Watching Doomsday Preppers

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:09 pm

I have always thought it is a good idea to be prepared for a disaster, whether natural or man made, but watching this show has given me pause about how prepared I actually am. When people come to our house and see our pantry they almost always say something along the lines of, "We know where we're coming if the end of the world comes". I maybe, and that's a big maybe, have enough food to last us a week, possibly two depending on how much we conserve. We have a couple hundred pounds of meat in the freezer, but that wouldn't last long if the power went out, especially in the summer. I have no water stored. I have guns and ammo, but probably not enough kept on hand all the time.

While watching the show, my wife turned to me and said, "These people are weird, don't you think"? I said, "No, I think they're pretty smart." The probability of something happening soon seems more and more possible to me with every passing year/election cycle. I think I'm going to revisit my preparedness level and work to make it a little more organized. I don't have the means to store years worth of food and water like some of the people on the show, but I can do better than what I'm doing.

What's y'alls' take on the subject?

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:25 am

I believe one should be prepared.

jager3 · Post by **jager3** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:01 am

In the area I live, the possibility of a "freak" ice storm or tornado that went "too far east" has left us without power for up to a week or more in our rural areas. We keep our "necessities" at the appropriate levels to survive the longest length of time we think is necessary. (That time period does seem to appear having the possibility of becoming a long term disaster in the near future!) I'm certain that other areas where hurricanes and blizzards are prevalent people routinely store food, keep a generator handy, and store extra water in excess of what they normally need. Being prepared for a disaster is never a bad strategy in my opinion. Check your local food store next time the power goes out and determine if you want to compete with people who go there totally unprepared! These "panic buyers" always buy more than they can possible use and is a reaction to not having planned at all. See how civil "sane" people can be over the last carton of milk!

How much you store or for what contingency is your business, it does not pay to advertise in any case unless you do not value security or your well being. Where do you think those panic buyers are going to go after a week if they know you have lights, heat, water, and food. (You might even get that surprise visit from you favorite relative that made fun of your "doomsday prepping"

.) When you find you have enough water, food, fuel for heat and cooking; fuel for your vehicle any given emergency run, and a way to protect yourself and your family you are headed in the right direction of not being a "victim" of most disasters. You should be able to cover a week or so of total power outage (water, electricity, fuel) with little effort and without much fan fare. However, if you feel the length of the disaster may last months, or possible a year or two, you won't make it that long without some serious planning and "prepping", which will include some major storage accommodations. Because of the magnitude and effort of being prepared for the long term, prepping has become a life style for many who are determined they and their families are going to survive in most situations. Knowing what caused the disaster will be less important than being prepared to survive in spite of it!

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:30 am

Easiest way to keep meat is "on the hoof", rabbits, pigeons, ducks, fish, etc.
For water storage I'd go with an underground rainwater tank that self flushes with runoff from the house roof. I actually have a 12000 gallon pond full of freshwater fish and crustaceans (i think you guys call em crawdads), all I need to do is filter and boil the water.
I home brew beer and usually have about 25 gallons in stock. It isn't perfect nourishment but it will guarantee that I wont starve for a few weeks after the real food runs out.
Add to that a couple 10 pound sacks of rice, 5 gallons of UHT milk in 1/4 ctns and a modest pantry. I keep a few torches, a gas lamp, a wind up torch and a couple solar lights and enough guns and ammo to protect it all.
I think I'm good to go.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:53 am

I like the idea of 25 gallons of beer...

My bug out bag is always ready to go, over here you can be evacuated by the police for anything from an unexploded WW2 bomb to a gas leak, so spending a couple of nights in a Church Hall is more likely than surviving a Tornado or Zombie attack but it's nice to know whatever happens you're one step ahead.
One thing I have in the bug out bag is trade goods for folks I may meet who are unprepared, money will be of little use in a complete society shut down.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:55 am

We got a cheap lesson in the need for preparedness last October. A freak snowstorm dropped a foot of wet snow in a few hours. The leaves were still on the trees and many branches and whole trees were felled, resulting in widespread power outages and impassable roads.
My power was out for seven days. Some nearby areas were without power for nearly two weeks. Many roads were closed for a couple of days.

My home relies on electricity for both heat and water. We got lucky that the temperatures were well above freezing during the day. The temperature indoors went down to the high 40 degrees over night. Normal winter temperatures would have frozen our pipes in a day.

Weather related disasters are uncomfortably common in New England. In the thirty five years that I have lived here, we've had a hurricane, tornado, ice storm, or severe blizzard about every three years on average. The power was never out for more than 12 hours before last October and we always survived with only minor inconvenience.

I learned a few valuable lessons from the recent event.

The power grid is becoming less reliable and this is not going to get better anytime soon. As the power companies defer maintenance and reduce staff, recovery times will certainly continue to increase. I got this info unofficially but directly from power company managers.

Cash is king. Credit and ATM cards are worthless in a power outage. I've started putting some of our usual weekly savings account deposit into a hidden stash.

Gasoline to power a generator or travel out of the area by automobile requires electricity at the gas station. Since I work a couple miles from home, I used to let the cars get down to nearly empty before refueling. Now I keep a minimum of one half tank of fuel in them.

The big box stores will close at the first sign of trouble. The local businesses will remain open to serve the community for as long as possible.

I bought a generator and have enough fuel on hand for a day of continuous power or a couple of days of intermittent power, under the worst conditions. I could probably stretch it out to a week in warm weather. I intend to double the fuel supply in the next year. The fuel needs to be replaced regularly even when stabilized, so it will be rotated through the cars every six months.

We usually have a week's supply of nonperishable food on hand but I intend to ensure that it is more varied than just canned veggies and pasta.

Jack

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:41 am

Always good to have extra supplies on hand. An alternative heat source non dependant on electricity keeps you from freezing and the pipes cracking. Anything lasting longer than two weeks, I serious doubt that many would survive. Well organized gangs would come and take what u got. You would have to raise an Army to stay alive

foxtrapper · Post by **foxtrapper** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:51 am

Having a generator or fresh batteries for lights good idea. These folks are nutz. Why are they so frightened? It is not being prepared. These folks are scared of something! I gotta ask. Is it religious or race wars or....... zombies.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:11 am

I'm a little confused... Is there a TV show out there now that makes this the main topic.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:40 am

I did not see this particular show, however most special reports or newscasts that I have seen which focus on "preppers", "survivalists" or "doomsdayers" end up projecting that these folks are nuts or a bit too "extreme" (word recognition hint: "extreme" as being an "extremist"; aka, accoording to DHS = a "potential terrorist").

And Guess What?

Doomsday Prepper Declared Mental Defective…. Government confiscates his Guns

http://offgridsurvival.com/doomsdayprep ... defective/

This kind of stuff (like the "dad with a .45 teaches his brat a lesson" video) only adds fuel to the anti-gun fire.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:42 am

Want to prepare, flip the main breaker and you`ll find out in a hurry what you`ll be needing.
Try and prepare as if there is no power as far as heat, water, light and a out house is good if possible.

Moondawg · Post by **Moondawg** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:32 am

you always have to take into consideration, that after disaster strikes, local government, or what passes for local government, will appropriate your saved up goodies, They will do so under guise of a anti-hoarding law/regulation, and for redistribution for the good off all. Thats just the way our society thinks nowadays. Government at all levels is becoming more and more Marxist.

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:55 am

In answer to a question by "Rusty" in Florida, yes it is a series of sort starts around 9PM EST on the National Geographic channel. Watched it for the first time last night, they are doing repeats of it as well. I think it will be available on DVD from National Geographic. Interesting show, doesn't try to make the people look like kooks or extremeist, and does show some of their thoughts on what may happen. Back in the 1970's Mel Tappan did a lot of writing along this line. He offered good advice, unfortunately he has passed away. It was called the survivalist movement back then and was very active, while Jimmy Carter was president. It fell out of favor when he was replaced by a president which restored a lot of confidence in preceptions people had. The main thing Mel Tappan preached was try to be able to go for a year or better two without relying on what is normal stores and transportation. The best thing was being able to stay in place and be self sufficent in food, water, medical and other things. A number of survival magazines were also published with good articles on how to get by and how to prepare and store, even for apartment dwellers. Hope this helps. Have a good week. ATB

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:07 am

Back when the great fear was WW III, I had a neighbor that was "prepared". I ask him one day Why?. You see, we live near the largest harbor on the west coast. It had at the time a huge naval base. And, the USAF has numerous installations scattered about. Add to that the amount of aerospace facilities, and if war came we'd be turned to vapor in a couple of seconds.

As far as natural disasters, wild fire, earthquake, and localized flooding are the only worries, and in that order. If you survive the initial event, you can pretty much drive a fairly short distance and be out of the effected area.

Other man made problems such as riots have occured several times in my life in the Los Angels metropolitan area. But those too are localized. Stay away from the areas where the rioting is taking place, and other than some idiot in local government declaring and emergency you aren't bothered by them. And the the stupid things about the "emergency declaration" is that they put a curfew on vast areas not effected by the rioting, and restrict gun and ammo sales. Like rioters are going to buy guns and fill out the paperwork.

Now with all this said, you might be thinking ole Jeepnik likely has nothing set aside. Wrong! I have two plans, one to stay put, and one to leave. Leaving simply requires tossing a few bags, important papers and some supplies in my jeep and driving away. I aways keep a fair amount of cash on hand, and once out of the effected area, credit/debit cards work just fine.

To stay in place, which means the house didn't fall down, I, and most likely many folks have more food on hand than they realize. It's just that few folks in my economic situation ever really run out of food, they just run out of things they want to eat at the time. So if "forced" to eat everything in the house, they'd have more than they realized. And, there's always the food that would go if we were in the "leave" scenario.

Folks say "what if the water is shut off". Well, I have a very large, but somewhat saline, water tank a very short distance away. And, I think you all know I'm a water guru by trade. Of course, there is the sanitation angle to consider but even if the sewer system (intermediate pumping stations and treatment facilities) failed, I could still use my toilets and such. I live on top of a hill, and stuff will flow down hill. In my case it will like just overflow into the above mentioned harbor. Environmentally, not so good, but at that point a little more spilled sewage would be way down at the bottom on anyones list of concerns.

Now someone mentioned keeping meat on the hoof so to speak. Every urban area has quite a bit. But, the vast majority of people don't see it as food. Better for those of us that do. No, I'm not talking about eating my neighbors, sorry to disappoint.

There is a photo of NO after Katrina hit. Folks are standing in water up to their knees, and saying they are thirsty. Kinda a silly since man has been purifying water for thousands of years without all the fancy stuff we have today. It's just that the know how is lost to most. And in the background are several dogs. You only really need three things to survive, food, water and shelter. Two of them right there in that photo, and I'm pretty sure you could find a multi story building to stay in for a short time if you had to.

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:11 am

How to learn to prepare, "Pitchy" is right on onthe subject of pulling the main breaker on your breaker box. One thing was mentioned back then was do a weekend "TEST". Just off all electrical power on Friday night, don't leave home and see how well you can get by with what you have inside the house. No phones, no running water, no refridgeration, and all the other things people take for granted. A good exercise to do sometime. Thanks Pitchy I had forgotten this idea.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:25 am

Being "prepared" is something only a terrorist would do; besides - it's not fair if you have planned and sacrificed and are well-suited to endure a power outage or other crisis, and your poor neighbor who spent all their money on dope, booze, and a big-screen for their cable television, is left without comforts. Thank goodness our 'leaders' know what's best:

Moondawg wrote:you always have to take into consideration, that after disaster strikes, local government, or what passes for local government, will appropriate your saved up goodies, They will do so under guise of a anti-hoarding law/regulation, and for redistribution for the good off all. Thats just the way our society thinks nowadays. Government at all levels is becoming more and more Marxist.

shooter wrote:When people come to our house and see our pantry they almost always say something along the lines of, "We know where we're coming if the end of the world comes".

Now whenever I hear that it really irritates me - it is usually said with a nudge, smile, and wink, but it is basically a way of saying "We are going to keep spending our money on frivolous stuff, but will assume you will let us mooch off of you when something bad happens". Do they think it's funny to put the 'prepper' in a position where he or she must choose between the safety and security of his or her own family, and having to defend them by force against former friends...?

Unfortunately, besides the above two concerns, anyone living within 50-100 miles of a large city would be overrun with mobs of looting city-dwellers - having 'enough ammo' makes no difference unless you have some kind of situation where you could truly have 24-hour patrols around your property, and even then, defending against hundreds of looters never seems to go well. Unless you're incredibly wealthy, or already live on a family 'compound' where there are like-minded and trusted allies, I think the best bet if 'doomsday' really happens would be going mobile, much as I'd hate the thought of leaving the homestead and livestock behind. It would be nice if we had a government more tuned in to preventing such chaotic events, vs. the bread-and-circus mindset of our current one.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:39 am

Cliff wrote:How to learn to prepare, "Pitchy" is right on onthe subject of pulling the main breaker on your breaker box. One thing was mentioned back then was do a weekend "TEST". Just off all electrical power on Friday night, don't leave home and see how well you can get by with what you have inside the house. No phones, no running water, no refridgeration, and all the other things people take for granted. A good exercise to do sometime. Thanks Pitchy I had forgotten this idea.

I`ll just wear that outfit i have on in that other thread and everyone will leave us alone.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:28 pm

One of the things that concerns me is the same concern that the CDC and National Defense worry about and that's a pox or something similar. There are many ways something of the viral type may sweep the globe and most of them will burn out in three months or so. We are also prone to occasional big snow storms that knock out power for long periods of time. It's amazing how easy it is to go from three weeks prep to three months. Don't forget to keep extras for your neighbors and family.

Couple of books: Preparedness Principles by Barbara Salisbury and When All Hell Breaks Loose by Cody Lundin. The first one is in building a pantry of food you'll eat without getting overwhelmed by the process and the latter is a guide to everything from setting up a latrine where grandma can poop to handling the dead in a Katrina level event.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:57 pm

Moondawg wrote:you always have to take into consideration, that after disaster strikes, local government, or what passes for local government, will appropriate your saved up goodies, They will do so under guise of a anti-hoarding law/regulation, and for redistribution for the good off all. Thats just the way our society thinks nowadays.

This is where being an active, useful part of your community comes in. Giving your time and knowledge to your neighbors in advance of an event is key. Helping your community prepare in advance and having extras for them protects your investment to some extent. There's an awful lot of Mormons that'll be visited before you will if you keep a lid on the extent of your preps. Stealth is safety if you are worried about someone stealing your preps. A friend of mine has three safes: a small sheet metal one with some silver coins and cash and jewelry in it, a sheet metal gun safe with a couple of low value shooters in it (both of those are pretty easy to find) and a decent sized Liberty cased in a concrete box with a deadbolted steel exterior door behind some rolling shelves that have a hidden latching system. I've thought that a whole hidden room would be kinda cool. Growing food that don't look like food is another form of stealth from marauders WROL.

Personally though, I think the decline will be managed well enough that we won't have to live Without Rule Of Law. There's plenty of variables to prove that wrong, but the powers-that-be have a pretty good lock on the control thing and those of us who can be like a well rooted tree in the wind and keep our heads cool and our mouths shut can ride it long enough to be around when we're truly needed.

Plan for contingencies and know that plans are useless if not immediately flexible. Don't keep your eggs in one basket and be ready to roll elsewhere to another carton of eggs if that's the way things roll.

I love my house and my yard and my stuff, but when I listed the things I really need, starting with water and including my bible, they are pretty far down the list of the things I truly need.

Rambling.....sorry

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:14 pm

everything you consume, EVERYTHING, arrives locally by truck. Those trucks need to get to you locale about every three (3) days to provide resupply. That ain't gonna happen in a bad times scenario!!! There's only so many dogs and cats and birds and (god forbid) humans you can harvest as the stores run out out of food, so you move to rural. There's only so many edible animals in a given area. So, are you really prepared for the long haul?? If Obama is reelected, I feel sure handguns will be banned before the end of his 2nd term. Plan ahead if you believe that. Water is more important than food. What have you planned about water? Plans fail, but at least they give you a starting place.

rimrock

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:15 pm

I think the decline will be managed well enough that we won't have to live Without Rule Of Law

I can understand your thinking but can't entirely agree. To steal a quote, "complex systems do not fail in a linear fashion." Read a little on chaos theory (yes,that's really a study!) and you'll see what I mean.

For the folks that have told me they'll be coming over to my place when TSHTF, I always ask them if they really think I'll be here for them. I remind them that if they've fought their way through miles of mutant zombie mohawked bikers in shoulder pads and find my house empty, they're now even worse off.

NatGeo is obviously doing an entertainment show featuring 'prepper' folks at the far end of the bell curve (and who have never heard the work OPSEC!) but parts of the segments I've seen show they're being reasonably fair in how they're portraying them.

I think the series will start some good conversations. Including this one.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:26 pm

I live on the Texas Gulf Coast and have been through a number of hurricanes, so I believe in being prepared and having enough stuff on hand to last until things get back up and running. Things are dicey down here on the Border and I keep a decent supply of guns and ammo on hand just in case.

I AM NOT one of these doomsday lunatics. Many people think folks with guns are all nuts and this show confirms their feelings. These are loonies on TV stockpiling guns and ammo. These are people whose lives are based on fear and distrust of others. No way to live IMHO.

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:59 pm

I believe in preperations and skill training. I grew up for awhile on a homestead in the north. They didn't get electricity until 1953, the year of my birth. But preparing for a world of cannabalism and utter ruin is fruitless.

I'm a bit tired of a lifetime of apocalyptic claims. Nuclear winter, numerous Second Comings, AIDS, Y2K, H1N1, Mayan castasrophies, Nostradomus melt downs, crashing Meteors, terrorism, Communism (now our trading partners!), Banking collapses, Global Warming and such. How did we ever survive long enough to get in this mess!

Fear is the weapon destroying democracy and freedom and attacking human nature. It allows governments to convince us to accept things or turn a blind eye to things we would not have considered 25 years ago. Bailing out bankers with trillions while our neighbors get thrown into the street by those same incompetent bankers. Closing all our factories so Corporations can profit from cheap labor and then wondering why there are so few good blue collar jobs and our kids turn to crime and drugs.

If the power fails I'll join with my neighbors to solve things in a new way. Human survival is the goal not my survival. We really are a better race of creatures than some Hollywood visions would suggest. We don't have a history of roasting our young! Of all the prophets in history I'll stick with the one who chose sacrifice over armed insurrection. A very tough example to follow.

I do not wish to offend or challenge those with different views. Only to suggest there is more than one way to prepare for social collapse and that many scenarios are so unlikely as to be meaningless. Social collapse in history has been a slow and creeping thing over generations. The old gaurd of the west has already lost to the new gaurd in the east and we do nothing to reverse the trends. I've seen the office towers in Shanghai for Maybelline, Buick, and VW. They rival anything in New York, Detroit, and Stuttgart.

My way is to accept humans will rise to the occasion not turn on each other like wounded rats. Please note if I'm wrong I've got a Jungle Carbine and a couple of Winchesters and stores to support them for awhile. My family will be armed but better gardners than shooters. There is room in my view for me remaining dangerous.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:07 pm

I don't think one needs to live in fear of the end of the world. I also think that Nat Geo is looking up the most extreme examples of "preppers" to make for better tv. Having said that, I also believe that the likelihood of something catastrophic happening in the near future is growing more and more likely with the current global economic and political situation. If something does happen, these people are going to be glad that they were paranoid, and the people that weren't are going to wish they were.

I'm not advocating that someone become obsessed and spend all their extra time and energy prepping for a disaster, but it is a good idea to have a plan and have some extras to hold you over as part of your plan.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:16 pm

+1 0n Canuck Bob. Extremist Nut jobs are the staple of reality tv and talk radio.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:19 pm

tman wrote:+1 0n Canuck Bob. Extremist Nut jobs are the staple of reality tv and talk radio.

I agree.

I also agree with a lot of what's been said. Being prepared is never a bad thing, but being obsessed is, well, obsessed. But, you can find that in anything. People who don't prepare enough and those that obsess.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:20 pm

[quote="Canuck Bob"If the power fails I'll join with my neighbors to solve things in a new way. Human survival is the goal not my survival. We really are a better race of creatures than some Hollywood visions would suggest. We don't have a history of roasting our young! Of all the prophets in history I'll stick with the one who chose sacrifice over armed insurrection. A very tough example to follow.

I do not wish to offend or challenge those with different views. Only to suggest there is more than one way to prepare for social collapse and that many scenarios are so unlikely as to be meaningless. Social collapse in history has been a slow and creeping thing over generations. The old gaurd of the west has already lost to the new gaurd in the east and we do nothing to reverse the trends. I've seen the office towers in Shanghai for Maybelline, Buick, and VW. They rival anything in New York, Detroit, and Stuttgart.

My way is to accept humans will rise to the occasion not turn on each other like wounded rats. Please note if I'm wrong I've got a Jungle Carbine and a couple of Winchesters and stores to support them for awhile. My family will be armed but better gardners than shooters. There is room in my view for me remaining dangerous.[/quote]

It is all well and good that you would want to join with your neighbors, and that would be a most effective scenario, but humans are humans, and your neighbors might not want to work with you. I know different communities vary in their closeness and camaraderie. Just look at NOLA and hurricane Katrina. It was total and utter chaos with looters and neighbors turning on one another. Look at the riots LA has had in the past. If you have supplies and have not worked out a plan with your neighbors beforehand, you will more likely be a target for them. In this self centered society we live in today, I'm afraid I don't share the same view of humanity that you do. I would, however, in a disaster situation, be willing to work with anyone that wanted to work with me in order to help each other out, but I'm not going to make my plan contingent on that scenario.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:24 pm

Canuck Bob wrote: I'm a bit tired of a lifetime of apocalyptic claims. Nuclear winter, numerous Second Comings, AIDS, Y2K, H1N1, Mayan castasrophies, Nostradomus melt downs, crashing Meteors, terrorism, Communism (now our trading partners!), Banking collapses, Global Warming and such. How did we ever survive long enough to get in this mess!

My way is to accept humans will rise to the occasion not turn on each other like wounded rats. Please note if I'm wrong I've got a Jungle Carbine and a couple of Winchesters and stores to support them for awhile. My family will be armed but better gardners than shooters. There is room in my view for me remaining dangerous.

John Michael Greer has a good book titled Apocalypse Not about Three Thousand Years of End of Times (That Never Happened). I enjoyed it. The Long Descent was god too.

I agree with the rise to the occasion.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:14 pm

Just found out NatGeo did another series on what happened to civilization. Link to the first part of the series (it's all on youtube) here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 847eC0CZy4

And yeah. Apocolyptic claims may be tiresome. But if you had talked to the Anasazi Indians in Chaco canyon and told them their magnificent city would collapse in just a few decades they may not have believed you either.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:09 pm

I like to have some stuff on hand but don't have a way to store huge amounts of things. I get a kick out of "preppers" and "greenies". What both groups are advocating for the most part is rural living.

For example, what do you need to have a "sustainable" compound? A house heated by wood, a well, a pond, chickens, cattle, a dog. You would need a hay barn and a garden. Sound like a high tech sustainable lifestyle?

It sounds like a small farm to me. My wife had a magazine once that on the cover had the story "Grow Your Own Food!" Imagine that! Scientists have discovered a way to grow your own food! Amazing!

Some people are so many generations removed from the farm that everything is new again to them.

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:08 am

Deleted.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:21 am

Dave wrote:I like to have some stuff on hand but don't have a way to store huge amounts of things. I get a kick out of "preppers" and "greenies". What both groups are advocating for the most part is rural living.

For example, what do you need to have a "sustainable" compound? A house heated by wood, a well, a pond, chickens, cattle, a dog. You would need a hay barn and a garden. Sound like a high tech sustainable lifestyle?

It sounds like a small farm to me. My wife had a magazine once that on the cover had the story "Grow Your Own Food!" Imagine that! Scientists have discovered a way to grow your own food! Amazing!

Some people are so many generations removed from the farm that everything is new again to them.

I watched the show ---- people living in abandoned looking barns with shipping containers all over the place was the first one that popped up ---- I gotta admit, i dont want to live like that ----

I'd rather do it peacefully like Dave alluded to --- As long as wildlife is sustainable, a decent pond will be a big help . a big garden and a way of preserving what you garden I would likely be limited to a fish based diet though, as my animal loving wife would quickly make pets out of any chickens on the property.
But here's the catch --- there will be no gardening or canning or any of that stuff if a little prepping beforehand is not taken --- seeds need to be stored, containers need to be purchased beforehand, -- plus, while the pond idea is nice, it only works if you have enough space for a pond. (i do but haven't dug one yet)

When i was a kid, stealing watermelons was almost a sport in the small Arkansas town i lived in as a teen ------ as a landowner, you have to take into consideration that too --- only it might not be teenagers coming for watermelons , it could be hungry, desperate people who failed to prepare. (thats where the firearms would possibly come into play)

Look at the brightside -- America's obesity problem would end within a year

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:00 am

My Grandparents lost everything in the depression.it took them 20years to get back on their feet. They were past 50 when they bought 3 acres on a river. built a house,garadge and barn mostly by hand. they had a huge garden,a big cold celler,chickens,Geese (for watch-dogs),rabbits and a pig every year. as a Kid in the late '50's it was the Garden of Eden. everything they did involved haveing enough food. fish and turtles from the river, even had two beehives...My Grandfather feared another depression as it would be alot worse than the last because modern people would never do without like people did in the '30's.

JB · Post by JB » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:08 am

My militia group does zombie response training weekly.

PaperPatch · Post by **PaperPatch** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:31 am

Well said Canuck Bob

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:51 pm

All well and good if only a handful of people survive. Imagine half of the population of NYC heading for the woods. In 2 days they would kill off all the game, foul the water and ravish the vegetation. A small farm would be quickly over run. Even if u are a 25 year old RAMBO, don't become sick or injured, even the flue in a weak or malnorished state could prove fatal. Life expectancy among the Pilgrims was 45 years. I'm betting the powers to be are too selfish to let it get that bad. They might have to wash their on car

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jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:23 pm

rimrock wrote:everything you consume, EVERYTHING, arrives locally by truck. Those trucks need to get to you locale about every three (3) days to provide resupply. That ain't gonna happen in a bad times scenario!!! There's only so many dogs and cats and birds and (god forbid) humans you can harvest as the stores run out out of food, so you move to rural. There's only so many edible animals in a given area. So, are you really prepared for the long haul?? If Obama is reelected, I feel sure handguns will be banned before the end of his 2nd term. Plan ahead if you believe that. Water is more important than food. What have you planned about water? Plans fail, but at least they give you a starting place.

rimrock

Uhh, I like these statements, cuz I got a question I always ask. When did they start shipping air by truck?

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:06 pm

tman wrote:All well and good if only a handful of people survive. Imagine half of the population of NYC heading for the woods. In 2 days they would kill off all the game, foul the water and ravish the vegetation. A small farm would be quickly over run. .

Your giving them far too much credit for being resourceful ---- couple of others have mentioned NOLA, where the locals just stayed put and cried and moaned about "the gummint forgot about us ! " -- and "Where is my debit card? "

If we are talking a disaster similar to that alluded to in Carmac Mcarthy's "The Road" --- a lot of the city dwellers are going to stay in the cities and try to make do

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:31 pm

The smart people will band together and survive. Sort of like in the old west where corrupt sherriffs whom, were owned by politicians and land barons were ousted by well armed citizens. Modern politicians who study history, know of the "empty stomach syndrome of the 1917 bolshevic revolution. They are too greedy and weak to let it get that bad. They will always give u just enough to survive and keep dangling the carrot in front of your face. Till I'm proven wrong, Stocking up on beer makes the most sense

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:03 pm

jeepnik wrote: Uhh, I like these statements, cuz I got a question I always ask. When did they start shipping air by truck?

Probably in the 1930s when the Fernez-Le Prieur diving apparatus was adopted by the French Navy although I'm not sure when truckers started hauling sailboat fuel. Might have been earlier.