest OAL and/or thinnest width hammerless or bobbed hammer 38 snubnose revolver out there? Discontinued models can be included. Thanks!

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:44 am

I gave away a Colt Detective Special last weekend ... the early 90's issue. It had belonged to my father and I hadn't shot it in the last 12 years or so. This had the black pachmayr grips that filled my hand well and helped control the little fellow. Full house Golden Saber loads would make that little fellow jump pretty good even though it was only .38 Special and the gun didn't have any alloy parts.

Even though the Smith's and Taurus might be smaller, I don't think there's enough difference to fret over ... especially for 6 rounds in the cylinder. I know some of those small Smiths are 5 rounders. If it were for carry by someone with recoil sensitivities, I'd hang with the slightly heavier Colt.

InTheWoods · Post by **InTheWoods** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:10 pm

The Smiths have a slightly smaller diameter cylinder that the Colt. I believe all J-Frame Smiths (their smallest frame) are of the same diameter. The only other revolver that probably has a smaller diameter cylinder is a new .380 revolver (yep) being released by either Charter or Taurus, can't remember which. I believe the new Ruger compact revolver has a cylinder just very slightly larger in diameter.

The smallest overall package probably comes in the form or a SW 642 or 442 (stainless vs. blued). These are five shot and have a concealed hammer, 1 7/8 inch barrel, and alloy frame. They make super pocket guns. I have been very happy with mine.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:23 pm

Think it is the Ruger LCR
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_LCR_revolver.htm

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:42 pm

The Smith alloy 642 with the boot grip as supplied by MGE is the best I have seen, but remember the alloy is a bear to shoot with full loads..

InTheWoods · Post by **InTheWoods** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:35 pm

Actually I was wrong about the Ruger vs. 642 cylinder widths. The cylinder width of the Ruger is 1.283 and my 642 measures 1.305, pretty much the same but with a slight advantage to the Ruger. The 642 is a couple of tenths of an inch shorter, but 1.5 ounces heavier than the Ruger. If you went with the Smith 342 you get the weight down to 12 ounces and pay a much higher price. Of course, you also pay with more recoil.

Is this for pocket carry? If so, any of the above are perfect. If you want a small belt gun, I would quite honestly go with a 3 inch J-Frame.

JB · Post by JB » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:15 pm

I had a S&W 342, but really didn't notice a difference in pocket carry over the 642 and 442 aluminum frame guns. I have a couple of the Ruger LCR's I took as barter for some work but haven't actually carried one yet.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:17 pm

Ruger LCR, S&W 642, or 638 (my personal choice for a BUG, I found this to be smaller than the LCR, the grips on the LCR made is somewhat larger; tried the LCR for a year)...I have extensive experience with the pics I've shown...in the end it's the 638 (own two)... :)

86er · Post by **86er** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:09 pm

Thanks for the replies so far. This is for back-pocket carry, no holster.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Joe,
Back pocket carry? Like this? Ha! This 642 'Smith has been riding in my back pocket for the last 14 years. Maybe longer--it was one of the first ones out. I've had most of them out (except foreign junk) and this one fits my lifestyle the best--no hammer, slim profile. But......the factory grips that come with it are no good as they will snag. I replaced mine with an aftermarket laminated pair that are real smooth.

From time to time, when I'm somewhere I can pull the trigger, I'll practice by whipping it out real quick and release a double tap. Has not failed me yet. Its logged 1200+ and is still tight

As penetration is everything, I stoke it with 158 LSW's, cast medium with a dose of Unique.---------Sixgun

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:27 pm

Sixgun, I can see your revolver - it's butt is sticking out.

Seriously, I have the blued version of the bodyguard - very ergonomic little critter, lightweight and came with boot grips on it. The stainless version as shown above would be less maintenance...

Might check the Ruger out though - sounds good - I haven't had my hands on one of those yet.

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:40 pm

Do you, or do you not, need a 'concealed carry permit' to carry a snubnose 38 in your rear levi's pocket the way it is pictured above? With the butt sticking out, is that enough to keep the policeman from hauling you in if you don't have a CC permit?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:46 pm

southfork wrote:Do you, or do you not, need a 'concealed carry permit' to carry a snubnose 38 in your rear levi's pocket the way it is pictured above? With the butt sticking out, is that enough to keep the policeman from hauling you in if you don't have a CC permit?

Depends first on what state you live in. As to the question "is it concealed or not?" I'm not sure myself. I know that if it were in a belt holster in an open carry state, it's good of course but a mostly concealed but not quite... ??? Seems to me that that revolver is "open carry" because its quite obvious as to what it is... but that's just me.

I've had a carry permit for a long time and have always carried concealed - in a IWB holser with a shirt worn out.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:46 pm

southfork wrote:Do you, or do you not, need a 'concealed carry permit' to carry a snubnose 38 in your rear levi's pocket the way it is pictured above? With the butt sticking out, is that enough to keep the policeman from hauling you in if you don't have a CC permit?

Even more, is it concealed enough to stop him if you do... ?

2571 · Post by **2571** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:49 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote: The stainless version as shown above would be less maintenance...

Had a S&W 942 for 15 years. Stainless too heavy for backpocket carry. Accept the fact that periodic maintenace is a fact of life.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Perhaps he wears a duster over that... or a long-tailed shirt? I know PA is a CCW state, not sure about open carry - I don't remember it being so.

ETA - 2571 - I really prefer to just let em clog up with lint and let the bore rust from persperation - makes me look meaner

What I should have said/meant is the silver alloy frame with stainless barrel/cyliner version. I believe they are the same weight at the blued version... and yes, you have to clean your gun from time to time for sure!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:30 pm

Joe,
Don't know if they offer one w bobbed hammer but this is kinda different?
Imagine with the .357 can just shoot .38's
But, after that earlier post I posted(why not make it .357)

http://chiappafirearms.com/product/725

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:38 pm

the LEO's that I hang with would consider that "back pocket" concealed, but a judge might over-rule that...maybe... :)

Also I would be hard-pressed to use reloads for defensive purposes---I always use what my local PD or SO uses (in my case I use what my Agency uses--Speer Gold Dots). Too many predatory lawyers and DA's out there just waiting to label you as a stone-cold killer if you ever have to defend yourself.

Why? Because you took the time to research your ammo of choice on the Internet, bought and read gun magazines, relaoding books, you discussed bullet weight, brass, primer, and powder options on a forum--in the end you developed and re-loaded your own SD ammo--therefore you showed intent, premeditation .

But if you use the same duty ammo that the local PD, SO, or State uses, you can discredit any attempt to classify your choice of defense ammo as evil or inhumane--just my cranky un-solicited back-east opinion, nothing more, nothing less--stay safe...code-4... :)

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:12 pm

Here is my Ruger LCR with the boot strap grip and XS sight.
The pocket holster keeps the revolver upright and hides the imprint.
With some practice you can reload quickly with the strip.
The LCR shoots nice and absorbs recoil well. I've more than 550rds threw it since March and its shows little wear despite being carried almost daily.
I also carry it in my Maxexpedition jumbo pack several times a week on my hikes.
I found a box of +P+ discontinued Black Hills ammo, which are almost gone and I will be buying the Buffalo Bore Heavy 38 +P ammo soon.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:00 pm

The Charter Arms Undercover is pretty small and light. But, not as light as some of the Smiths using Scadium and such.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:19 pm

I have a Rossi model 68 2 inch 38 special that I bought 11 years ago and it carries and shoots as good as I could want.My carry load is the Federal Nyclad, I still have 1 1/2 boxes left. It shoots 158 grain hard cast swc and Unique good too, like sixgun said, a good load. It has a very smooth action.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:29 pm

S&W 340PD

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:36 pm

There isn't much difference between the j frame smiths other than airweight vs steel. The Ruger LCRs seem ok but don't have real snappy trigger return. I am not sure how comfortable sitting on a small revolver in your back pocket all day would be. Most jeans front pocket will hold a little gun, but it is hard to get it out quickly. The Smith 642 is a good choice. They have come down in price lately. I carry a Smith 640 in my front pants pocket everyday at work but I wear Docker type pants. I keep it in a pocket holster to keep it right side up and to keep it from wearing a hole in my pocket. It is the older, smaller 38 special 640. It is all steel. A lot of people want airweights now but the all steel shoot better.

Whatever gun you get you need slim, slick grips like Hideout grips or boot grips. A little gun like that is not a bad snake gun with rat shot and a fine back up gun. But if you sho' nuff need a gun they seem even smaller than they really are.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:00 pm

southfork wrote:Do you, or do you not, need a 'concealed carry permit' to carry a snubnose 38 in your rear levi's pocket the way it is pictured above? With the butt sticking out, is that enough to keep the policeman from hauling you in if you don't have a CC permit?

I never did worry about small discrepancies in the law. I can't remember the times I have walked in front of cops (had 'em in line behind me at stores) and I know they have seen the gun and no one has ever said anything. This is Pennsylvania, a state I am rarely out of, and a very gun friendly state to boot. Pay your $30 and your good to carry-----anywhere but Federal buildings or courthouses. Plus, I'm no 22 y.o. kid.---------------------------Sixgun

GoatGuy · Post by **GoatGuy** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:11 pm

86er - For pocket carry my vote goes to (pre whatever dash) Smith model 38, 49, or 649 38 S&W Specials if you prefer stainless. Dandy piece with somewhat '50 styling, but hands down the best of the breed. Noted today several NIB or ANIB available on gunbroker.com. Buenas suerte on your quest.

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:53 pm

I carried an old M38 airweight for years in my coat pocket in the winter time and now mostly I carry a 642 as a spare in my front pants pocket. I tried and liked shooting a Taurus 651 CIA but it was too heavy for a second or third gun.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:17 pm

The little light framed guns might be nice to carry but what about when you have to pull and empty as fast as you can pull the trigger.Can they be held on target under that much recoil? I think my Rossi steel gun does not weigh enuff to make me weary from carrying it, I like the control under rapid fire it has.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:40 am

InTheWoods wrote:... a new .380 revolver (yep) being released by either Charter or Taurus...

Ooo, that's intriguing! Every once in a while I'll send an e-mail to NAA suggesting they scale up their Mini's to .32 ACP or even .380 ACP.

As for the question originally posted, the S&W 337 is likely the lightest .38 ever made. The smallest is probably the old I frames in .38 S&W, but they aren't much smaller than a J. Colt had some very small .38's in the late 1800's; the NAA Mini's are sort of a scaled down version; they are collector pieces today, though. The Colt Police Positives are spiffy, too, but not usually a pocket gun.

I owned a 442 once. I hated the trigger on the thing. My hands are too big for a J.

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:40 am

North American Arms already makes a .32 break top but they are EXPENSIVE.

Stan in SC

kevin in nh · Post by **kevin in nh** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:17 am

Two Smiths....Model 38 Body Guard, and a Model 40 both very light weight and easy front pocket carry....no ankle or waist band for either of these.......kevin

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:16 am

O.S.O.K. wrote:
southfork wrote:Do you, or do you not, need a 'concealed carry permit' to carry a snubnose 38 in your rear levi's pocket the way it is pictured above? With the butt sticking out, is that enough to keep the policeman from hauling you in if you don't have a CC permit?

In Indiana, if you carry like that WITH a permit, you'll likely get reprimanded and told the permit is for CONCEALED carry, and that means you must CONCEAL the gun. The idea is it is less likely to create a 'public disturbance', I guess; it works for me, because I'd also prefer not to lose the element of surprise. Now, living in a rural area, I don't think such carry is an 'issue', and do so on occasion, but I wouldn't do it in Indianapolis.

I think WITHOUT a permit, at least around here, you'd be asking for trouble, but there seems to be an ongoing dispute about whether 'open carry' is legal or not in Indiana.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:21 pm

Sixgun wrote:
southfork wrote:Do you, or do you not, need a 'concealed carry permit' to carry a snubnose 38 in your rear levi's pocket the way it is pictured above? With the butt sticking out, is that enough to keep the policeman from hauling you in if you don't have a CC permit?

I never did worry about small discrepancies in the law. I can't remember the times I have walked in front of cops (had 'em in line behind me at stores) and I know they have seen the gun and no one has ever said anything. This is Pennsylvania, a state I am rarely out of, and a very gun friendly state to boot. Pay your $30 and your good to carry-----anywhere but Federal buildings or courthouses. Plus, I'm no 22 y.o. kid.---------------------------Sixgun

I find that a little surprising. I have the permit and had one in PA back when I lived there (though that was on the NJ side...) and never would have dreamed of carrying in my back pocket like that where a cop (other than the ones that were members of my gun club) could see it. Or anybody else for that matter as somebody would certainly decide to call the cops on me. That's open carry IMHO.

I carry strongside IWB with a shirt over it - yes, you can detect "something" under the shirt but not exactly what = that's concealed IMHO. I figure if a cop has to ask "if" I've got a gun, then it's concealed. And would politely point that out if asked...

But if it works for you, then go for it!

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:53 pm

Some comments on pocket carry. These are compiled from what professional instructors and cohorts have told me as well as personal experience:

If you go without a pocket carry "wallet" holster you increase the likelihood accidental discharge. It also wears out your pocket more quickly, which can be an annoyance.

A good pocket carry wallet will not slow down your draw, and may actually improve the speed and reliability of your draw.

Regarding back pocket carry:

Professionals in the personal and public defense fields have told me that back pocket carry is a good way to be the guy who gets shot with his own gun. I find the logic on this persuasive and I've seen "back pocket take away" demonstrated. It was easy for the assailant and it seemed to universally go poorly for the LEOs engaged in the weapon retention drills.

Regarding guns:

You cannot go wrong with the Ruger and it draws smoothly. I prefer .380 autos (LCP) because they are thinner, print a bit less, and often offer higher capacity, but you did not ask about that so please forgive the side bar.

Regarding ammo:

Penetration is NOT everything in my view, and as a very skilled hunter I'm certain you know what I mean. If you are thinking personal defense from persons, do not use reloads for the reasons stated above.

Just my 2¢ worth and you paid even less than that so you know the value.

Best,
Oly

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:33 pm

Where I live,an officer friend of mine said,if any part of it is visible,it's open carry,and not legal here,unless you're hunting.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:47 pm

I really think that many here (nothin' personal

) overanalyze tidbits in the law and what others say.

According to Jim Wilson, there is not one documented case where a good guy was taken to court for using handloads in his defensive weapon after he used it for self defense. The big issue is "where you in fear of your life when you shot the dopebag?" Many of these fears were perpetrated by the ammo manufacturers so they could sell millions of dollars of "self defense ammo".

As for carrying in your backpocket, it can be a stupid thing "if" the perp gets the drop on you. I am always aware of my surroundings and never let anyone near me that looks suspicious or if he/they are walking a bee line to me. When I see that--and I have--I'll make a direct 90 degree and if they move, I grab for the butt.

As for a 38 Spl-- in a snubby, 380 auto, or the various 32's, 25's and .22's, penetration IS everything because thats about all they got going for them. Any HP in a light/small/weak round will be like a bad bee sting. I choose a lswc with a flat nose because they work.

As Massad Ayoob says, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". Thats what lawyers are for. At least I'll be breathing while they are pushin' up the daisies. I win--they lose.

-----------Sixgun

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:53 pm

IMHO, the 38 Special is a lot more cartridge than the .380. One shoots a 90 grain bullet at the same speed as the other's 158 grain bullet...

And I have to agree with the lscw. Just place your shots well and it will punch a hole through.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:43 pm

Stan in SC wrote:North American Arms already makes a .32 break top but they are EXPENSIVE.

I knew of the top break .22; it's now listed in their discontinued models. The .32 must have been phased out a while back, then.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:51 pm

pa is open carry (except in Philly) and ccw. The lightweight smith is awesome. I have one with a laser grip Love it

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:44 am

I like the S&W J frame airweights for that sort of thing. Yes, steel is heavier and attenuates the recoil, but the lighter weight of whatever alloy they use makes daily carry much less intrusive on normal activities. In any case, .38SP. recoil is not a big deal even with the Airweights. IMHO, should the need to use it arise, recoil will be of little importance. Thank God I've never been in that situation and hope I never will, but that's how it seems to me.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:26 am

I've now got a 638 Airweight on loan for a couple months. I will shoot it and carry it to see how we get along - particularly now that the "jacket" season is still here. Once I get familiar and make a definite decision I may get one of these or go to a 642 or something like that. Thanks for the info everyone!

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:55 am

I have been looking for similar. Please report back after you have your "trial" period.
My hangup on the S&W's especially newer ones, is the trigger pull is horrific. I have tried ONE Ruger LCR and found it a bit lighter in pull. Have not had op for any of the Charter arms undercover models.

Really been looking for a Colt 32, Pocket Positive in short barrel and good condition.
The detective special in same caliber starts getting heavier.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:57 am

Marlin32 wrote:Really been looking for a Colt 32, Pocket Positive in short barrel and good condition.

I was completely unaware of this model until you mentioned it. There's a decent one with the short barrel up on GB for $250 at the moment. It says ".32 Police Ctg." and I'm not sure what that is? Perhaps a .32 Long Colt?

Kind of a nice looking gun. Thanks for mentioning it.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:27 pm

The Pocket Positive is the Police Positive with a shorter grip frame, to make it easier to conceal. The .32 Police could be the .32 S&W Long, but I'm not sure. Colt called the .32 S&W Long the ".32 New Police" so not to give S&W any free advertising, but the ".32 Police" might, as you say, be one the older .32 Colt rounds. Hopefully a Colt guy will chime in.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:50 pm

I had a hammer JFrame end up being cocked when I pulled it out of my jacket pocket to show a buddy. No more ANYTHING in my pockets without a sleeve-type cover on them. I could have killed myself or my buddy

What a DumAzz I was

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:53 pm

32NP and S&W same thing. Gunbroker usually has a few, but seems like always on opposite poles, either $1000 or junk for little money. I have let a couple slip by.

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:54 pm

I carry a 638 in a pocket holster every day.Love the ability to shoot it single action if desired.
This the best personal carry I have found for my tastes.My first load up is a shot shell.

Stan in SC

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:27 am

I also wanted to keep the single-action option and I didn't want anything with a lock.I stumbled onto an old 70's Charter Undercover last year and the price was too good to pass. It had a few quirks related to age and the era of production, but Charter was generous with parts and I was able to get it ship-shape PDQ.

Finally got the sights filed to zero and found a plinking load it likes.

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2011 ... -none.html

PackinPreacher · Post by **PackinPreacher** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:20 pm

1894c wrote: the LEO's that I hang with would consider that "back pocket" concealed, but a judge might over-rule that...maybe...

Also I would be hard-pressed to use reloads for defensive purposes---I always use what my local PD or SO uses (in my case I use what my Agency uses--Speer Gold Dots). Too many predatory lawyers and DA's out there just waiting to label you as a stone-cold killer if you ever have to defend yourself.

Why? Because you took the time to research your ammo of choice on the Internet, bought and read gun magazines, relaoding books, you discussed bullet weight, brass, primer, and powder options on a forum--in the end you developed and re-loaded your own SD ammo--therefore you showed intent, premeditation .

But if you use the same duty ammo that the local PD, SO, or State uses, you can discredit any attempt to classify your choice of defense ammo as evil or inhumane--just my cranky un-solicited back-east opinion, nothing more, nothing less--stay safe...code-4...

I have seen this line of thought and find it highly questionable. A self defense weapon is meant to stop a bad guy and whether you do it with your own loads or factory self-defense loads the intent is the same: to kill/stop the perp before you are killed. I'll leave it, as they say, to a jury of my peers...